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by Saless
Chapter 92
Sarah felt dubious about what Erica was saying, but she couldn't argue with the love she felt through their bond. How are we talking from so far away? she thought instead.
I'm beginning to think that our bond isn't restricted by distance. Or not much, at least. Maybe we'll even be able to talk while I'm at Harvard? Erica mused.
Ooh, that would be nice! Sarah thought.
Yeah, but I still want you to visit. We can't do everything over the bond, after all! Erica said.
Sarah blushed at the images she was receiving. “You okay Sarah, you've gotten rather quiet?” Tiffany asked worriedly.
“Oh, sorry about that Tiffany, I was just talking to Erica.” Sarah replied.
Tiffany glanced over in surprise, “You can do that?!”
Sarah nodded, “Yes, apparently we can. That may make things a lot better when she goes back to school next week.”
“That's right, I'd forgotten about that. I'm glad you can keep in touch that way then. And you're planning on portalling out to visit her, right?” Tiffany said.
“Yes. I don't know how often I'll be able to visit, though. She was kept really busy with her classwork last semester.” Sarah said.
“Well I'm sure she'll be able to find some time for you. When does the semester end?” Tiffany asked, remembering that Sarah was talking about having their wedding in May.
“Early or mid May, I think. We might have to have the wedding in June, assuming we can do it this year at all.” Sarah replied.
“Why wouldn't you?” Tiffany asked curiously.
Sarah shrugged, “I don't know. But with everything that's going on, well, anything could happen.”
“Things have been kind of crazy.” Tiffany agreed. “But don't let that get in your way.”
“I may not have a choice.” Sarah replied.
“Maybe, but if you put it off every time things aren't ideal, you'll never get married. With magic getting stronger all the time, we can't really expect things to get any quieter in the future.” Tiffany said.
“What do you mean, magic getting stronger?” Kelly asked suspiciously.
Sarah and Tiffany were so surprised by Kelly's sudden outburst that they took a moment to reply. “Apparently magic was suppressed, or dormant or something, for a long time. Now it's coming back. Eventually everyone will have magical abilities like we do.” Tiffany said.
“Even me?” Kelly asked.
Tiffany glanced at Kelly in the mirror and said, “Sure.” Kelly was quiet again after that.
Tiffany was tense as she got out of the car at Sarah's apartment building. There's no going back now, he'll know I contacted them now that I'm going inside openly. I hope Mr. Keller knows what he's talking about. she thought as she followed Sarah to her apartment.
Erica was in the kitchen when they arrived, getting out what they'd need for dinner. “Hi guys, how was work?” she asked.
“Fine, how was your day?” Sarah replied.
“Not bad. I got the ball rolling on your name change. I also found out that there's a form you can use to change your name and gender on your driver's license, but you need a doctor's signature for it. I called my Dad and he put me in touch with a doctor who would be willing to sign it for you, after he talks to you. I went ahead and made an appointment, but I can cancel it if you want.” Erica said.
“What kind of doctor is it?” Sarah asked.
“A psychiatrist. I thought it would be helpful if you could get your driver's license before I leave, but the name change will take much too long. This would be a quick fix for that, if you want.” Erica replied worriedly.
Sarah sighed, “Okay, I guess that would help. Having ID with the right name on it would be helpful. I don't know if I could even use my driver's license right now, I look quite a bit different than I used to.”
“Yeah, you look like you're related to Sean, but you really don't look like you could be Sean. Though an awful lot of people don't seem to have any trouble believing it, anyway.” Erica said.
“I guess Venus did a good job with that curse. Good thing you wanted to be a girl anyway!” Tiffany said.
“Somehow I doubt Mike would have handled it very well if you hadn't jumped in front of him.” Erica agreed.
“What?!” Kelly exclaimed, startling everyone.
“I just said that Mike wouldn't have handled being a girl as well.” Erica said, confused as to why Kelly was so interested all of the sudden.
“No, you said that Sarah jumped in front of Mike! What did you mean by that?!” Kelly replied.
“Just what I said. They were running back through the portal to get away from Venus when she got angry. Jill was already through, and Mike was about to go through when Venus tried to blast him with her curse. Sarah jumped in front of him and got blasted instead and they were both knocked through the portal by the blast.” Erica said. “You'd know that if you'd stuck around when we were telling Mary all this.”
“Sarah did that?! She must have known what was going to happen then, somehow, right?” Kelly said with a strange intensity.
Sarah shook her head, unconsciously backing away from her, “No, I thought I was going to die.”
Kelly looked at her intently for a long moment and then said, “You really did?” Sarah nodded. “I can't believe it!” she muttered.
“Tiffany, why don't you and Sarah get started on dinner. I want to talk to Kelly for a minute.” Erica said. Sarah looked worriedly at her, but Erica smiled and thought, I'm not going to hurt her, just talk to her. Relax! Sarah nodded and she and Tiffany got to work while Erica led Kelly back to the living room.
“Okay, Kelly, you and I need to talk. You were scaring Sarah in there! What's going on?!” Erica demanded.
Kelly didn't seem to have heard her and she dropped onto the couch, still muttering, “I can't believe it!”
Erica sat next to her and grabbed her shoulders, turning her towards her. “Can't believe what?!” she growled.
Kelly shook her head as if to clear it and looked up at Erica. “Sorry, what were you saying?” she asked sheepishly.
“I said, what's going on?! You were scaring Sarah!” Erica said in a near shout.
Kelly ducked her head, “I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. I just couldn't believe that Sean would do something like that. I always thought he was too much of a coward to sacrifice himself for someone else like that.”
“That's Sarah!” Erica growled.
“But she was Sean at the time it happened...” Kelly protested.
“No! She was always Sarah! That's the whole point! Sean was just a mask she wore to please you and your wife, and everyone else, for that matter. She was always a girl.” Erica replied.
“But you want to marry her.” Kelly stated.
“Yes.” Erica said.
“So you're a lesbian?” Kelly asked. She looked confused with the whole conversation.
“No. Yes, I don't know! I was never attracted to girls before, but I am to her. I don't know what I am! But what does it really matter? I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her. And she feels the same way. Isn't that what's important?” Erica said.
Kelly seemed conflicted as she said, “But it's a sin to change your body or to be with someone of the same gender as yourself.”
Erica rolled her eyes, “I should have known you'd bring religion into this. It's always the same thing! Instead of coming up with a logical argument for why something shouldn't be, you just say it's a sin! Or that it's written in the bible, so it must be true! Can't you think for yourself?!”
Kelly bristled at that, “Of course I can think for myself!”
“Oh really? Then tell me why it's a bad thing for two people of the same gender to be together? Without using the bible!” Erica said.
Kelly seemed at a loss for a moment and then said, “You can't have children!” triumphantly, like she'd just found the answer.
“Oh, what a surprise!” Erica said with a grin. “The old procreation argument! Tell me something Kelly, do we have a shortage of people?”
“Uh, no.” Kelly replied, confused.
“In actual fact, don't we have a surplus of people? Don't we have an overpopulation problem on this planet?” Erica asked.
To Be Continued…
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Comments
A note of order here.
Having once tried to be a religious bigot, I now see religious bigots as those who pretend to believe in God. In actuality, they are trying to make themselves like God so they can judge others. The Shatun committed the first sin in that he swore to be like the most high.
I just don't want to confuse those who love God with those who torment us and anyone different.
Khadija
Religious bigots
Did you really try to be a bigot, or did you simply agree with what you were told? There is a big difference.
Your past and current religions have associated with them a number of rules. If you are sincere in your beliefs, you follow those rules. That isn't bigotry -- it's faith and conviction.
Bigotry starts when you reject the person because of the sin. When you see the person as irredeemable and treat him/her as such, you become a bigot. If, on the other hand, you pray for the person and only give your opinion when it's asked for -- and you do it gently and without condemnation, you are faithfully trying to do God's will.
I know that you have good reason to be sensitive about the subject. If I were to meet your former church or your family, I might break one of my own rules and have some harsh words for them. They did not exemplify God's love. They acted just like the Scribes and Pharisees that Jesus had such harsh words for in the Gospel. In short, they are hypocrites who failed to follow both the spirit and the letter of Christ's commands.
And yet, if they search hard, they can find justification for what they did in Paul's letters. Using the Bible as a source of justification instead of a source of enlightenment can do that. If they really look at the text that gives them the justification, and keep it in context, they will find that what they did fails to match the spirit of the text.
Not to mention the fact that your gender dysphoria and its attempted cure are not sinful.
That looks like one
argument that Kerry is going too lose, Even after seeing Sarah and Erica together, Kelly is still unable to accept that no matter what sex Sarah is now, Erica wants to be with her, And to use religion as an argument against them being together, Just will not work.... And has Kerry also forgot what Erica is studying for at Harvard?
Kirri
It's a conspiracy, isn't it?
First John with his Susan stuff (and occasional Fred), and now you're calling Kelly Kerry! You're all out to change my character's names around and confuse me, that's what it is! ;)
Ironically, I wasn't trying to make Erica's arguments sound lawyerly. But when I was looking over it I realized it really did sound like something a lawyer would say (In my admittedly limited experience). Either I'm hearing Erica really well, or I just got really lucky!
Saless
"But it is also tradition that times *must* and always do change, my friend." - Eddie Murphy, Coming To America
Kelly ,Kerry!
Well it was close!!!
Kirri
Kerry is the New Fred?
Close?
Now Kekky, ke;;y, krlly and such I could see but Kerry? L and R are way across the keybord on a qwerty machine.
--snicker--
Saless, what can I say but you caught us fair and square. There is a plot to confuse you.
Would we lie?
Sincerely
Susan in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
Thanks for fessing up,
Thanks for fessing up, Susan! ;)
Saless
"But it is also tradition that times *must* and always do change, my friend." - Eddie Murphy, Coming To America
Not Susan...
Joanie
It wasn't me I swear!
John's cats sent that one.
I'm innocent I tells yah!
Joanie
What's going on here? Who's all messing with my computer?
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
A new chapter! Yay!
I have a strong feeling that for now Tiffany's open entering Sarah's home is unnoticed, with the whole magic abound thing Marvin has to deal with at the moment.
Kelly has finally started to come around and assert herself... only to butt right into a lawyer! Erica's going to make Kelly's head spin quite a lot, that's for sure! Besides, Erica has a trump card on the argument: "Look at you. What do you see? Do you really think we can't have our own children if we decide we really want to?"
Faraway
Faraway
Big Closet Top Shelf
Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!
Religious arguments
As a strong Christian, I have had to deal with some cognitive dissonance about a few issues. Fancying myself as an intelligent and rational individual, I did some studying. That became doubly necessary when my youngest son started showing interest in girly things, and saying that he is a girl inside. (Time will tell with that one, by the way -- but I'm behind him/her all the way.)
First of all, the easy stuff. There is at least one place in the Old Testament that speaks against two men laying together as a man and woman. Also, in Romans, there is mention of people who actively defy god, so he gave them over to their own desires.
The OT stuff is in the same set of books (the books of the Law) that forbid things like eating certain foods, wearing wool and linen at the same time, and a whole bunch of other stuff that looks like it came from a compilation of silly laws that are still on the books.
The New Testament speaks poorly of legalism, Pharisees laying heavy burdens upon others, and people formerly bound by the Law expecting Gentile Christians to uphold the Law. "There is no value in circumcision or uncircumcision." (Paul's letter to the Galatians -- read it, it's short.)
Still, there are many people who pick and choose which parts of the Law that they need to follow -- and, much worse, which parts that they expect others to follow.
Paul tells us (in Galatians) that if we are following the Spirit, we are not under the law. This is not a blank check to do what we want, but it does tell us that there are a number of parts of the Law that are no longer necessary for Christians. (Please note, none of this commentary has much to do with Judaism or Islam.)
I'll stick my neck out and give my own opinion -- one that is the result of some study and consideration:
The idea of two men in bed still gives me the heebie-jeebies, but I absolutely will not judge them for it. After all, before I reached puberty, the thought of what my mom and dad had to do to produce me gave me the heebie-jeebies. I won't take my natural (fleshly) feelings and try to justify them by interpreting the Bible the way I want.
There is absolutely no mention in the Bible of lesbians. None at all. (Also, the thought doesn't bother me. In fact, if I ended up running into the SRU wizard or the Bikini Beach grandma, I would probably be a lesbian.)
The Bible says nothing about trans-gender issues. The closest it comes is a prohibition against cross dressing -- not too many verses from the prohibition against wearing wool and linen at the same time.
Kelly needs to stop taking the teachings of his preacher as absolute fact and read the Bible herself. She might just become enlightened.
Not All Christians Are Bigots
Just the narrow minded ones
May Your Light Forever Shine
May Your Light Forever Shine
Not all Christians are Christians
Our society has replaced protestant with Christian. Those who spew the word about people going to hell first need to recoegnize that Jesus condemned no one to Hell, he taught about love and acceptance.
Isaiah 55 clearly tells us that God's ways are not outr ways and God'd thoughts are not our thoughts.
The Bible tells us we must be born again to enter into heaven, Jesus told Nickodemas(sp)
it must be so in John Chapter three, he went on to tell us in John 3:16 "that God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son and that who so ever believeth in him shall have everlasting life.
Too many in the Transgendered community have been hurt by the zealot Christians. Enough so that many have sought out paganism or have become aethiest to avoid Christianity because those who claim to be Christians are so vile.
Not all Christians are vile. I just went back to the church that asked me to leave because I was intersexed. now that they have met me as the person I am they have accepted me, all except one lady, but then she has to live with denying me.
Jesus did not come to save those who thought they were righteous he came to heal the sick and lame and save those who needed salvation.
I am a born again Christian and I write stories on Big Closet Top Shelf. What i don't do is condemn someone for their beliefs. I do pray for each of you, and I do my best to be me and not shove my Christianity down your throat. God wants me to plant the seed and he will nurture it so it grows.
Jill Micayla
May you have a wonderful today and a better tomorrow
Jill Micayla
Be kinder than necessary,Because everyone you meet
Is fighting some kind of battle.
Great installment!
I like your ending conversation between Erica and Kelly. Erica makes more sense than Kelly. It does highlight an issue that brings my blood to a boil: Institutionalized Religious Intolerance toward anyone.
I guess it's time to blow the whistle on religions. I see it in the comments. There are certain bogus assumptions taking place. Many of these assumptions are ingrained in our culture. It riles me to see people using God, through religious doctrine, as a medium for bigotry, hate and intolerance, all methods of separating people. The spirit of my God only has acceptance and compassion and wants to unify, not separate and destroy people.
1. Untruth ONE: Believing in God is having religion. Please use the intelligence you were born with. If God exists, there can be only one or it isn't God. God had to existed before religion existed. As religion did not create God, many religions would like you to believe they did though. God can exist just fine without religion. If God exists, God existed before religion, God exists with religion and God will exist after religion kills every one. God is on the side of Life.
2. Untruth TWO: There is one true religion. Religions exist only to help people within a culture to find a way to relate to God within the context of their cultures. Religions are culture centered. They use mysteries and Faith to explain discrepancies between reality and belief. If there is a one true religion, it must be Judaism. The fact that there are any Jews alive after 6000 years of persecution and extinction efforts lends credence to this. If I were ever embrace religion, I'd choose Judaism, but as a confirmed religious anarchist, it won't happen.
There is mention in the Bible of the Faces of God. I believe that there is no one Face Of God, but there are infinite faces, one for every one who was, does and will exist. This adds another nail to the one religion lie. While the process of enlightenment is the same for every one, how each one of us motivated and navigates that process is different. What brings me to closer to who I am may mean absolutely nothing to you. This means no one can judge rightness for any one else. Essentially, I see a unique "religion" for everyone of the 7-6 billion people in existence.
3. Untruth THREE: Religious doctrine is more important than people. It is only more important when looking at the survival of the religious institution, not for the good of the believers. Religions capitalize on one's need to belong. (See Abraham Mazlow's Hierarchy of Needs). Once people become conscious of their existence, they develop a need to belong, a tribal instinct. The first tier in this hierarchy is belonging, then economic security and finally self actualization.
Using organizational psychology (group dynamics/behavior,)there are different ways to create a sense of group membership. One way to create belonging is to create a system of shared beliefs, the basis of religions. There is the lemming argument. "This can't be wrong, a billion other people think its right". The Christ encountered this with the Pharisees. He was sacrificed because he did not conform to their beliefs on how the prophecies should be fulfilled. Much like the conservative religious thinking of our time. There are none more unrighteous than the self-righteous.
Another way is to create a common enemy. We see this coming together in the allied efforts of the World Wars. Extremists, whether Christian or Islamic or other, use this tool to unite followers to perform outrageous deeds by dehumanizing their targets. The focus is on 'The Great Satan' or other hated images like gays, the trans-gendered, liberals, decadence, etc. It is a dehumanizing process. Attaching labels to groups and people and name calling is how this manifests in our daily lives. People become labels and are no longer thought of as human. It separates 'US' from 'THEM'. It is easier for us to attack 'them' than ourselves. It is the easy way out. Please keep it in mind when you 'Label' someone. They are still, however tenuous, a member of the human race.
The preceding is my belief and I hope it was enlightening. Like all beliefs it is absolutely true, except when it isn't.
Hugs,
Trish-Ann
~There is no reality, only perception~
PS: Nowhere in my Bible does it say, "do unto others as you would have others do unto you, except if ..."
Or "Who so ever believeth in Him shall not perish, except if...."
Or "Love thy neighbor as thy self, except if...."
My Bible must have missed the attached conditionals.
It does say in the Bible (I paraphrase) that you can do anything you want but not every thing will get you where you want to go(...does not edify.) I believe in a religion of thou shalts, not one of thou shalt nots. Principles, like respect for life, our environment and the rights of others, are needed not laws. After all, when when there was only one law " don't eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" we broke it. We broke the 10 commandments. Today there are literally millions of laws and we break them. Duh! Laws don't work. Romans 2:11 states sin gets its power from the law.
It also states in Romans that "the Word without the Spirit of God is Death." Many of today's doctrines are based on hate not love and compassion.
Maybe we should change our perspective on the Bible and other religious texts and look at them as handbooks for self development. After all if we become the best we can be in a positive sense then we will be of most value to ourselves, our families and our communities. Unfortunately, what seems to be emphasized in the Bible today are the meaningless miscellaneous stuff that fosters bigotry, hate and intolerance, but it sells.
Hugs,
Trish Ann
~There is no reality, only perception~
Religious Anarchy
I like that description :)
Even more so than what he is reputed to have said [1] is who he hung out with. No decent, self-respecting Jew of the time would hang out with the unclean, tax collectors [2], lepers, blind people, children, women, Samaritans, or any other societal outcast. According to biblical accounts Jesus spent a fair amount of time hanging out with these - and even had a tax collector in his 'inner circle'. Not to mention several women (other than the wives of the 'inner circle'!) who were also very close friends - e.g. Martha and Mary.
-oOo-
Generally speaking, there's probably a fair amount of decent guidance and morality in most sacred books (e.g. Bible, Koran), but people should be allowed sufficient help / guidance to work out for themselves how the messages in the texts translate / relate to them in their lives [3], rather than blindly swallow whatever their local religious leader preaches. After all, even a cursory glance at the "10 Commandments" should reveal that they're guidance, not diktat (otherwise everybody who'd ever lived would be doomed to hell for breaching the 'falsehoods' one...)
-oOo-
[1] Not necessarily what's written in The Bible. For a start, John's gospel has Jesus presenting a completely different image of himself to the synoptics - actively asserting his divinity, whereas the synoptics only use "Son of man" (which could apply to anyone) and "Son of God" (which when used in any other context denotes a religious/holy person). Then apparently the notion of "truth" at the time was something that could be backed up by prophecy (which of course those in the know could exploit - either people deliberately setting out to fulfil prophecies or writers 'making' them fulfil them) - whether it actually happened or not was irrelevant as long as it got the message across.
[2] Funny how they've always been so despised... if you had a friend who worked for the Inland Revenue, would you share that with other friends / acquaintences etc?
[3] And you don't necessarily need to study theology (or even live with / type up course notes for someone studying it!) to work out differences between society then and now, and to realise that not every bit of practical guidance issued then should necessarily apply now!
[4] Oh dear, I've got back into an old habit - over-using footnotes in comments. [5]
[5] And that one was unreferenced. Even worse!
--Ben
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
Becoming Jaded on Religion
While I am not going to give up my root faith in Islam, I will be taking a lot more salt on some of it. Oh, I't still dress modestly, but inside I want to be a stripper. I'll still cover my hair, but because wigs irritate my scalp and not by the order of some bozo who may well be bald himself.
I'll do for my creator what he wants me to do and not because of some man who can only think of sex.
Khadija
I am well and truly WOWED !
You have said it far better than I ever could.
Even in Islam, the same basic principles as christianity are espoused but then men ad all the rules. Just like christianity, there are a glut of rulings called Fatwas and Hadiths that seem to delude the orgiginal ideas that I started with.
After a dozen christian denominations and Islam, I have become disillusioned, not with God, or Allah SWT but with man's ability to manage his own life. I hope that at the end of disillusionment comes true knowlege of our creator, for it is he who I really wish to know.
I don't actually know if the problem is Psychological in that we have "control freaks" trying to make their own out of control world managable, or if it is the influence of The Shatun, (Satan) merely trying to torment us, or if it is the Yin/Yang thing or if we are simply the statistical victims of special causes of variation.
Many blessings
Khadija
Control freaks and religion
If you are a control freak, organized religion is a perfect way to gain that control. After all, if you are careful, you can make just about any claim you want and, since it is 'backed up by God,' or 'the result of divine inspiration,' none of your flock dare to contradict you. If they do, the rest will turn on them.
I recall reading a book called The Rhinoceros Success Book, which posits that you have to have a thick hide and a determination to put your head down and run if you want to be successful. The rest of the herd are referred to as cows. (Certain institutional leaders are referred to as 'supercows.')
Most of the 'movers and shakers' agree that most of humanity is content to watch television, follow the herd, and swallow whatever they are told (in the pulpit, by the politicians, by the news media, and by the herd -- I mean by their friends.) That makes it easy for someone who is able to put on an air of authority to mislead people.
With religion, though, you are actively encouraged to follow 'the truth,' and ruthlessly stamp on any thoughts that stray. That caused me some problems in the past, but I have long since accepted the fact that God gave me a brain and He expects me to use it. The truth is, He is a whole lot more interested in what's in my heart than what's in my head -- a rather tough thing to swallow for someone who fancied himself as a kind of 'Mister Spock.'
While some forms of historical Christianity considered the Bible to be something that could only be interpreted by the initiates, all modern denominations that I know about recommend that you read the Bible. Every service I have ever attended has a Bible reading. Every sanctuary I have ever entered has Bibles in the pews (or seats.) Most sermons I have heard were sprinkled with Bible readings, and the pastor recommended that we read along.
There is one offshoot of Christianity that discourages independent thinking, though they still use the Bible (their own private translation.) I won't tell you who they are except that they have a tendency to go door to door. ;-) (I had fun with them once by insisting that Jesus is God. I got called a heretic for my trouble.)
I am happy to see that a lot of the people here have well thought-out positions on spiritual issues, and tend to not follow the herd. That isn't too surprising, since many of us have been kicked out of the herd -- or are in stealth mode to keep from being booted. It also seems that the people here are a notch or two above average in intelligence, and are just rebellious (I mean independent) enough to think things out rather than taking the path of the cow.
I hold the common belief that there is one God in the universe, and that love is very central to God's being. I have a somewhat less common belief that if anyone calles out to the God of the universe, they will get an answer -- whether they get his name right or not.
If you're looking for a god of hate or intolerance, however, you are barking up the wrong tree.
Hot Buttons!!!!!
I must say that your little excursion into the world of the religious right seems to have virtually abused some hot buttons on the subject. And, those with these hot buttons seem to be very well read and intellectually thoughtful on the subject.
Yaaayyyy
Khadija
Zealots and fundamentalists
Please forgive me but aren't the words Zealot or Fundamentalist incompatible with the words Christian or Muslim?
Persephone
Persephone
Non sum qualis eram
Wow! & you said no one ever comments about your stories, Saless
--WINK--
--snicker--
Okay,
now that we have THAT -- the stuff about religion(s) and the good aspects of it VS people who use it as a smokescreen or a crutch to justify any and all as their whim suits them -- all out of our systems, what will happen to ex-daddy dearest?
Whether it is from his upbringing, his blind following of what he was taught about men, women and religion or that he's a self made jerk that has made him the hateful man he appears, things are coming to a head with him, well her now. Her reaction to being told everyone on Earth will have access to magic soon was interesting. Was she worried, thoughtful or hoping it would bring her revenge?
Let's all take a calm cleansing breath .. In ...out ... Better now?
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
Huh, wha? Oh, you're
Huh, wha? Oh, you're talking about the story now? ~_^
Saless
"But it is also tradition that times *must* and always do change, my friend." - Eddie Murphy, Coming To America
Mind what you say...
Or Saless will start absorbing Angharad's world view and declaring the comments more interesting / readable than the story!
She's already learning the subtle art (again, inherited from Angharad) of forcing us to hang off cliffs...
--Ben
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
Cliff Hangers, etc.
I think Saless has already adopted Bonzi's, oh I'm sorry that's Angharad's, trick of mining the comments for additional ways to torture her readers.
Michelle B
Laws and religion
In my opinion the "laws" offered to us by religion are simply things that were considered to be a good idea by people in power at the time. However, since humans tend to ignore human laws when they think they can get away with it, they decided to claim those laws came from God. After all, it's fairly easy to make most people belief in things that a critical and rational person would reject. Remember that education used to be very poorly and even today a countries educational level tends to be the inverse of its "religious" level.
Originally, many of those laws were actually for the good of the people. For example: the law that says not to eat pork (or meat from any predator for that matter) helps preventing diseases. One of those that is important for a lot of people here, the one that forbids a man to dress as a woman, was originally meant to prevent men to use this to commit adultery. However, laws can get really twisted when people start looking at the letter of the law instead of the spirit.
Sadly, since this technique was such a success when used originally, it's been copied a lot by people with a lot less honnest goals. The most recent of those people are usually called sect leaders.
As a final word, in spite of what you might think now, I do believe in the existance of a higher being. However, I don't have much tolerance for people who claim to speak on its behalf.
Hugs,
Kimby
Hugs,
Kimby
bibical laws
There have been various suggestions about the injunction against wearing womens clothes in the Bible.
One is that given the time, the Israelites used compulsory conscription to fill the ranks of their armies, taking young men for the purpose since, as is recognized by our own military, 'get them young and you can train them easier'. Of course, there was a religio-political component as well. In that time, a man's sons were expected to take care of him in his old age, so the more the better, and they wanted to protect them from military service where they might be killed. The sons (unlike girls)did represent a very real economic resource since 1) they could work the flocks and land and the more sons, the potentially more rich the family would be, and 2) they could marry and bring dowry into the family. So a man's sons were doubly important. A girl's marriage was a drain on the family, so the best match with a more wealthy family was desired since reciprocal arrangements might bring wealth to the family still.
Lacking accurate census at the time, it seems that one way to dodge the conscriptors when they came 'round was to have the younger sons dressed in women's clothes so they would be overlooked. The military folks and priest/kings did not have any greater sense of humor then than they do now, and so the injunction against the crossdressing -- to avoid compulsory military service. The penalties theoretically could have been as harsh as stoning, but usually just were taking the son and destroying or stealing some property.
In the same chapter, were the prohibitions against wearing clothing of mixed sources. When people cite the bible for an excuse to condemn CDs, they never notice that they are wearing polyester/silk or wool/cotton blends, that were just as much against those laws as CDing. Why that particular injunction? A weaver could extend the more valuable resources such as wool or cotton by adding less durable vegetable fibers resulting in a lesser fabric than advertised. Thus, the prohibition was a kind of early quality control over weavers and those that bought the lesser fabrics and clothing. Kinda like today's corporations objecting to lesser quality products that mimic their own. The more things change, the more they stay the same, eh.
As for the existence of some higher power that watches over all things, well if so he is not doing a very good job. If such exists, we seem to be the after dinner entertainment. It is sad to me that more people cleave to superstition, taking on faith the existence of the supernatural, angels, deamons, devils, ghosts, lost souls and witches, than have any understanding of the wonders of the basis of the mechanics of evolution (genetics, the same little bits that allow people to tinker with dogs, cattle, horses, chickens and sheep), for example. It's a crying shame!!!
CaroL
CaroL
Faith Vs. Religion...
I suppose it comes down to whose church one belongs to...the church of men...or the church of God? The church of men has exclusionary clauses. The church of God is all around us and preaches love, tolerance, forgiveness, mercy, faith and all the other stuff missing from the church of men. BTW...if you decide you're with the church of men...don't forget your donation. :D
May We All Have Faith...
Kelly...the Heretic
You may know me
I'm not a minister(currently), nor do I play one on TV. Just my perspective. I love Kelly; she loves me; God loves Kelly; God loves me; We love you; God loves you. Pretty cool, yes?
Love, Andrea Lena