I am requesting some help in finding a term ancient old to semi antique for the modern American town ship post of manager.
I will admit this is earn while I earn time for me. I am a cast in brass American Yankee who is greatly uneducated in the terminology used in the past for different posts in a royalty based governmental system the leeway's and limits customarily applied to these posts.
Mayor is an old term along with Governor, etc. Many responsibilities overlapped in the past and each culture had there own definitions. I am trying to find a term for Township Manager. It is just something I want to know as I am trying to construct a system of organization using some of the older terminology. This is a bit of a project and it will be used in a number of stories I am writing. I just want to engage all of you out in BCTS land to get Ideas. I totally lack knowledge of the British Scottish, Welsh, and Irish system in particular. Is the term Marshal used in France? and does any one understand the responsibilities?.
My Idea is to create a hybrid system that will come into play after technology fails and we are busted back to a more primitive level of societal operation. The democracy we have in this country has more than it's share of problems and may have to be dialed back when educated people to do jobs are hard to find. Powers of regional government in my Cascadya Salish sea country / state will still retain representative democracy on a town ship level and up to the Federal level of government. But I do not know yet if it will be a Parliamentary English Magna Carta Or like the Mohawk seven nation system with its checks and balances. It will be interesting to here the pro's and cons from your perspectives.
Huggles
Misha Nova
Comments
If you're looking at a future setting
then reviving already-dead terminology is not how I would recommend proceeding with names and honorifics.
Language tends to Evolve not DEvolve. As such, why not consider how far in the future this is set, and what changes the language might have made in that time? Words that would have changed in usage, terms that might have been created or formed from the mish-mash of older terms, things like that.
Mayor, Governor, things like that will eventually drop out of favor just like those terms you want us to give you. Or, their definitions could evolve. So be creative with it!
Melanie E.
How about
Proctor or Procurator
Someone who takes charge of or oversees...
High official.
In truth I would tend to go with Rasufelle that it might be better to go with adapting new names to fit new functions. However, that said, there used to be a general name in old Scottish and English administrations called 'REEVE'.
This was a generic name applied to a high official or a magistrate or a bailiff or steward who could be charged with many different functions like law enforcement, justice dispensation, tax collecting or land and environmental management.
Historic examples in Britain are 'Port-reeve' =(harbourmaster), 'wood-reeve' = (chief forester). The tile being applied as a prefix to the function.
In Scotland and the north borders of England the functionaries often were corrupt if appointed by the local war-lord and the word 'reever' came to be associated with robbing and pillaging.
Hope this helps, there are many words in the O.E.D. that apply to old historic positions and functions.
Bev.
Not only that, but
Not only that, but shire-reeve became 'sheriff'. (The Sheriff of Nottingham was the "Shire-Reeve of Nottingham")
As a thought, I can certainly see why a collapsing society would revert to old terms.
1) If you already have a term for something, why keep making up new ones?
2) Dictionaries would be available, and as technology breaks down, reading will be one of the few things kept alive.
3) Old books outside of copyright would have been easier to hang onto. 19th century literature is popular for a reason :)
There are _lots_ of different terms for a town manager. Keep in mind that's what Mayor basically _means_. A Governor would have a Viceroy (while also _being_ a Viceroy), who would have Mayors underneath him. I mean, Burghermeister actually means 'Master of the Citizens', and English picked that up as Burgomaster, apparently. (burghermeister/burgermeister gets translated as 'mayor', but that's only an approximation)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
...and then there's bailiff...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailiff
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Not exactly
Reeve, the official, is from an old root word meaning to count.
Reaver, the bandit, is a variant descendant of the same word we know as robber and reave is a cognate of rob.
They are not really connected at all.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Reeve
Various homophones here. The word 'reave' or 'reive', which is included in 'bereave', derives originally from a source which is now the Geordie/Northumbrian 'rive', which rhymes with 'drive'. It means to rip and twist something to tear it off. The Border Reivers of the relict kingdom of Northumbria were made up of the riding graynes, or surnames, who used to go 'reiving', Those surnames included some very famous ones, like Armstrong (Airmstrang), the various spellings of Elliott, Robson, Charlton, Dodd, Graham, Kerr... and Nixon.
In terms of a name for your character, what about Prefect, Elderman, or just Boss?
Marshal in France (particularly)
.... but also in other countries (see the former Yugoslavia) tends now to be associated with an n-star general. Someone to whom the generals report, in a military sense.
But way back when, it actually meant stable boy or servant.
Not a bad bit of promotion, huh?
I wish you luck in your search.
Julia
(German) titles
With a heavy Germanic influence as exists in the USA, then maybe something could be made of German titles.
For instance a Landgrave or a Burgrave, this latter being the boss of a castle (Castle = Burg in German).
Maybe you can find something to contract, change, suggest, slightly alter the spelling from these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nobility
Cheers
Di
Town positions
Here in New England, the executive authority of a Town is vested in the Board of Selectmen with the daily running of the Town administration under the Town Clerk. Also, once a year each Town has a Town Meeting where the entire town population is asked to come and vote on new proposals dealing with the Town.
name of a township official???
The others have given a number of valid responses.
I wish to point out a few small things.
The physical size of the township (and its surrounding lands for which the official is also responsible, if any)
and the population size both play an important part in the naming of the individuals rank.
Someone responsible for a landmass the size of Rhode Island but with only a hundred thousand occupants might have the same title as a person who had six or seven hundred thousand occupants but only be the size of Manhattan.
It would also depend on whether the township was a "land grant" or simply an assigned duty post.
In the feudalistic society it was not just the level of responsiblity but the relationship within the governing heirarcy (to the throne) that governed the naming (and the responsibility accorded to the individual).
Anesidora
Titles and lands
In feudal times England was divided up into 'counties', each of which was in theory ruled by a Count. In practice many were ruled by Dukes, but where a Duke held more than one county his son(s) would be called Count(s) and take lesser roles.
The term Count is in fact a Roman one, and goes back to a period of the late empire (~300-400 AD). As I understand it (and I have done almost no research on this) the rank of Count cut across existing civil ranks and titles in order to provide a unified basis for border defence. More than that I can't say.
So, Americans, the counties that exist in many states have a very long history!
Penny
terminology
It depends on what you want the language used to say about how your society is structured. If you want to focus on how it disintegrated from modern age, use something like "boss." If you want it to feel archaic but structured, try something like "elder." If you want to go downright primitive, use "chief."
Titles of authority
i was once part of a Medieval Recreation ish society. not a historically accurate one, but one that strives for it as much as possible, hence the recreation, NOT reenactment.
for our local groups on up, the "head" of each level is Seneschal. also from england, Henry the eighth as a reference, had a chancellor. not sure exactly how "historic" you want to go, but if it is a "devolved" society, historical accuracy would not be a major concern i would think. a lot of people have the wrong impression of historical usages of terms, titles, etc.
Teresa L
Teresa L.
Position Names
Often things like positions come to be named after someone who was so good at it he defined the position.
I'm quite sure that at some point in the future all United States Vice Presidents will be known as Bidens. And then again, maybe not.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Nah. We already have small
Nah. We already have small round wooden/otherwise containers. They're Bidons.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Small round...
...plastic containers attached to our bikes and filled with drink. They are called bidons too.
In the Colonies...
...at least in the middle of North America, we usually call them "water bottles," French being a foreign tongue for most of us outside Louisiana. Ask for one in a local bike shop and one is as likely to be directed to the nearest bidet.
Of course, for those who *do* have a smattering of French, a bidon is *also* a bit of dreck, summat along the lines of "crock," referring more delicately to a "crock of shit."
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
I was being literal about the
I was being literal about the name. The main use in English is for bikers, but the word was originally wooden containers.
Much like sabots. We now think of it as being a casing for munitions, but they were wooden shoes. Sabot-age.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Precision counts
In Britain, a biker is someone who rides a motorbike.
I think what you meant to say was cyclist.
Penny
Hm.. I think you'd find that
Hm.. I think you'd find that a cyclist would be someone that rotates. Now, a bicyclist, maybe. (Here, a 'biker' is anyone that rides a bike. Motor or not)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Not here.
Cyclist and biker are two different things. I know that in Australia, the motorised form is often a 'bikie'.
We have another term, a POB. That stands for 'pedestrian on a BSO' where the sense is of someone who just happens to be on two wheels rather than being a cyclist. It is a pejorative term, and 'BSO' stands for 'bicycle-shaped object'. Those are the sort of cheap and nasty creations often sold in supermarkets. They look a bit like bikes, but they don't function as well.
Sabot
Both 'clog' (wooden shoe) and 'hoof'(of a horse) in French. Now, as you say, a casing that falls off an armour-piercing shell after it leaves the muzzle. See APHECBCFSDS.
Postmaster
Postmaster goes back to at least 1755.
Thanks this is fantastic.
I love words and there different usages. Just what will our society evolve in to and what would we call our selves. We also allow the reestablishment of pseudo Royalty with how corporations have taken over and rule from there thrones. Some people respond to that not being able or willing to rule them selves. Sovereignty here is very important to the Morrigan and why she is trying to protect this place. The reason for this is coming up very soon.
My story will have a world altering event that will shift things enough to make things complected. Where I am going with this is more towards a town ship democracy that has a social consciousness. People will need to cooperate together to a much higher level just to survive. But the Idea of a more American first people oriented is one direction. There is a large reservation that must be negotiated with cooperated with..
Every ones help is greatly appreciated and this is still an open topic as I continue to Create a place where good stands a chance.
Huggles
Michele
With those with open eyes the world reads like a book