Blue for girls?

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Just read this on the BBC website:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7817496.stm

Anyone for blue and is all that pink really harmful?

Hugs
Sue

Comments

My elder daughter...

has ALWAYS been BLUE BLUE BLUE... When she had a choice, she would always pick blue over pink (still does 21 years later). I think she's come out pretty well too. :-)

It's too bad that colors have been so tightly associated with sex in the western world. *sighs*

Annette

Different strokes...

Puddintane's picture

Pink and Blue

These things are fads and afterthoughts, not settled fact, or even settled history. It's true that *some* have said that pink is an "exciting" colour, but that may well be why many, but not all, girls prefer it, although cultural expectations and marketing may have a little something to do with it as well.

Some have likewise attributed the popularity of blue for boys to the acquisition of the Blue Boy painting by Henry Edwards Huntington (the railroad magnate) in 1921, to the consternation of the British public, who raised a storm of protest over the sale of a British masterpiece to the wild colonials, and then, after a brief but highly publicised exhibition in New York City, it was shipped off to *California*, practically on the frontier of what passed for civilisation over there and probably surrounded by savage Red Indians.

Huntington actually had the infernal gall to buy the painting popularly known as "Pinkie" (also British) around the same time, nouveaux riche, you know, and displayed them side by side, where they became popular icons of young girlhood and boyhood respectively, so the taste for pink and blue, and their differing associations in the public mind, at least in the USA, are easy to explain without recourse to the psycho-babble of past centuries and the musings of newspaper columnists on deadline at a loss for a good idea.

The "controversy" has been aired many times in my lifetime, and is *old* news, "buzz buzz," as Hamlet put it way back when. They might as well have rescued the column from the newspaper morgue (the place they keep old clippings) as had someone write it again.

Maybe the columnist didn't tell them she was cribbing.

The Blue Boy (circa 1770) by Thomas Gainsborough

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Boy

Sarah Barrett Moulton: “Pinkie” (1794) by Thomas Lawrence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkie_(Lawrence_painting)

There's a link to "Pinkie" from the "Blue Boy" article, which may be more convenient since the Drupal software seems to have savaged the link containing parentheses.

Humans have a mania for categorising things, and will do so completely at random if objective criteria are absent, which is why "white" stands for *purity* in Europe and North America (not to forget the "Western" lands Down Under) and *death* in many bits of Asia.

The fact that these paintings exist, however, is a simple refutation of the idea that longstanding tradition has magically changed, and blue *does* show the inevitable dirt less readily than pink, so it may be that the "switch," if it ever really happened, and if the preferences claimed ever really existed, were for utilitarian reasons rather more than psychiatric interventions.

As for me, I like them both, and both look good on me, which is all that counts as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers,

Puddin'
----------------------
Pink is the navy blue of India.
--- Diana Vreeland

Picasso had his pink period
and his blue period. I am in
my blonde period right now.
--- Hugh Hefner

I've been in my "blonde period"
all my life, although I do
touch up the grey these days.
--- Puddin'

The official colours of the Middlesex County Cricket Club are pink and blue (forever), so the real question is: Are these men (and one woman) *all* transgendered?

http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/66/66_0_1226177005.jpg

http://www.artistquirk.com/pink-is-for-girls-blue-is-for-boys/

There is an extensive discussion of the topic at the above link, and rather more well-informed than the reaction to the article in the newspaper.

-

Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

What discussion?

I went to the artistquirk link, and I didn't see any discussion, just a bunch of photos of kids with their pink or blue stuff. My thought is that I never had that much stuff in my entire childhood! I'd have to blame the parents for all the "stuff" they have in such a monotone.

KJT


"Life is hard. It's harder when you're stupid."
Sir Charles Panther


"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin

I should have made clear...

Puddintane's picture

...that the discussion is in the responses well beneath the main article.

A particular example is the one that begins: "According to the website "Gender Specific Colours," it would seem that assigning colour to gender is mostly a 20th century trait. It would also seem that at one time, the colour associations were reversed when colour first came into use as a gender identifier."

This post links to other websites with *much* more information about the issue, or non-issue, and my original opinion stands: it was a slow news day; she had to say *something*.

Cheers,

Puddin'

-

Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

Won't argue that!

it was a slow news day; she had to say *something*

Seems most of these columnists go out of their way to fabricate something to be offended by. People with a real life don't have time to worry nonsense like this.

K


"Life is hard. It's harder when you're stupid."
Sir Charles Panther


"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin

I like both

I've got some lovely pastel pink tops, and a knit cowl-neck dress in electric blue that is just to die for! Paid too much for it, but I love the color. So where does that put me?

KJT


"Life is hard. It's harder when you're stupid."
Sir Charles Panther


"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin

Paintings

Until "Blue Boy" and "Pink Girl" were painted blue was the color for women and pink for men. Shortly after things began to reverse.

shalimar

Way I heard it

The English put forth the idea of pink for boys and blue for girls. The French, in their normal pigheaded way, had to reverse it so as not to be seen as agreeing with the English. And since the French are more renowned for fashion than the English are, the French choices prevailed. Dunno if that is true, but makes a nice story. :-)

KJT


"Life is hard. It's harder when you're stupid."
Sir Charles Panther


"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin

Cowboys in Pink

erin's picture

Pink and red were favorite colors for men's shirts in the Old West and women who wore those colors were sometimes suspected of trying to attract undue attention. Red still has some of that feeling. And purple and lavender were considered shades of gray and appropriate mourning colors in England in the Empire and Napoleonic eras.

The language of colors, like any language, changes. Nice used to mean "not very smart." :)

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Red Serge

I also guess that the cheap red serge jackets most of Britain's soldiers used for a lengthy period of time faded away to more of a pink than a red in not too long of period.

Pinkie by Thomas Lawence

erin's picture

Blue Boy and Pinkie were both painted in the late 1700s and it took more than a century for color language to reverse to align with the paintings, so I think their influence might have existed but had to be minor. Those paintings were particularly striking at the time in part because of the choice of colors. Also because they are just damn good, I've seen them; they're here in California about fifty miles from me.

The washed out pale pink in Pinkie was not the pink that boys often wore back then which was a deeper, bolder color like in Gainsborough's "Pink Boy".

I think the real culprit in the color shift was the fashion industry from pre-WWI through WWII who were busy tossing out old ideas. In the successful peace post-war, things froze in a new status quo in regard to colors for babies. Blue for girls and pink for boys was seen as old-fashioned and then wrong.

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Hardly short...

Puddintane's picture

since they were painted many years apart, and the Pink Boy mimics the styles of a hundred years before, well across the English Channel.

And how does all this fit with the claim that pink for boys and blue for girls was the rule more than either fifty or a hundred years later? Life was slower in those days, but not *that* much slower.

I suspect that people were cherry-picking their facts, to support a particular case based upon imperfect evidence, since none of us were alive at the time.

I well remember pink shirts for men in the Seventies, and countless exceptions to these general "rules." During my lifetime, girls wore blue dresses all the time, and might have one or two or none in pink, depending on their individual colouration. Some dull and conformist men might be stuck in blue and brown and black, but most women and girls in modern Western culture were *never* so narrow, not being quite the idiots most men are.

I can accept "pink" being used as a shorthand "code" by *some* to avoid having to answer constant inquires about "boy or girl" for newborns, but can remember babies dressed in yellow, green, violet, purple, red, white, puce, tan, brown, and the rest of the rainbow. People do what they want to do, and few of us have a lifetime subscription to some sort of cultural book of ettiquette that demands all that much of us.

This sounds to me to be much the same as "Men are tall" and "Women are short," but there are lots of women taller than most men, and lots of men shorter than most women.

Cheers,

Puddin'

-

Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

You're right, Puddin'

And there were a couple of years around 58-59 there that charcoal and pink were hot colors for teen guys, with dirty white bucks ( shoes )

yeah, I'm giving away my age a bot. I was a Freshman/Sophomore - This is my first month with Medicare

One of the most difficult things to give away is kindness.
It usually comes back to you.

Holly

One of the most difficult things to give away is kindness.
It usually comes back to you.

Holly

I remember them too...

Puddintane's picture

...along with poodle skirts, bobby sox, saddle shoes, and poofy petticoats. Some called them crinolines, but that's just ignorance talking, since anyone who'd read Gone with the Wind (or had seen the film) knew what crinolines were, and one could only see them in historic costume displays, even in the Fifties.

Puddin'
--------------------
A woman just shouldn't mess around
with a man's machinery.
--- Chief Mechanic's Mate Sam Tostin,
Operation Petticoat (1959)

-

Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

The Pink Boy

erin's picture

Here's a page on another Gainsborough painting: The Pink Boy.

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Red

Daphne Xu's picture

Color associations can change in one's lifetime. Earlier, "Red" meant "Communist". Now, it may have shifted to mean...

Pink, while still associated with girls, also was associated with Red. In this case, "Pink" meant "Communist Sympathizer".

And of course, at TVtropes.org, Real Men Wear Pink.

-- Daphne Xu (a page of contents)