Chapter 4 - A New Look

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Link: The Road to Hell Title Page and Description

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Josh came down the next morning, showered, clean, ready for school, and completely empty of feelings. He'd cried himself to sleep, awoke late in the night, cried himself back to sleep, and finally woke up again shortly before his alarm was set to go off. Emotionally drained, he knew that his parents would be full of questions for which he had no answers.

"Good morning, sweetheart!" Melanie sang hopefully, but her smile died when she saw Josh's reaction, or in his case, the lack thereof.

"Good morning, Mom." he stated flatly as he sat at the table. His breakfast was already served, which was odd for a school day as he usually had to serve himself.

Sitting in the chair next to her son, she ran her fingers through his hair. "I think this weekend I'll take you down to the salon. How does that sound?"

Stopping in the middle of taking a bite, he glared at his mother. It sounds perfectly awful mother! I'd rather see Dad's barber like normal! Maybe get a buzz-cut? Knowing he was trapped in a net he helped sew himself into, he simply shrugged his shoulders emptily.

"I guess you just aren't feeling very nice today." she commented. "I see you're still wearing your camp clothes. You don't have to, sweetie! You could go up and change into any outfit you like!" Suddenly very conscious that she'd tried to push for Josh's first time out too soon, she backtracked and tried to undo any potential damage. "Or not! What you're wearing is fine, dear! Girls can wear anything we like! Even scruffy boy's clothes!" Seeing she wasn't getting any response at all, she tried a different topic.

"Are you ready to tell us what happened last night, sweetheart?" she probed gently. "I... I hate to insist, but we're very worried. She's your best friend! A girl needs her BFF! What upset the two of you so much?"

Thinking about what it was that had ended their lifelong friendship, Josh suddenly realized that the truth was the best answer, just told from a certain point of view. "She... she never liked the real me. She only liked what she thought I was. We aren't friends anymore."

Pulling Josh out of his chair, Melanie hugged him desperately. To his own surprise, he hugged her in return and, for a moment, felt like everything was going to be all right again. Then Melanie opened her mouth.

"Oh, sweetheart! I... I knew there was a risk that if you tried to be yourself your friends might turn on you! I've heard and read so many stories about it! I... I just never thought Tracy, of all people, would be like that! After all, you and Davie..." Feeling Josh's arms stop hugging her, Melanie leaned back to look at him. "What's wrong, dear? Is... Oh, no! Don't tell me! Did... did you and Davie have a falling out? Because you're..."

"We got in an argument." Josh explained in a sorrowful monotone as he sat back down. "He doesn't like me being treated different. He thinks it would have been better if you two had never told the teachers about me and I stayed like I was. Now all the kids at school know. I told him that it wasn't my fault, but he blames me anyway. I don't think we're friends anymore. I don't have any friends."

"Your father told me you made a new friend yesterday! Brenda? You called her up?"

"She pretended it was a wrong number and hung up." Josh said around a bite of cereal. "We made friends before everyone in school heard... when they heard the story that I'm really a girl. Brenda must have found out and now she's not my friend, either."

"Alright! So those people never really were your friends! You don't need close-minded people like that in your life! You'll make new friends! Friends who'll accept you for who you are, and not for what they expect you to be!"

Josh looked over at his mother and just rolled his eyes. You mean exactly what you're doing right now, mother? Hypocrite! Taking his last bite, he tried not to look too judgmental.

"Oh, I know, sweet pea! It doesn't seem like that now, but after a while it'll get better! Your father and I will see to that!"

Standing, Josh picked up his black rainbow pack, slung it over his back, and started to the door. "I'll see you after work, Mom. Gotta catch the bus."

"Oh no you don't, missy!" Melanie stated as she gently grabbed Josh by the elbow. "I'll not have you riding the bus with the same two so-called friends that deserted you just when you needed them most! I'll drive you to school, and your father will pick you up after! I think for a while you'd be better off where we can keep an eye on you... so you don't have to worry about getting bullied by those superstitious, patriarchal, transphobes!"

Sitting Josh down at the table, she knelt down beside him. "Sweetheart, you have to understand that there are a lot of very mean people in this world. People who would hurt you just for being yourself. It's not fair, but it's getting better all the time! Maybe even by the time you graduate things will be a lot better!"

Josh was too numb to care either way. In the space of a day, his entire world had flipped upside down. Tracy and David weren't his friends anymore, Brenda was dodging him, and his parents were going to be hovering over him night and day, pushing him to be something he wasn't. Life had been weird before, but now it was actually and truly a living hell.

Driving the car the five miles to school, Melanie tried to draw 'her daughter' out. She pointed at shops to see if Josh would like to go in and try things on and talked about all the things she needed to teach him that every twelve-year-old girl would have been taught years earlier. Finally, when stopped at a light, his mother pressed a point.

"Sweetie, I know we need to be patient with you, especially now that you've been hurt so badly, but are you ready to tell us your real name?"

"My name is Joshua Vincent Ryan."

Sighing, she shook her head. "You don't need to hide anymore, sweetie! That was the name your father and I gave you when you were born because we thought... well... to our shame we assumed we had a boy. I don't know if you can ever forgive us for not seeing the real you sooner, sweetheart!" Pausing a moment as they started moving again, Melanie struck on an idea. "I know! I understand now, baby! We never told you what your name should have been if we'd have known you were really a girl! You just accepted the name we gave you unconditionally! I need to pull over!"

Pulling into a strip mall parking lot, Melanie grabbed a tissue and dabbed at her eyes, trying not to ruin her makeup. Once settled, she turned and looked at Josh. "I'm so sorry! We should have named you Jocelyn! That was the name your father and I picked out for you before we assumed you were a boy! Jocelyn Viola Ryan! Yes! How do you like that, sweetie?"

"My name is Joshua Vincent Ryan. I don't have any other name. That's what's on my birth certificate, so that's who I am." he said emotionlessly.

"Oh, sweetie! Your father and I will fix that! You must be in so much pain! That's enough! You cannot go to school today! Not after the nightmare you went through yesterday! You need time to heal... to stop hating this part of your life that, right now, seems to have only brought you misery, just for trying to shine out as yourself! I'm such a fool! I'm doing this all wrong!"

Turning the car around, she headed straight back to their home and, once inside, immediately called the school.

"Hello? Yes, this is Ms. Ryan. I'm calling to let you know that my daughter will not be able to come to school today due to the trauma she suffered at the hands of some very cruel students there! I need to speak with Vice Principal Tanner immediately!"

Josh listened absently as his mother cemented the end of the only real friendships he'd ever had.

"Good morning, Mr. Tanner. Yes, Tracy and David Edwards, who had been good friends with my daughter before she transitioned, were both very cruel to her yesterday and terminated a life-long friendship with her, just because she's transgendered!"

Hearing a pause, Josh almost felt a twinge of hurt at the thought of never reconciling with his best friends, but there was nothing he could do.

"That would be fine! Yes! I absolutely agree! Sensitivity courses for the three of them I'm sure would see to it that they will, at very least, never bother my daughter again! Yes, thank you so much Mr. Tanner! I'm so glad this school district is so progressive in its policies! Yes! I'll let you know as soon as Jocelyn is recovered. Alright! Goodbye!"

Sensitivity courses? he pondered. For Tracy, David... and Reggie? Yeah... they're never gonna forgive me!

Melanie went into Fred's office and explained about 'Jocelyn' and why they would both be home today. After a few minutes, Fred came out and looked down at Josh sitting on the couch, apparently catatonic. Crouching down in front of him, Fred took the boy's tiny hands into his own.

"Princess? I wish I could make the world a better place for you. All I can do is be there for you, protect you how I can, and love you unconditionally. I hope that's enough!" Folding Josh into a warm hug, he was disappointed when Josh didn't return it as he'd done the day before. Letting Josh go, his father stood back up with his fists clenched. "I hope those kids get what's coming to them!" he growled. "They should all three be expelled! Hurting my sweet daughter like that! And for what? Just because she's being honest about herself?"

"Now, Fred!" Melanie tried to calm him, "We don't want to upset poor Jocelyn any more than she has been already, right? Just... go on back to work and let me take care of this."

While Fred wandered back to his office, Melanie led Josh up the stairs and into the bathroom across from the boy's girl room. Still just going where he was directed, Josh let his mother strip him of his clothes while a bath ran in the tub; the sweet scent of bubble-gum filling the air.

"I know you're a little old for a bubble bath sweetie, but I did a lot of reading about this, and I know you missed out on so much of just getting to be a little girl! So consider today, 'Jocelyn's Day'! We'll get you all clean, put you in a pretty nightgown, and then sit and watch movies together!" Hoping that it would at least make her 'daughter' smile, Melanie was disappointed when all she got as a response was a tear rolling down the cheek of her only child who was lost in a fugue state.

Josh was barely aware of what was going on. All his senses were cut off, numb, and fuzzy. When he started to revive from his catatonia, he realized with some shock that he was wearing a pink Little Mermaid nightgown and sitting next to his mother with The Hunchback of Notre Dame on the TV.

"Um... what happened? How did I get here? Where are my clothes? Why aren't I in school?"

Pausing the movie, Melanie smiled as Josh starting to become fully aware again. "Oh, sweetheart! I was getting a little worried! Your poor psyche took a terrible blow yesterday. You were in no condition to go to school! Don't worry! I talked to Mr. Tanner and you aren't in any trouble! He said you can take as much as two weeks to recover before you need to go back, alright? I also called my office and told them they'd have to do without me for as long as needed while we get you better. Alright? So you see, Jocelyn? There's nothing to feel bad about!"

Hearing her words and piecing together the parts of the day that he could remember, he became very self-conscious of what he was wearing. "Um... Mom? Can... can I go change into my old PJs?"

Turning off the movie, Melanie turned and faced Josh and put on a serious face and tone. "Jocelyn, you can't keep running back to your old life. It won't fix anything, and it's not what's in your best interests. Your father and I know what's best for you. We got rid of all the clothes you took to camp. That life is no longer a part of you. I know you're scared, maybe even mad or hurt, but you have to believe that we're just doing what's needed to help you and see to it that you become a productive member of society in whatever way you choose! But you can't do any of that if you don't stop trying to escape who you are. Do you understand?"

Seeing that he was now not only without any allies, but also no longer given any options, Josh simply gave up and acquiesced. "Yes, Mom."

"Not 'Mommy'?" Melanie asked curiously. Seeing Josh about to cave in to that too, she shook her head. "That's OK, sweetie! I know you're growing up, and you haven't called me 'Mommy' for a while! I... I guess I'll just have to miss hearing my daughter call me 'Mommy', is all. Mom is fine!"

Nodding in understanding, Josh was still feeling uncomfortable in only a nightgown and underwear. The flimsy material was almost see-through, making him feel nearly naked. "Mom? Could I go get... um... dressed?"

Smiling that he no longer seemed to be trying to hide in his old boy's life any longer, Melanie nodded. "I'll have to help you the first time sweetie, unless you've been doing a lot of research on your own about how a bra works!"

Shaking his head no, he shrugged and simply accepted his fate. Broken and tired of fighting his parents' drive to make him a girl, he relented.

The two climbed the stairs; his mother chatting on about teaching him color matching, how to coordinate an outfit, and how to style hair. As they reached the door to his room, Melanie laughed lightly. "One thing you won't be far behind on is makeup! Girls your age usually haven't had much experience with it either, so you won't be too far behind in that department, at least!"

About to open his closet, Melanie asked him, "Dress or no?"

Still shaken from the evening before with Tracy, he shook his head slowly. "I... I saw there were some pants in the closet. Can I just start with those?"

Worried that he was still trying to retreat into boyhood to escape the pain of his transition, she almost insisted on at least a skirt before she imagined what he'd look like in girl's slacks. "Alright. One step at a time!" Opening that side of the closet, Melanie took out a pair of black slacks and a navy blue top. Moving the doors again, she pulled out a silver belt and a pair of black flats. "One step at a time!" she joked, holding up the shoes. Going to the dresser, she pulled out a pair of knee-high socks, black panties, and a dark blue bra.

"I already have underwear on, Mom." Josh pointed out.

"You're wearing white underwear, sweetheart." she advised. "Since you'll be wearing black slacks, you need to match the undies to the outfit so they don't show through the material." Removing the nightgown in one swift move, Melanie handed Josh the black panties and turned her back. After she heard Josh say he was done, she told him to try to hide his privates between his legs and turned back around. When he once again finished and said so, she turned back around, smiled, and handed him the bra. Instructing him in its use, she helped him into it and adjusted the straps for him.

"Next time you'll have to make sure to adjust the straps yourself, sweetie." Seeing him nod, she had him put on the socks and slacks, giggling a little when he became confused about the button being 'the wrong way around'. Handing him the top, she watched as he pulled it over his head before giving him the flats.

Slipping his feet into the girl's shoes, he felt it odd that he didn't have laces or velcro to close to keep them on.

"Now, come over here and sit at your console set, sweetie."

"You mean the desk with the mirror?"

Laughing, she nodded. "Yes, the desk with the mirror. Women use it to do hair and makeup. People used to call it a vanity, but that's very misogynistic! They called it that because supposedly all women are vain! That's why we call it a console set." Taking hairspray, some spray-on conditioner, and a brush, she teased his hair into a semblance of a girl's style and showed him how to duplicate the effect. "When I take you to the salon, they'll trim your hair a little, but don't worry! We'll let it grow out if you want! Shaping it properly will just make it much more becoming in the meantime!"

His head dizzy with too many new ideas, Josh hardly noticed the beginner's lesson on makeup, other than a seemingly nonsensical expression, 'Less is more'. When he looked in the mirror, what he saw stunned him speechless. He looked like a twin sister to himself. Fighting the urge to rail against the image and break the mirror for showing it to him, he meekly submitted to his mother putting magnetic earrings and a heart-shaped locket on him.

"There!" she proclaimed happily. Making him stand and look at himself in the mirrored doors of the closet to see his whole image, she beamed with pride. "You look so much like me when I was your age!" she stated almost tearfully.

Taking Josh's hand, Melanie led him down the stairs and to the doorway of Fred's office. Knocking gently on the doorframe, the two watched as Fred, his back still to them, held up a finger to let them know that he heard them, but needed a minute to complete his thought.

Typing quickly, he tapped the save button and turned in his chair. "Yes?" he asked before his eyes locked onto the small child with his wife. Stunned at how naturally feminine his child looked, his smile spread slowly across his face until his whole expression was lit up with pride. "Princess! You look beautiful! Just like your mother!" he added as he glanced up at his attractive wife. Getting up slowly, he walked over to Josh before getting down on his knees and lovingly embracing his 'daughter'. "I love you, my little princess!" Looking up at his wife he asked, "Is princess alright to use? It's not demeaning, is it?"

Melanie shook her head slowly. "Not in this case, I don't think. It depends on how Jocelyn feels about it." After Fred slowly let go his child and stood back up, the two looked down at him. "Jocelyn, sweetie? Do you mind your daddy calling you princess?"

Josh was confused. His parents were happy and they were treating him with more care, love, and affection than any time he could remember since he first began fighting with them about his identity. I guess I should have just given in. he reasoned. Then they would have been happy sooner. Now that he had no friends, he was in desperate need of love from the only source he could get it. Shrugging, Josh sighed. "It's better than 'pumpkin'. No offense, Daddy."

The two happy parents laughed at the truthful answer. "I'm sorry, princess! It's just I'd been calling you pumpkin since you were a little baby b... baby." he covered his near slip-up. In truth, Fred could not think of the child whose diapers he had changed as a girl. Still, he was dedicated and single-minded when it came to the happiness of who he thought his child was.

"That's OK, Daddy." Josh answered. "If you call me pumpkin sometimes, it'll be alright. Just not in front of other people, please?"

Taking on a serious voice, he nodded. "I'll do my best, princess! I can't promise I won't mess up sometimes, because Daddy is human too, but I will promise that I'll always try. Alright?"

"Alright, Daddy." he answered emptily. "I should email my teachers and have them send me what assignments I missed today, so I don't fall behind. I... I miss school."

"It's only been one day, sweetheart!" Melanie pointed out. "You don't know how proud I am that you take your education so seriously! You go on and do that! I'll be in after a short talk with your father about some things."

Wandering off to his room, Josh entered it and paused a moment. This is my life now. I'm a girl, not a boy. Girl! It'll just make everything easier if I just do what they say. They do love me, so they must be right that this is what's best for me. Steeling himself, he marched over to his laptop that was sitting on his beautiful nightstand, opened it, and waited for it to power up. I'm a girl! he insisted to himself. My name is Jocelyn Viola Ryan! I'm a girl and I'll be happy as a girl!

When the desktop appeared, he brought up his email and nearly cried with frustration when he saw his old name still written there. Why can't they love me as Josh? Why do I have to be a girl for them to love me like this?

Dismissing the thought, he typed in his password, which also nearly made him cry since it was Tracy's middle name. As the inbox filled, he saw the most recent one was from David. Afraid to open it, he couldn't help himself as he clicked on it, desperate to learn if he perhaps still had at least one friend left and therefore some slim hope of getting his old life back. Reading the email though, his hope shattered.

Josh, (or should I say Jocelyn)

You are such a jerk! Tracy came home last night, bawling her eyes out! She said you threw her out and told her you weren't friends anymore! I thought I knew you, but no. You're just a selfish asshole! You think you're the only one with problems? Everyone has problems! Now I find out you're really transitioning! You lied to us, jerkoff! Your best friends! Who was there when your parents kept saying you were gay? Tracy and me! We helped you every way we could, you selfish prick! Your not who we thought you were!

Tracy and I now have to go to some lame-ass 'Sensitivity Training' class after school. With Reggie, of all people! And Mr. Tanner said it's because of you! Because you think we were mean to you! How many times were you mean to me? I knew you weren't serious when you'd call me a fag and shit! All I said was that you shoulda fought harder to let Mr. Tanner know you weren't really trans! But I guess now I know why you didn't! I guess you should be protected, same as me, but you could have just told us! We'd of accepted you! But no! You had to push us away! Just because we remind you of your old life! Well, fine! Hope you enjoy being a freak of nature!

Don't bother writing back. I'm blocking your email as soon as I send this! Good riddence, tranny!

David, your EX-friend!

Tears rolled down his cheeks as he read the email. Now certain he was alone in the world, friendless and trapped in a life not his own, he closed the laptop and just lay down on his bed.

By the time Melanie came upstairs, Josh was asleep on his bed and still dressed. Assuming that he was only tired from his emotional ordeal, she just covered him with an afghan, kissed him on the forehead, turned off the light, and closed the door.

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Comments

Josh’s parents are morons…….

D. Eden's picture

I foresee a suicide attempt in the not too distant future, or perhaps he simply slips into such a deep, dark depression that nothing matters anymore. It seems as though he is not far from there already.

This is very, very difficult to read. I am fighting tears with every paragraph I read.

My entire childhood I knew I was not what my parents thought I was - who they thought I was. But the difference between myself and Josh is that my parents thought I was male, even though I knew I was not.

I can’t help but relate my childhood to this story.

D. Eden

Dum Vivimus, Vivamus

In good company....

Snarfles's picture

I have the same feelings D.

Finding the flip-side story touching chords of resonance, despite it's reversals. Quite a unique experience.

Reversal

RobertaME's picture

I'm honored that you find this story unique, since this story really is, at it's heart, the story of every TG child... beyond any evidence to the contrary and in spite of any and all pressuring to be who others expect us to be... certain of who we are inside.

Hugs,
Roberta

Sorry!

RobertaME's picture

I know you're sensitive to my stories and I can't help but feel bad for making you tear up! :,^/ Just remember not to read them at work. ;^)

Ours is a common theme. Most of us knew at early ages who we were... and most of us were forced by our parents to be something we never could be. For myself, I know that my own mother still struggles with it all... and now as a mother myself I have come to understand her dilemma; how to raise your children to be responsible adults without making any mistakes. I now know that such a standard is simply not achievable. I am certain I made numerous errors in judgement in raising my own boys... mistakes that won't come to light until they are long gone from my home.

I think I did a better job than my own parents, but I can't hold them to my own standard since it was not only a different time but different circumstances. I never had to deal with one of my children wanting to be or do something that would see them ostracized, picked on, bullied, and singled out for who they were. That thought terrified me when they were still babies... that they might be like me and have to face a world with two strikes against them from the start.

As an author, I will take your emotional attachment to Josh to be a compliment. Even though he's not really TG, he's still relatable because he's facing the same difficulties we all did at that age... wanting to be himself but forced by the opinions of others to conform to a life he can never learn to like... all the while believing that he can learn to like it because that's what he's been told he must do.

Things do look dark and hopeless at the moment, but just remember this...

...when it's dark enough, we can see the stars.

Hugs,
Roberta

I will try very hard to remember……

D. Eden's picture

Not to read this story on my lunch at work - although I did in fact warn my staff that I may be a little emotional as my endocrinologist just changed my meds. Because of my immunotherapy treatments, they changed my estradiol from oral to the patch as the feeling is that there is a higher possibility of blood clotting due to the immunotherapy infusions.

I have in fact been a little more quick to tears for the past two weeks, but the girls are all very supportive. I have a wonderful staff, and am very lucky to work for an employer who values me.

The sign of a great author is the ability to stir deep emotions within the reader. You definitely have that down Honey.

D. Eden

Dum Vivimus, Vivamus

When it's dark enough, we can see the stars

"Just remember this, my girl, when you look up in the sky

You can see the stars and still not see the light (that's right)"

Already Gone - The Eagles

Here at the start of the long dark night of the soul, it doesn't look like Josh can see the stars.

Try "Paint It Black" by the Rolling Stones:

"I wanna see the sun
Blotted out from the sky"

Damaged people are dangerous
They know they can survive

My guess is they only see what they want to see...

Julia Miller's picture

At this rate, Josh will probably be suicidal very shortly. He has lost his friends, has been ostracised at school and his parents think he is transgender when he believes the opposite is true. I thought this story was almost comic at the beginning, but now the story is turning very dark indeed. I really don't know how much longer this kid will be able to take it. His only hope is to visit a psychiatrist who sees him for who he thinks he is, a normal boy. Maybe his parents will believe it, but somehow I think the shrink will tell him he is trans...

Perceptions

RobertaME's picture

Josh is fairly effeminate for a boy, but despite that he is in fact a boy. Not because of his genetics but because that's who he believes himself to be. As you so accurately point out, Fred and Melanie, like so many parents, only see what they expect to see. Their son acts effeminate, so they expect him to be gay. He insists for years that he isn't, so they expect him to be TG. The idea that he could just be a normal boy doesn't even occur to them because their personal beliefs are coloring their perceptions of him, wanting to be the supportive parents of a gay or TG child. By showing the smallest degree of non-gender conforming behavior, they jump to conclusions and push him to be what they were hoping for all along.

The fact is that this is the story of every parent. We parents all see our kids through the lens of their potential, wanting so much for them... suffering their every hurt and taking pride in their accomplishments. All their successes are because you did such a good job raising them and all their failures are because you failed them as a parent in some way. It's instinctual to feel responsible for how our children turn out, so we try to nudge them to be better than they themselves think they can be. This can be healthy, urging them to be better people than we ourselves are, but taken too far it can be just as bad as not caring what happens to them at all.

Parenting is hard!

This story does have quite a bit of humor throughout, so don't think that the rest will be nothing but darkness. Like real life, it has its ups and its downs... its highs and its lows... its joy and its despair. The warning tags in the description state explicitly that there is an attempted suicide at some point, (included not as a spoiler, but so as to not upset readers who cannot handle such an event due to personal trauma) but the circumstances of it may come as a surprise to many... and there are still 24 chapters to go before the tale is told.

I thank you very much for taking the time to read and comment on it. I hope you will still be just as interested by the end of the story as you seem to be now. (and if you aren't, then that's my failure to keep the story interesting... because my stories are like my children... their failures are my failures!)

Hugs,
Roberta

Baseball bat needed

Jamie Lee's picture

Someone needs to take a baseball bat to the parents, since nothing Josh has told them has made a dent in their totally stupidity.

Melanie and Feed are two very dangerous individuals, in that once they make up their minds, showing them proof of the opposite will do no good. Once they make up their minds, they close their ears to anything said by the individual they've decided about.

Melanie is beyond being stupid, thinking Tracy and David had been mean to Josh. And Tracy must not have told David the entire story why Josh threw her out of the house.

No one is listening to Josh, only the parents and what David and Tracy tell others.

Melanie and Fred have created a bad situation which assumes something that isn't true. They are forcing their beliefs upon Josh and he sees no way to get them to listen to him.

If Josh starts to think of a way to end what his parents are doing to him, and attempts suicide, Melanie and Fred will be shocked he did such a thing. They won't even consider they are at fault for what he did. They will, once again, believe he's just tired of others treating him badly as a 'girl." What they will discover, though, is Josh having to see a psychologist to discover why he tried to take his live. And maybe, maybe Josh can fully explain what his parents are doing to him against his will.

Others have feelings too.

Things will get better

Wendy Jean's picture

Though it is going to take some time.