A Visit to Canada
I bring to you a transcription of my conversation with a visitor to my country:
Alien Visitor (AV): Greetings!
Me: Welcome to Canada. You’ve arrived at an exciting time. We’re having a federal election.
AV: Ah, yes. I’ve heard of these. You’re picking your head of state.
Me: Nope.
AV: No?
Me: No. Would you like to know who our head of state is?
AV: Lay it on me, sister.
Me: The queen of England.
AV: Are you pulling my leg?
Me: Honest.
AV: How does that work?
Me: Well, we understand she’s busy, so the job is carried out by an appointed representative, who is called the Governor General.
AV: So she appoints the Governor General?
Me: Yes, but the person is picked by the Prime Minster.
Av: Okay. So your election, you’re picking the Prime Minster?
Me: Nope.
AV: Well, who are you picking then?
Me: A member of Parliament, also called a MP.
AV: And they select the Prime Minister?
Me: Not quite.
AV: I think I better sit down.
Me: Breathe into this paper bag, it’ll help.
AV: (After a few moments) Thanks. So, dare I ask who selects the Prime Minster?
Me: We’re not there yet. Hang on.
AV: (Weakly) There’s more?
Me: You can make it. See, there are political parties. Each party selects a leader. One of those leaders gets to be Prime Minster.
AV: How do they figure out which one?
Me: Well, that depends. If one party wins a majority of seats, their leader is the Prime Minster. But since no party can get a majority at the moment, generally, its the party with the most Members of Parliament, but it doesn’t have to be.
AV: It.... doesn’t have to be?
Me: Nope. If two smaller parties form a coalition, they can pick one of their leaders to be Prime Minister.
AV: Back up a bit. you said something about seats?
Me: Yes. Each MP gets to have a seat.
AV: So let me see if I have this right. You are voting for a member of Parliament, who may or may not get a chance to select the Prime Minster who appoints the Governor General, who acts for the Queen who is your head of state?
Me: On the nose.
AV: Are you sure this is supposed to be a democracy? I think I better go home. (Starts to walk away)
Me: Wait, I haven’t explained how a party dedicated to breaking up the country can become the Loyal Opposition !
Comments
I hates politics and
I hates politics and politicals and those who are described as "leaders". Doesn't matter what country, I hates them. All wanting to be the big frog in whatever little pond for the power, money, and self aggrandizement.
Worse yet, they are so psychotic as to think they know best and push their own (if they are mentally able to have an opinion) or their supporters (wannabe politicians but lacking the charisma) self important agendas on those they do not fit. The world would be so much better with people who can really think rather than react in knee jerk fashion to events created by other psychotic politicians.
The best we can do is try to elect those who we THINK and HOPE may do the least harm.
Sickening is it not.
CaroL
CaroL
Come on now, don't hold back
Tell us what you really think!
Democracy ?
Dear Dorothy,
that was very funny, but alas all true. I wish people would stop pretending that all the Politocracies in the World are democracies when they patently are not. I know of but two real democracies today: The Isle of Man, where The Queen is Head of State but everything is decided by all the inhabitants meeting on top of the tallest hill, standing in the rain, where anyone can suggest a subject to debate for a new law, and after a short discussion (they are all standing up and in the rain after all) THEY TAKE A VOTE BY SHOW OF HANDS then it becomes a new Law, if not it may not be raised again for some time.
The other one is the Canton of Graubunden in the Helvetic Federation (aka Switzerland) where they also meet together in the open air and decide things.
In both cases but particularly in the Isle of Man, where they have been doing this for over a thousand years already, they have already decided most things so do not need to meet more than a few days each year.
No "representatives" or MPs - who represent political parties not the people that are daft enough to vote for them - but real people deciding directly, THAT is Real Democracy !
Briar
Briar
Other Democracies
In most of Vermont, excepting the two largest cities, the form of government is the town meeting. No meeting outside in the rain, after all it's held in Winter. Instead everyone gets together in the town hall to make the decisions for the town for the year, and of course, a potluck for lunch.
I love Vermont because it's the best way to get out of the country without actualy crossing any borders.
Liz
A Visit to Canada
Sounds like a Comedy Of Errors
May Your Light Forever Shine
May Your Light Forever Shine
LOL!!!
[email protected] Unfortunately, this is one of the simplest explanations I've ever heard of a 'Representative Democracy'?
Would you care to explain what exactly we have here in the States? I've heard numerous explanations. All of which seem to have different names. None of which seem to ring true as to what actually happens and how it works.
I think 'Misnomers R US' explains it as well as anything else I've heard.
Let the mayhem begin!!!
Apologies in advance to Erin for what might ensue!;)
Love And Hugs To All,
Jonelle
[email protected]
Finally
At last an explication of Politics and Political Science that makes (non)sense as the actual behavior does. The explicit processes may differ here in the US but the sense is at least as reasonable (on good days). Thanks, Punkin
Joani
Dance, Love, and cook with joy and great abandon
Thank you for explaining this is proper political fashion.
In Australia they are fined $20Aus or more if they don't have a good excuse for not voting. Thus the elections in Australia are mandatory, which is not a democracy. The head of state for Australia is the Queen of England, represented by a Prime Minister.
This converstation may to some seem funny in the way it is presented but can be a nightmare for those living in those conditons. Thank you for sharing.
"With confidence and forbearance, we will have the strength to move forward."
Love & hugs,
Barbara
"If I have to be this girl in me, Then I have the right to be."
"With confidence and forbearance, we will have the strength to move forward."
Love & hugs,
Barbara
"If I have to be this girl in me, Then I have the right to be."
I've mentioned this before...
...the old saying? You know the definition of a democracy? Two foxes and a chicken deciding what to have for dinner?
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
Very amusing and quite
Very amusing and quite accurate. However, I do feel the need to say that she is not the Queen of England as there hasn't technically been one for almost 300 years, assuming I remember my history right. She is styled Queen of Canada in this context.
The Maple Crown
The Canadian head of state is the Queen of Canada, not the Queen of England. Sure, the current Queen of Canada is also the Queen of England, and lives in England, but that's incidental to her position as the Queen of Canada.
Incidental
[email protected] Okay, that's something I can relate to! As a musician, they show up quite often. No need for explanation, or the need to fit into any sort of music theory. They just 'are' because they fit or are the whim of the composer.;)
Thanks And Hugs,
Jonelle
[email protected]
I know she's the queen of Canada
but for this little story, I wanted to emphasize the fact she doesn't live here, or even visit very often, much less take care of business as the head of state.
Dorothycolleen
I dunno...
If you ask me, Canada has already got enough queens now without importing from some tiny island in the Atlantic! lol
>> Foxxe Wilder >>
Queen
I am unlucky enough to be english and for me I agree with the canadians and australians, what is the point of this monarchy. And don't get me started on this wedding on Friday, what makes them better than my daughter and her chosen man, nothing, so why all the fuss.
At least they are paying some taxes now instead of living on our handouts.
PS doesnt mean I like presidents, I consider us lucky the bushes and reagan never got us all killed.
Get me a nice dictator, at least you know where you stand.
Political Parties the Problem?
This system STARTED out as election of a local MAN (could that be part of the problem?) to represent the local area. That's what we still do here in Canada.Â
Originally there were no parties in the formal sense that we use the word today; just loose 'ad hoc' groupings of like opinion on a particular issue.Â
Here in Canada, we STILL don't have parties at the municipal level officially. (Yes, everyone knows that Rob Ford, mayor of Toronto, is a Conservative but I said OFFICIALLY -- he didn't run specifically as one.). Still, our cities and towns function pretty well on the whole.Â
So I think we should ELIMINATE POLITICAL PARTIES! Well, you say, how would you know who to vote for? Â A: You'd have to find out what each candidate thinks! Â Go to all-candidate meetings! Â Buy a newspaper and read what she says! Â Oh, you say, that's too much work! Â I'd rather just vote the way my father brought me up to vote! Â And you wonder why our governments don't do what we want them to? Â [Sigh!]
Yours from the Great White North,
Jenny Grier (Mrs.)
x
Yours from the Great White North,
Jenny Grier (Mrs.)
I like it
Great idea, Jenny!
politics
As I'm what's known as a civil servant I can't complain to mutch >falls of her chair laughing<
L1e
PS and I live in a a country that doesn't have a real gouvernement (is a 'caretaker' one at the moment) for almost a year now.
Civil servant?
That joke was not 'civil'?
But still true!
LOL
Rita
Age is an issue of mind over matter.
If you don't mind, it doesn't matter!
(Mark Twain)
LoL
Rita
Too Funny, Dorothy.
But... look at the bright side. We actually vote for our presidents
directly, so we don't even have that excuse. LOL.
Thank you for the laugh.
Sarah Lynn
Um, no, we don't
Actually, Americans vote for presidential electors. For most states (all but two), all the electors in the state are pledged to vote for the person whose electors got the most votes in the state. It has happened that particular electors have chosen not to do what they have pledged to do. There's no federal law against it and whether state laws apply has not been decided definitely one way or another.
It's not actually the system envisioned by the founders but rather a degeneration of that system based on practical politics. Direct election of presidents would require a Constitutional amendment.
There's always talk about eliminating the Electoral College (as it is called) but since it is actually the main institution preserving a two-party (as opposed to multi-party) system here, it ain't going to happen. Federalism also enters into it since the current system gives small states more voice in deciding who is president but makes big states even more important than they would be otherwise, a seeming contradiction that has to be worked out mathematically to prove it.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Of course, you realize.
We know, but he joke aside, I've often believed that our greatest protection
under the Constitution was confusion. As long as a few Americans are smart
enough to exercise the rights we were given to keep an eye on them, then both
the people and the government are confused.
Sarah
Funny thing is...
... you could do something similar for a European visiting the US. Or one explaining the role of the German president...
Democracy
Even though most Western countries are governed on the basis of Representative Democracy; What the electees are actually representing is the views of their political partys and are mostly voted in on that basis; as most people vote Party; not for or against issues.
Bread and Circuses: The Romans had it right 2000 years ago: nothing much changes.
The "new" system we are supposed to be having here in the UK, known as Alterntive Vote, as opposed to the current "First Past The Post" system is supported by the small parties not the big ones.
Basically its an attempt to power-grab by small parties who have little chance of gaining power under the current system. No guesses as to the stance of the Big partys?
I always tell my Candidates, when they can be bothered to visit their prospective constituency rather than spout soundbites on the TV or Radio, that the current system only works because most people vote against, rather than for, issues.
I always tell them that the person that will be elected is the least worst of the candidates standing as none of them are the best for the job.
They do NOT like that :-)
Cynical? me? surely not... :-)
As for the Queen as Head of State I think its a good thing.
It's Ironic that in the 21st century, the British People need to have someone to protect them from the excesses of Professional Politicians.
The power is still there; even though it is not wielded by "Custom" and "Tradition": and the British Armed Forces serve the Monarchy; not the State.
Alternative Vote
Here in Canada they called it the Single Transferable Vote and put it to a full, national referendum. It got killed.
Sorry, Elections Canada reports to parliament and you want THEM to be allowed to pick which candidate gets every vote?
talk about a recipe for corruption. [ even though we all know it is corrupted anyway ]
You know, the Canadian Forces don't take orders from the Prime Minister or Parliament either, they are under the command of the Governor General.
Stupidity is a capital offense. A summary not indictable.
Gerrour'ov 'ere Dot.
At least you get to elect your second chamber. We don' even get to do that! And our sums don't add up. In 1951 the labour party polled nearly a million and half more votes than the conservatives and they still lost.
Americans needen't smirk either, for they cant even do their sums either. Al Gore got 2 million votes more than Bush yet he still lost the election, how's that again!
What was that word again? Democracy???
Ho hum.
I'm gonna vote transgendered next time.
Bev.
Growing old disgracefully.
Bev for Boss!
I'll vote for that, thank goodness (TG).
Good luck Bev.
LoL
Rita
Age is an issue of mind over matter.
If you don't mind, it doesn't matter!
(Mark Twain)
LoL
Rita
Bev for Boss? Yes!
Bev's our gal!
Dorothycolleen
Political Process
I have come to the conclusion that the political process here in the US is designed to weed out the qualified candidates.
Michelle B
Canadian politics
For those unfamiliar with Canadian politics, the Queen is a figure head and does not have an impact on Canadian government. She is an anachronism as Dorothy Colleen has described. The primary difference between Canada and another "democratic country" such as the United States is that big business has less of an impact on swaying election results. For example, the New Democratic Party, a socialist party led by Jack Layton, has a chance to be the Official Opposition (by finishing with the second largest number of seats).
Members of the House of Commons are elected by the people. Generally, the Prime Minister is the leader of the party that has the greatest number of seats in the House of Commons.
Unfortunately, the members of the Senate are appointed by the Governor General on the advice of the Prime Minister. The PM usually fills empty Senate seats with party cronies. There are 105 seats in the Senate—all of them are filled by Conservatives and Liberals. Occasionally the Senate rejects bills passed by the House of Commons.
There is a need for reform to make Canada a true democracy. Eliminating the Queen (the Governor General is the Queen's representative) as the traditional head and getting rid of the Senate would be steps in the right direction.
An election inequity is shown by the party standings in the House of Commons where there are 305 seats. Canada has a population of over 32 million and 13.8 million adults voted in the 2008 election. Although the Green Party recorded 937,000 votes, 6.8% of the vote, the Green Party had no seats in the House of Commons. The New Democratic Party had 37 seats with 18.2% of the vote. The Bloc Quebecois held 49 seats, although they had only 10% of the votes, because the BQ voters are concentrated in the province of Quebec. The Liberals recorded 26.2% of the vote and held 77 seats. The Conservatives won 143 seats and 37.6% of the vote. Stephen Harper is the Conservative Party leader and the Prime Minister of Canada.
Nothing wrong with a Queen...
The Queen does, in fact, have real power and that power is constitutionally protected. In practice she leaves the actions to her representative mostly out of fear, I assume, of sparking a constitutional crisis. The Queen has down played her role over the last 50 years as a neutral, but observant, head of state. Some have come to erroneously believe that that is the way things just are. It is not.
While she does choose not to interfere there currently is nothing to prevent her from doing so. Personally, I think there is nothing wrong with a little pomp and circumstance in what is a relatively dry, uninteresting, and alienating field: politics. The problems that have arisen in our system are not because they were set up badly but because we have moved beyond how we use the system.
The Governor General originally appointed senators, now it's the Prime Minister. The Queen originally appointed Governors General, now it's the Prime Minister. Now the Prime Minister controls the Queen's power, the Senate, (with enough seats) the House of Commons, the cabinet, and can introduce (and pass) legislation.
If anything is wrong with our system it was the dramatic "Canadianisation" of it without considering the unexpected consequences it would bring. I.e. The increase to the Prime Minister's power. For the senate to work as it was originally intended the Prime Minister needs to lose the ability to stack the deck in his favour, so to speak. It was designed to be a "neutral second sobre thought" after a heated debate in the House of Commons. Obviously, it hasn't worked out that way.
The only thing that keeps the Prime Minister in line is the worry of a non-confidence vote or being replaced as party leader. Not a very comforting thought.
I hated civics class
Why? because i live in canada and even this outline is hard to understand rofl if only there was no such thing as political science, then everyone can rule there own world lol
With Love and Light, and Smiles so Bright!
Erin Amelia Fletcher
With Love and Light, and Smiles so Bright!
Erin Amelia Fletcher
translation
Seat (also known as an asshole)
Head (the top of that body with the asshole)
The party with the most assholes gets to utilize their head asshole!
Welcome to Canada, eh? :))
>> Foxxe Wilder >>
Almost The Perfect Description
Of the Australian way!
I'm a bit teed off with Erin, because she jumped in and pointed out the not so little discrepancies in the voting methods of the USA when some of our commentors were getting all hoity-toity and holier-than-thou about the supposed superiority of their system. I wanted to do it and she gazumped me.
BUT....We have one extra complication that none of you furriners have. We's got PREFERENTIAL VOTING.
That means you get to vote for who you really want to win in your constituency, but then, either knowing they can't win or not wanting someone else to win you can cast a second and third and even fourth vote....and....boy, doesn't that mess things up.
The counting keeps on going until a candidate gets 50% +1 vote and that can take weeks....and then you get the protests and the recounts. Hey, Florida ain't got nuthin' on us and we don't even have hanging chads (thank goodness. They can be painful).
So now we have a government that needs a couple of independents, bought with pork-barrel promises, and the Greens (who, strangely, don't mention any conservation policies, but want to boycott Israel) to make up for the lack of seats that they won in their own right.
Now....That's Democracy!
Joanne
The Aussie way...
As Joanne has said, we have preferential voting and our second vote is often more important than our first vote.
We get to vote in our Senate (House of Review). I don't understand the system (like most Aussies) but a senate candidate has to get enough votes to establish a quota that will win them a seat in the chamber.
Our head of state is the Queen ofAustralia (QEII), our Governor-General appointed by the Queen on the advice of our Prime Minister is Quentin Bryce, our State Governor in New South Wales appointed by the Queen on the advice of our State Premier is Marie Bashir and, until last month's election, our state Premier, elected by her parliamentary party, was Kristina Kenneally. Incidentally all women.
Our Government Leader is the person voted as leader by the party that wins the majority of seats at election. Federally this person is the Prime Minister. In the States it is the Premier and in the Territories it is the Chief Minister.
Not many of our seats are won by having a majority of primary votes. Many are determined by the second and sometimes the third preferences. The voting candidates can recommend their preferences in their electorate and hope that the voters will follow their suggestions. So in effect we vote out the government we don't want in this preferential system.
We also have, essentially, a two party system with the Labour party notionally on the left of the political spectrum and a coalition of the Liberals and Nationals on the right. There are other parties but they cannot change the fact that the two major parties will be government and opposition. As Joanne has said, we currently have a federal situation where we have a hung parliament with the balance of power being vested in the votes of three independents, two of whom are unlikely to see a second term in office.
Yes we have a mandatory voting system and I am proud to vote for the governmental structures we have in this country. I would still vote even if this were not so. Where would I get a moral right to criticise the government if I didn't show enough interest to vote in the first place.
And here endeth the Civics lesson... ;p
Robyn B
Sydney
Robyn B
Sydney
BWAHAHAHAHA!
As a Canadian I have to say that's the best and most brilliant way of explaining how our Government officials get elected.
Thanks for that laugh
thanks, Roth!
glad I could make you laugh.
hadn't read this one before.
you know, I've never read this before, but while I'm an American, I lived in BC for some time. Pretty good description.
Hugs!
Rosemary
thanks, Rose
huggles!