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Comments
Twisty
Well this story certainly took a turn!
Uh-huh
Thanks for reading and writing. I like to write Swiss cheese stories, chock full of holes.
Wow!
I do not check back often... and suddenly (when I do) there is a chapter three?!!
As Promised
Magic. Big Closet makes posting a story very easy. Kudos to the administrators who keep the wheels greased. This is the last chapter that I will be posting. I was just trying this one out and hoping for some constructive criticism.
Another plug to Big Closet. If you liked the story I recently published here called Taylor, it is available for purchase on Amazon and all the monies go directly into this site’s coffers.
Didn’t expect that twist…….
And I hate where you took this. This is exactly my biggest fear - that one day my spouse will decide she wants a man and I will come home to find out that someone else has taken my place.
Yeah, this one left me sobbing.
First, the wife forges his signature on divorce papers and files them without his knowledge - and never tells him, even after it becomes final. Second she has obviously been seeing and sleeping with another man behind his back.
Now it becomes plain that her plan is to cuckold him by moving her new lover into her bed - and apparently is happy that her now-former husband has essentially locked himself in chastity and she apparently plans to keep him that way.
I could not bear the knowledge that the one woman I love had been, and plans to continue having sex with someone else. I could not live with that, and the fear of it happening haunts my thoughts and my dreams.
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
Point Of View
It’s interesting how you’ve interpreted this. I don’t see anyone forcing anyone into anything. Lovey voluntary started transitioning in secret. Why not be upfront with someone you love? Why live your true life only when your partner is away?
Lovey invented the denial game and voluntarily used the glue. Lovey was living her life out in secret.
But, Claire saw what was happening. She saw the deceit. She felt scorned. She got angry and admittedly went too far getting the divorce without concent.
I think they were both wrong.
Robert stepped in to console. And eventually that created a relationship outside a flawed marriage. But, I don’t think Robert pushed Lovey out.
They were both wrong and wronged.
But in the end, they were still in love and together. If I were to write more, Robert would not replace Lovey, but contribute. Lovey had been with men before so that would not be a hardship. Claire wanted Lovey to find happiness and blossom.
I saw a flawed relationship that had the potential for a happily ever after.
Unfortunately, I cannot agree.
Yes, what Lovey did was deceitful. What Claire did was worse - not only was it done out of spite and anger, but it was also deceitful and ILLEGAL. If she is so worried about her career then why do something that potentially could not only get her disbarred, but also sent to jail? Not to mention that if her career is worth more than her marriage, then the entire basis for the relationship is wrong from the very beginning.
I sacrificed my career more than once for my spouse and family.
If she knew what was going on, why didn’t she confront Lovey? What Lovey did was deceitful, but at least it is easier to understand. What Claire did was infinitely worse. She lied, she broke the law and violated her morals as an officer of the court, she continued to live in a relationship she had already destroyed while running into the arms of another man, she cheated on her spouse, and she obviously involved all of her co-workers in the whole deal.
Seriously, the argument that she was worried about her career is bogus. She only cared about two things - the fact that her spouse was not open and honest with her, and getting what she wanted from another man.
That’s not love - nor is where this relationship appears to be headed. Domination is not love, even if the person being dominated is a willing participant. Love is sharing. Love is mutual respect. There is none of that here, as is evidenced by what both of them did behind the other’s back, but especially by Claire. Notwithstanding the entire divorce, the fact that she came home early with her new lover shows a severe lack of respect.
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
okay, let's admit that you are right...
So when I wrote these three chapters, I was looking for feedback. And I love you for coming right out and speaking your mind. Obviously, the story needs reworking, which is fine.
It's going to only make it a better read.
thanks,
LM
PS: You and Stacy have inspired me to turn Portrait into a full novel...
Thank you for the lesson
Thank you for writing it in the first place…..
And thank you even more for being willing to listen to my comments.
I know that not everyone feels the same as me, as is evidenced by the many varying types of fiction here and other sites - but I do feel that if two people love each other they put the other person’s feelings before their own.
There is an abundance of forced fem stories online, and the fact that they keep showing up plainly illustrates that there is an audience for it. I know that many people believe that this is merely another way to express love. I do not agree. My personal opinion is that if you wish to continue in that vein, that you should drop the pretense of love and work the revenge or vengeance angle. Not that I like that idea, but it would work.
Either way, only a truly good author can stir the kind of emotion you have with this story.
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
Genre
I’m really enjoying our conversation and I went ahead and changed Chapter Three to reflect what you've said.
It’s strange how I never saw this story as cuckold, forced fem, or chastity. Is cuckold anytime three people engage together voluntarily? Is forced fem when someone dresses on their own voluntarily? Is denial and waiting for the partner to return chastity?
I thought forced fem, cuckold, and forced chastity were all objects of control and dominance. I never intended this story to have a cruel edge. Where did I go wrong?
Question for you - you describe love as being sacrifice. Couples remain married after a transgression. If your partner admits to having a six month affair, does the other person have the responsibility to forgive?
Help me out. I want to understand your point of view.
And what happens if Lovey transitions? If you take your vows as man and woman, what obligation does Claire have?
Revisions
I like the revised chapter - Claire is still being proactive in redefining their relationship, but now she's not risking being disbarred over forging documents.
constructive criticism
thank you! Feedback is wonderful and I am pleased that you enjoyed the revision. D.Eden has been so helpful in showing me another point of view. Really, everyone has been so kind.
I think hearing from people allows me to view the characters in a different light, too.
When I rewrite this in novel form, I'll have a third-person narrator and take the responsibility of telling the story away from Lovey. That way, we can also hear and see what the other characters are thinking. I think Claire and Robert both need to become more three-dimensional.
In response to your comments…….
1) My comment about forced fem had nothing to do with how Lovey has been feminizing herself, but rather about the implied fact that Claire was happy to keep her that way - even though she begged to be allowed to return to being Lowell.
2) My comment about cuckolding referred to her bringing another man home with her, a man she has obviously been having an affair with, and then her comment about the guest room only being needed if Lovey plans to use it. She obviously plans to sleep with Robert with the full knowledge of Lovey. That is pretty much the definition of cuckolding.
3) As to enforced chastity, that would follow in line with 1 and 2 - Claire plans on sleeping with Robert and not with Lovey, and seems fascinated with the idea that Lovey has sealed her penis away. The logical next step is easy to see.
Admittedly, part of this is conjecture - but all logical steps based on the original version.
The revised version still bothers me for the same original reasons. Both parties were deceitful, but Claire’s deceit is still much worse. Plus, she still had an affair while secretly beginning divorce proceedings. All you did was remove the illegality - the forged signature - but not the immorality. This is still a very painful story to read.
The thought of a spouse cheating on someone they supposedly love is still there, and still hurts. The planned secretive divorce while sleeping with another man rather than confronting your spouse is still there, and still hurts. The idea of flaunting that relationship in front of someone you are still married to and profess to have loved - perhaps still love - is still there, and still hurts.
This is still just another version of my worst nightmare, and still upsetting.
As for an obligation to forgive…….. well, that is one of those questions that can only be answered by the person in that situation. I can tell you that when I made my decision to transition after decades of marriage, and explained to my spouse that my decision was basically live or die, she chose love. Not right away - it took months, her asking me not to transition, my trying and failing at that, and a lot of heartache for all of us. We separated, nearly divorced, and then she realized that I was still the same person inside - still the person she loved. So we are still together, and neither one of us took solace in the arms of another. Because we love each other, and love is not something fleeting or simply physical. She forgave me my need to transition.
Yes, I have a recurring fear that she will wake up one day and realize she wants a man and not me - and that is what upsets me about this story. But I love only her, and I have faith and trust in her.
But the fear is still there.
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
thank you so very much
Thank you for taking the time to explain and share your point of view. I understand now how this short story hits too close to home.
I hear what you are saying and this is all on me. As a writer, I develop my characters more throughly inside my head. I need to go back and write more, so the reader will see what I was thinking but didn't put on paper.
Now, I understand how you see all those labels. But, that is far from my intent. I honestly can't see where forced fem would fit in, but see how all your interpretation could happen if the story went in that direction. But, that's not me. I would never write a story like that. It would be artificial and not from my heart.
We will have to differ about forced chastity, too. I see Lovey's begging to go back to being Lowell and using the solvent is more out of his inability to express his own needs. Maybe it's his fear of loosing Claire, but when he begs, he's begging for forgiveness. I see your perspective and will go back and change some of the dialogue in Chapter Three to reinforce what I didn't make clear.
And when Claire says no, not to hide yourself away as Lowell, I think it's her way of embracing Lovey. I thought Lovey made it clear that her arts and crafts project with the medical glue did not cause her discomfort or inability to achieve pleasure. I saw this as a step towards surgery not permanent chastity.
I am not defending Claire's affair. (Personally, I am monogamous but have learned to accept lovers who aren't.) Claire might be one of those people who thinks there's a big difference between love and sex.
And as far as Robert goes, I see him as a comforting shoulder to lean on and a loving friend to Claire.
And who knows, maybe Lovey can find her needs fufilled with a kind man like Robert.
If I were to redo this story into a novel, it would be more than a one-trick-pony.
Lovey could not comprehend
It took nearly to the end of the story before she got Claire. And what a twist, totally did not see that coming. Well done, right to the end.
>>> Kay
Thank You
Thanks for reading and writing. It was fun
Hidden
The hidden divorce struck a sour note for me. While it was wrong for him to transition without consulting his wife, it felt worse what she did in anger. In my mind, I can see no happy ending, eventually someone will be forced out and most likely it will be Lovey.
Sure
Thanks for reading and taking the time to write. I can see your point, but…Claire is a lawyer, heading for a partnership. Her career is important to her. Lovey creates a real schism in their relationship by transitioning in secret and plays it out for a year thinking he’s fooling the woman he loves.
In the meantime, Claire sees this and decides that Lovey has violated their trust. Feeling scorned, she files the papers. Later, she admits she was wrong. Even though Lovey never comes forward or admits his deceit, Claire still loves him. Honestly, what was Lovey thinking?
Claire seeks out comfort with Robert and eventually starts an affair. But, in the end, she is not leaving Lovey but wants to include her in her happiness. Claire never says she’s in love with Robert. Instead, she says, “You’re going to love Robert.”
I see Claire’s enthusiasm over Robert like a newly discovered ice cream flavor they will share.
And as far as Lovey being left behind, I see the reverse. Even when she is caught with her panties on, she is still having self doubts about her feelings about Claire. I think Lovey has to come to terms with her future. She’s doing more than flirting with cross-dressing. And how about the evening at the club? She fantasized about the club guys and the masseuse.
As I said earlier, l was just trying this story out and all these comments are wonderful to hear. POV is so important! Thanks for your help!
Exquisitely well-written
A delicious romp of a fantasy with those kernels of sharp flavor, like a kung-pao of a story.
Nice to see it here, Leslie.
There's room to expand. How is Robert going to take this? Has Claire been keeping Lovey under observation? Private detectives are the eyes and ears of law firms so it would not be a stretch at all. She may have known about the little romper even.
And Claire is a big girl! Lovey always got what she wanted, I'm sure this is not the first time she has been dominated by her powerful lover.
One of the measures of the richness of your writing here is the variety of how people read this story and the conclusions they drew about the characters. Everyone can read it from a different angle and get something else out of it.
I love happy endings so I have written one for myself mentally. I'll keep it there. But this is a prize story, not without flaws, but a gem.
What are you going to do next?
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Well...
Thank you for the compliment, Erin. That means a lot coming from you.
After reading your response, I am emboldened to think more about this tiny tale. I guess I can mull it over and come up with an outline for a novel. Then, you and I can compare your happy ending and maybe we can see how it all shakes out.
I like your thinking about Claire having a more controling hand, but I want to give Lovey a three-dimensional personality.
We can also have more dialog between Claire and Robert.
But, I'm wondering if I shouldn't start this story earlier and maybe when they meet. I can shorten up their marriage to twenty-four months. That way, the story would start from the beginning of their time together in that honeymoon love affair which would cement their marriage commitment which is going to be very important.
Just thinking.
Maybe I will hear more suggestions from the readers, too.