I have lived in the world of numbers (insurance) for decades.
I have great respect for the law of large numbers. It states that if you repeat an experiment independently a large number of times and average the result, what you obtain should be close to the expected value.
The classic example is a coin flip. If you flip a coin once the probability of heads is 50% and the probability of tails is 50%. You could flip the coin five times and have five heads or five tails. It’s been almost sixty years since I took probabilities in college, but mathematically you could estimate with some degree of confidence that you would have five like flips 3.125% of the time.
If you flip a coin a hundred times you most likely will have a result that is close to fifty heads and fifty tails. Flip the coin a thousand times and your result will be even closer to 50/50 . . . and so on.
Insurance companies make money by assembling homogeneous risks and “predicting” outcomes based largely on empirical data.
Much has been said about the unfairness of transwomen competing in women’s sports.
About 25% of United States citizens compete in sports. Of those about 40% are female. Many sociologists suggest that about 1.5% of those women were born in men’s bodies. We’re talking about a sample size of about 33 million which should produce predictable results.
If transwomen had an “unfair” advantage, the number of transwomen champs would occur much more than 1.5% of the time. That just isn’t happening.
I did a search tonight to try to find out how often transwomen are champs of women’s sports. Even on far-right sites the number of instances cited total under thirty going back all the way to Renee Richards --decades ago.
The “unfairness” of transwomen competing in women’s sports is demagoguery that isn’t remotely backed up by the numbers.
For every who is a champ, many, many transwomen aren’t winning anything.
The actual numbers suggest that the average transwoman isn’t as successful in women’s sports as the average cisgender woman.
Numbers, unlike politicians, don’t lie.
Comments
Lies and Numbers
Numbers... if you are a politician can be made to back up your lie.
"Lies, dammed lies and Statistics" (attributed to Mark Twain) tells it all.
We see the right selectively use numbers/statistics almost every day to backup their rhetoric.
Numbers when presented in a proper context don't lie.
Numbers taken out of context can be made to support whatever the speaker wants to say.
Samantha
Misuse of statistics
Is NOT an attribute of any particular political faction.
I studied Mathematics at Cambridge, and for the first statistics lecture, the lecturer came in, followed by an assistant pushing a trolley with four stacks of paper on it.
The lecturer started "This course will cover the basic principles of statistics, and how they are frequently misapplied. To my left are over seven hundred different academic papers. All passed peer review. All resulted in Government or Regulatory Authority action to implement the conclusions of the paper. Every single one of them contained fundamental errors of statistics or mathematics which invalidated their conclusions. When you leave the lecture room, you will each take one of these papers. At the end of the course you will return the paper, along with your analysis of the errors in the paper. 10% of marks"
It may be that some political factions misuse statistics.
It is definitely the case that almost all politicians, bureaucrats, and (unfortunately) far too many scientists lack the knowledge to understand whether supposedly meaningful statistics are worth the paper they were printed on.
Not just about champions
It’s not just about being “champions”. Consider a man or boy who is the 6th best in the school / club / county / country. After transitioning, for many but not all sports, that person could easily be 3rd best woman / girl in the group. That is enough to start winning prizes, scholarships, team places.
If we want to be seen as women we must consider “fairness” from the perspective of born women and girls, not just what is “fair” to us. It’s a double edged sword – it cuts both ways. In my scenario above the girl or woman who is now bumped down to 4th place has lost something precious to her in the name of not excluding transwomen.
I’ve said this before and upset a few people, but it’s not even about whether or not we have an advantage, it’s the perception of others – and it’s a good way of turning public opinion against us.
I’m not just being hypothetical, I’m talking about myself. In my “former life” I did compete at a high level. No more details than that, I don’t want to out myself even now.
Had I competed as a woman I _would_ have placed higher, no question about it. It took me a while, but I came to agree with others that it was not fair on everyone else. Even if it only bumped me from 10th to 5th then that’s 5 other women bumped down a place.
I’m old now so it’s history, but although I missed it I had to see it as a part of the price I had to pay. I didn’t need to make any more enemies by trying to demand “equality”. This was before the Gender Recognition Act (UK) and there were more important and reasonable battles to fight – which didn’t deprive anyone else of anything – although the religious types seemed to consider that it did.
Spot on.
A great moral guideline of sorts is the Wiccan Rede: "Do what you will, so long as it harms none". (Disclaimer: I'm not Wiccan, I only heard of it via stories on this site). Wikipedia refers to it as a "consequentialist formulation of the Golden Rule", but this idea can be found even outside of religion. For me, a similar idea in a different context can be found in the Non-Aggression Principle, which defines aggression as taking or threatening forceful action against a person, their property, or promises/contracts you are liable to them for.
In most cases, the idea that trans people being themselves is harming nobody is 100% accurate. That does indeed break down, as Alison notes, in the realm of sports. This is a battle where I do tend to sympathize with the right, because there is still simply too much reason to be skeptical.
I did cross country in high school. When it comes to 5K times (this being the distance we competed in), there is naturally a pair of bell curves - one for guys and one for girls. The one for guys is naturally slightly ahead timewise (the guys are naturally a bit quicker), but there is always overlap. In the case of my team, the top girls happened to be better than the top guys. They weren't faster, but the overlap was noticeably larger than the coach was used to seeing (it was to the point where the top 2 girls actually would have qualified to be in the boys' varsity - and #3 was close - but they would have been towards the back of said boys' varsity).
The reason I share this is just to underline Alice's point. Making the very solid top female runners have to compete with male runners - not even the best of the male runners but even ones who were not as good - put the female runners at a disadvantage as it was simply not a fair race. If you doubt this, compare the Olympic Track and Field records for female athletes with the times put up by male athletes at high school meets.
What You Are Missing?
I used the example of champions because that is where data can be found.
It stands to reason that if there is a number of champions that is disproportionate -- then the number of 3rd place finishers, or 6th or 8th, will also be similarly disproportionate. This will vary widely in an unpredictable pattern - naturally.
Molly, Clare, and Sue have been the forwards on the U-12 team. They have played together since they were on the U-7s.
Tawnya moves to the area and joins the soccer club. She is a dazzling forward and soon Sue is moved off the starting eleven.
What difference does it make if Tawnya is deemed better than Sue because of one of the following:
1.) The cut-off date for age groupings is January 1. Tawnya was born on January 7th. Sue was born on December 28th. Tawnya has had almost a year more time to grow physically and mentally. There are many, many U.S. soccer clubs that will not accept players who were born in the second half of the year. One of my sons was an all-state member -- largely because he had a distinct birthdate advantage.
2.) Tawnya is black. Sue is of European heritage. The section committee has a black bias because they believe blacks are more aggressive.
3.) Tawnya has three older siblings who have all played soccer. Sue is an only child. I coached soccer for years. Several of my players went on to be picked for all-state teams. The common trait for all of them was that they had older siblings who had played with them and showed them how things are done. They also had a much stronger desire to be good at soccer.
4.) Tawnya is trans. At her age being a transgirl might even be negative. Girls tend to be taller/bigger than boys until about age fourteen.
5.) Tawnya's daddy is the coach. The coach should have the absolute right to pick his squad. Yet - coach bias for their own children is a natural and well-known phenomenon.
6.) Tawnya's parents bring her to every practice. Sue shows up only for the games -- because Sue's parents are too busy to arrange a ride for her to practice. Sue's parents are also the first ones to bitch about Sue not being treated fairly when it comes to playing time. I tried to move all my players around so everyone played about the same total time and played all the positions on the field. I swear some parents had stopwatches to keep an eye on me.
To abdicate on this issue is patently wrong. Transgirls and transwoman have an absolute right to acceptance. To give up that right in the arena is stating that we aren't really girls and women, which is the point the jerks are trying to make.
This is the bathroom issue all over again. If a pervert wishes to put on a dress for the sole purpose of going into the women's bathroom to catch a glimpse of women's privates he should be punished. The same punishment should be given to a woman who dawdles in the women's bathroom to catch a glimpse of another woman's privates, or worse, a child's.
But there is scant evidence of men in women's clothing for the purpose of peeping.
The same could be said of huge men walking around in dresses much too tight in the shoulders for the sole purpose of winning a trophy. To prepare for these blogs I looked for lists of transwomen who are "cheating" to win laurels that cisgender women should have won. The lists, as stated, were very short. They were also, in my opinion, ridiculous. One of the lists included a champion in darts. . .and several other sports where muscle mass could hardly make a difference.
For years, I lived within walking distance of Greg Lemond. Greg is a very nice person. I created a non-profit that has generated a huge amount of donations for our school district. Greg volunteered to hold a ride to raise money. But, don't get him started on Lance Armstrong. Greg can spot a cheater.
Cheaters should not be allowed to play sports. Cheaters are those who create a disproportionate advantage through one means or another -- that is not allowed. Be it blood-doping. Be it body alteration.
No Tawnya . . . go to the back of the bus. You're trans. You're different. If you're going to take Sue's place, who is a REAL girl, we're not going to like that. You're a second-class citizen because you think that you can change your gender simply by wanting it to be so. That's nonsense!
Oh. . .we'll make it easy on you. Here's a bottle of pills you can take tonight to end all this nonsense. (If you think this is something that couldn't happen . . . you're wrong. I heard one of my daughter's high school coaches tell his team after a loss that they should go home and end it, if they couldn't find a way to become better. This was made even worse by the fact that one of his players' father had committed suicide just months before.)
Tawnya is a twelve-year-old GIRL who happens to be trans. If she also happens to be the best player on the team, that could very well happen. Someone has to be the best on the team. There are 12 to 16 girls on a U-12 roster. That means that roughly 6 to 8 percent of the time "Tawnya" will be the best player. She is no more taking someone's spot than Carla took Rachel's spot during tryouts because Carla was a phenom and Rachel was there only because her parents wanted her to be.
Get over it.
There is a name for obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction. . .in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
My guiding principle for coaching was simple. I wanted it to be fun so that they would continue to play the sport. I bent over backward to treat every little girl or boy as the precious person they were, no matter their skill level. I used positive reinforcement constantly -- rewarding the player for skill advancement commiserate to their skill level. I coached both genders, for U-6 through U-19. I had state champions and many regional champions, but at the beginning of every season, I told my parents that in my mind the perfect season would be one in which we went 4-4-4. Four wins, four ties, and four losses, because then the players could learn all the lessons available through sports.
Fairness was very important to me. If we somehow were playing a team that we were much better than and the score got out of hand I would quietly have a forward step off the field -- so it would be eleven v. ten. Or, I would tell the girls they had to complete fifteen passes before they could take a shot on goal.
I wanted my players to play hard enough to win every game. The actual outcome was secondary.
To many parents, I was known as namby-pamby. Sure the teams won, but they could have won more or by bigger margins. I didn't really care what the parents said. It was always a pleasure to have a player come up to me years afterward and tell me how much he or she enjoyed playing on my team.
I never knowingly had a trans player on any of the many teams I coached but I'm sure I would have treated he or she like I did every other player.
Was I a saint? Not hardly. I was a person who believed in being fair.
I wrote a series of about thirty columns for our local paper on the pro and cons of youth sports. Sports took up a huge amount of my time growing up and during the twenty-five or so years my children played competitive basketball, soccer, football, track, and baseball.
Those of you who think trans athletes should sit down and accept their deficiencies . . . I have a question for you.
I was trans the entire time I coached. Should I have made full disclosure and stepped down from coaching because . . .?
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Very close to what I said in the other sports thread.
There are far more relevant metrics of fairness when comparing people than their biological sex, and that's *before* getting into how making it male or female that matters more or less renders every intersex person in the world immediately disqualified if they're open about being so.
Sports selection favors those best suited to playing, whether that be due to mental aptitude, reflexes, willingness to train, or any other metric. Someone having an advantage in ANY of these renders who wins and who loses and who takes top spots patently unfair to begin with.
How many genetic males could join a women's soccer or tennis game and have their asses absolutely handed to them?
How many women could outperform men in a game of football or rugby purely on physical fitness?
There are chess tournaments restricted by sex. Is this because men or women are inherently better at it than the other? (Hint: if you say "yes," think really hard about the society that convinced you of that.)
I love Jill's description of how she coached, and that's the way it SHOULD be: the games should be about community, education, and self-improvement. Winning, or being the best, should always be at MOST a secondary concern, if not completely inconsequential.
I love playing card games, like rummy, spades, or bridge. I HATE bothering with score, because to me the score is the least interesting part of the whole ordeal: what's interesting is learning to master the statistical odds of the games, the patterns and interplay of how choices are made. I also love playing golf video games, or actual mini-golf, or just tossing a ball around or shooting baskets or any number of sports-ly activities, because the exercise is good for you, and there are a lot of things you can learn just from interacting with other people through the medium of games.
In all my time doing so, I've never seen any more value in winning than in losing, if the games were played for victory at all, nor have I ever seen any evidence that my opponent's sex changed that.
Melanie E.
Puberty is the point
My argument was about those of us who transition post male puberty. I’ve been clear about that in previous discussions, and I failed to be clear about it here – my mistake.
Your example with Tawnya was under 12’s so presumably pre-puberty. Assuming Tawnya was on puberty blockers then of course she should be able to compete. If, however, if it was under 18’s and Tawnya was not on blockers and had grown to six foot four tall weighing 220 pounds – then that is a different story.
Those who do not go through male puberty have no advantage over non-trans girls and should be able to compete on even terms. Those who did go through male puberty e.g. me retain some of the dubious “benefits” of that post transition. It’s all about the damned testosterone.
Also of course being trans has no impact on your coaching. Once I decided to step back from competition I seriously considered coaching or team management. I didn’t for other reasons, but I still don’t see that my status would have mattered in the slightest – apart from possible negative publicity, which people would have got over eventually.
The other point is – do we really need more enemies? We have too many already, and the number is growing. Why provide ammunition for them when we cannot even prove the point ourselves.
Enemies
I seriously doubt that more enemies are created out of this issue.
This issue simply gives license to bigots to spout their vitriol.
This issue is a canard. Transgressions are extremely few and far between.
The damage done is not unreal. Every trans boy or girl is being told with emphasis that they're not a real boy or girl.
That's what the bigots want. That's what the bigots are getting through this debate and the anti-trans laws it spawns.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
As I mentioned earlier
States are outlawing ANY medical intervention for trans kids under the age of eighteen. Some are making it a felony punishable by up to ten years for any doctor providing gender-affirming medical care.
So the other kids you mention - PRE-pubescent trans girls - will be prevented from receiving the very real intervention that would have addressed the disparities present in trans athletes who started late on T-blockers and HRT by removing that concern. No blockers and no hormones insures a trans girl WILL develop the "ADVANTAGES" they fear. Painfully ironic as fuck. Especially since the participation by trans girls in school sports is negligible.
But the sports issue is only one part of a systematic attack on transgender kids. If there is no medical treatment, that failure to intervene tragically ingrains irreversible changes. intervention. Two states are trying to pass legislation to prevent any minor from PRESENTING as trans, much less getting help. And despite their claims to the countrary, NO child will be permitted to receive gender-affirming care even if they have already started - a forced de-transition that removes freedom from kids, their parents, and their doctors. And it is a de facto de-transition since any normal puberty effects will have become irreversible if left unchecked until 18 years of age.
As I said before,
Love, Andrea Lena
And what about a six foot tall 220 lb genetic girl?
My aunt Paula is a genetic woman. She can't have children (she's miscarried multiple times,) is six three, and I don't think has seen the underside of 220 except when she's been horrendously sick (as the Crohn's is doing to her now.) If it's a disadvantage for a transgirl, then would it not have been equally a disadvantage for her?
She was a cheerleader, by the way.
Malgorzata Dydek was 7'2" when she played in the WNBA back in the late 90s. How many male basketball players would she give a run for her money just based on that height?
Venus Williams? 6'1".
Once again, if it's only the hormones that matter, then every male and female sports player should be on a regimen to regulate their hormones -- male or female -- to the same level as everyone else. If it's just the trans kids who matter... then that isn't about equality and fairness at all, is it?
Melanie E.
ADDENDUM:
Brittney Griner -- the basketball player who was detained in Russia? -- is 6'9" and wears a men's size 17 shoe.
Brittany Has Been Pillared
When Brittany Griner was in college the haters came out and challenged her gender. Many declared openly that she should be banned from playing with "real" women.
Brittany is cis-gender.
Later, Brittany came out as homosexual. That still confuses a lot of homophobes. There are those that believe that proves she's a man.
More germane to this thread . . . Candace Parker is very feminine, and a better baller than Brittany. Candace wears a size thirteen (women's - probably a 11 or 12 men's) . . . same as me. It isn't easy to find stylish shoes but I manage. Candace is 6'5". Same as my second oldest son. https://www.google.com/search?q=candace+parker+youtube&rlz=1...
Gender is a complex mystery.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I agree Alison. I don't have
I agree Alison. I don't have a clue how many trans women want to compete in women's sport, but in many ways it can harm the ones that don't.
Southpark took it to an exterme. PC Principle and his partner Strong Woman are the height of acceptance. This Randy Savage lookalke turns up at a women's sports competition and says he identifies as a women. They can't refuse him and he kicks their asses.
This is an over the top example, but this is what some people think it will lead to.
Leeanna
That Extreme Isn't Happening
South Park has killed Kenny 127 times. That's what South Park does.
If the extreme was happening I would heartily agree with you, but it isn't.
The only extreme that is occurring is the extreme mental damage being done to vulnerable trans youth when they see laws passed that demonize their existence.
As in most legal issues "intent" is very important. Did the trans swimmer switch to the women's team to win or did she come out as trans because that's who she is? "Intent" is the heart of the issue. Not muscle mass. Not height. "Intent."
Fairness is based on "Intent."
Don't tell me that "intent" is hard to prove. I know that. But - intent is proved every day in fraud cases. It's always hard, but it is proven. If the Randy Savage look-a-like was an actual happening, he probably would have a filter on his mouth the size of Trump's and would brag about his "intent."
Fairness is about justice, which is often equated to a scale. On one side you have dozens of female athlete's who have been deprived of their just winnings (theoretically). On the other side of the scale you have millions of trans youth who are being told they're not worthy of playing with the other girls.
That isn't fairness.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
It does a bit.
It does a bit.
When transgender fighter Fallon Fox broke her opponent's skull in MMA fight
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighte...
Although that could happen with 2 genetic women. it's just a big deal is made out of it when it when there is a trans woman involved.
It s ok to compete if you are trans , just don't dare to win anything or an anti-trans bomb goes off.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9983177/Outrage-tra...
You can't tell me having those kind of muscles before transition did not help her?
Leeanna
Is MMA a Real Sport?
When I was young there was a debate over whether chess and bridge were real sports. Both were covered by Sports Illustrated at that time.
Over the years we have seen an abundance of trash sports elbow their way into the definition of sports. Of these, MMA is right at the top for being trashy.
My guess is the promoters of MMA were delighted to have controversy and did everything they could to encourage it. I did a check because I doubted your source and found that no skull was broken https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-fallon-fox-mma-sku...
I would believe Reuters.
There's nothing new here. When I was very young there was a pro wrestler named Gorgeous George. Look him up on Wikipedia. He pretended to be effeminate as part of an elaborate schtick. It worked. He was immensely popular.
If they're going to pass laws to protect professional fighters they should include laws against hitting anyone over the head with a chair, jumping down on an opponent's throat from the top rope, putting a "foreign substance" in their sorts to rub in an opponent's eyes, and using a chokehold. They definitely should ban the Greco-Roman knuckle lock, which has been leaving wrestlers maimed for years.
This is a serious topic with a serious impact on all transpersons. Every day I feel less accepted because of this nonsense. Today I was walking my dog dressed completely en femme. For the first time in years, I felt fear.
MMA is not a serious addition to this discussion.
What does it tell you about the weakness of the anti-trans argument when a prime example used is a fabricated story from a decade ago? Fox retired in 2014.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
The 2nd story was more recent
The 2nd story was more recent Published: 13:31, 13 September 2021 | Updated: 14:29, 13 September 2021
World Athletics has confirmed that its council has voted to exclude transgender women from female events.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/mar/23/world-athletic...
https://www.nytimes.com/article/title-ix-transgender-athlete...
Title IX and the New Rule on Transgender Athletes Explained
The Biden administration proposed a rule change that would allow schools to block some transgender athletes from competing on sports teams that match their gender identities.
Medical proof
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577
Objective To examine the effect of gender affirming hormones on athletic performance among transwomen and transmen.
Methods We reviewed fitness test results and medical records of 29 transmen and 46 transwomen who started gender affirming hormones while in the United States Air Force. We compared pre- and post-hormone fitness test results of the transwomen and transmen with the average performance of all women and men under the age of 30 in the Air Force between 2004 and 2014. We also measured the rate of hormone associated changes in body composition and athletic performance.
Results Participants were 26.2 years old (SD 5.5). Prior to gender affirming hormones, transwomen performed 31% more push-ups and 15% more sit-ups in 1 min and ran 1.5 miles 21% faster than their female counterparts. After 2 years of taking feminising hormones, the push-up and sit-up differences disappeared but transwomen were still 12% faster. Prior to gender affirming hormones, transmen performed 43% fewer push-ups and ran 1.5 miles 15% slower than their male counterparts. After 1 year of taking masculinising hormones, there was no longer a difference in push-ups or run times, and the number of sit-ups performed in 1 min by transmen exceeded the average performance of their male counterparts.
Summary The 15–31% athletic advantage that transwomen displayed over their female counterparts prior to starting gender affirming hormones declined with feminising therapy. However, transwomen still had a 9% faster mean run speed after the 1 year period of testosterone suppression that is recommended by World Athletics for inclusion in women’s events.
I wondered when I saw the results for trans men why there is no fuss about them competing, or do they not?
For the record, I would love it if trans women could compete against genetic women. The problem is anything competitive brings out the worse in the losers. Anything that brings trans women into the spotlight in a negative way surely can affect all trans women.
You can see from the bans above, it is becoming an issue.
I had an argument on another site when a guy stated that trans people were responsible for a disproportanant amount of mass shootings. Utter nonsense that came from the recent school shooting and another that misreported a perpetrator.
Leeanna
I Understand Your Argument
However, I admire Churchill. . .not so much Chamberlain.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
A famous quote (at least
A famous quote (at least where I live) states: "Don't trust any statistic that you haven't manipulated yourself."
Thank you for that quote
I only wish my mother had lived to hear that. She turned herself into an acknowledged world-leading market analyst (in a rather narrow niche) much thanks to her iron grip on relevant statistics.
Yes . . . But, Bru . . .
. . .what percentage of time does that happen?
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
The real irony is they don't give a good goddamn about women
Except for when it can be an excuse for being anti-trans.
Otherwise they don't lift a finger to support women's sports;
And on every issue from reproductive rights to maternity leave
to trying to stack the laws in favor of rapists over their accusers
they're about as pro-female as the Taliban. The same way they don't care
how many kids get gunned down in schools as long as the little tykes
weren't reading I AM JAZZ before they got their heads blown off.
Gotta keep the chirrun safe from the transgender menace
and those evil pronouns and "critical race theory";
But hey, let's cut school lunch programs!
~hugs. Veronica
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Ain't That a Drag
I loved the Nashville chant,
YOU BAN BOOKS, YOU BAN DRAG— KIDS ARE STILL IN BODY BAGS.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
It's a mistake
Well, the mistake here is the thinking that just because you transition that you are somehow magically transformed into a female. That's just not true. You are a male who's pumped up with hormones and surgically removed your genitalia. Sorry, but a female, that does not make.
SRS is just a Placebo for your psyche.
I wish it were that simple...I really do.
I'm probably going to get lambasted over this, but I don't care.
Thank you, Tucker Carlson
That's your criterion for who is or isn't female; and an opinion not a fact.
But your tagline does make for some nice unintended irony.
~Chromosomes, shmomosomes! Laika
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
I merely beg to differ
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6677266/
Neurobiology of gender identity and sexual orientation
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3786754/
Sex, Gender, Genetics, and Health
https://www.apa.org/monitor/apr04/gender
Love, Andrea Lena
No One Is Going to "Lambast" You
But I have to correct Laika. Your tagline is ironic as much as it is hypocritical. . .as stated in Ted Lasso Season 3 Episode 3.
You're not going to get lambasted because this is a "friendly" place.
You're not going to get lambasted because your remarks are so "trolly" as to suggest your purpose is to disrupt rather than exchange ideas.
I have to wonder where you got the idea that SRS is a placebo. There's nothing magic about SRS. It is a procedure to unite a female brain with a female body. Contrary to false scenarios presented by far-right hate mongers, the percentage of those who have had "SRS" who express regret is under 1%. That is amazing efficacy. . .and far from a placebo.
Now -- you could suggest that those who found contentment with their results were delusional -- but the survey I'm citing included nearly 8,000 people who had surgery and that level of delusion is. . .delusional.
You're not going to get lambasted because you, sir, have shown yourself to have the sensitivity of an insect. This site has many, many members who are hanging on by a thread. They are jumping through hoops of mental fire to achieve a semblance of femininity. . .some how. Your cretinous remarks have the potential to be lethal, if anyone takes you seriously.
Fortunately, it's highly probable that no one takes you seriously, so you aren't going to get lambasted.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I said it's a placebo, because it is.
"There's nothing magic about SRS. It is a procedure to unite a female brain with a female body"
and that's exactly what i mean by it being a placebo...
because it's not a female body.
Look, I'm trans myself.... but i know that taking hormones and having a bit of surgery isn't going to do jack squat but mutilate my body and make me look like some weird characture of something that's half one thing and half another.
It's a placebo because it tricks you into thinking you're something that you're not.
mutilate... weird caricature.. placebo... wow that's so telling!
This last comment has revealed so much
about you + absolutely nothing about anything else.
You feel like you can never consider yourself a woman
so nobody else should get to either...
You've bought into anti-trans pseudoscience
and they have you exactly where they want you.
You've thrown in the towel and feel it's your grim duty
to spread their message. There's a long history of people
using bad science to tell the people they want to keep down
that they will never be their equal, that they will never measure up
"I wish it wasn't so," they'd say to a woman or some darker skinned person,
"But you see this graph here? That's science, and it proves what I'm saying..."
But in fact it's EXACTLY what they want to be so. They created it for that purpose.
And it works, for 20-50 years until it's proven to be gibberish; where the numbers
might be right (say, about school test scores) but their conclusion about what
their stats mean is pure projection, with an oppressive political motive.
In our case they'll list 3 or a dozen physiological differences between
male and female, that are indeed facts. Then they'll present their
conclusion, that these have to be the sole criterion for defining
someone; which is not a fact. It's PHILOSOPHY, a matter
of perspective, gussied up in the language of science
and presented as a hard undeniable fact. It ain't.
This anti-trans "science" is the same shit they always
used to preserve the status quo in a shiny new wrapper,
and they're passing it off as candy, that you have gobbled up;
And I am sad for you, that you have been so thoroughly duped.
But try not to foist your bitterness + self-hate issues onto everyone else
or pretend like there's any kind of actual science behind them.
I know misery loves company but when it gets hateful
and hostile my sympathy rapidly fades...
~hugs, Veronica
.
who says this stuff much more betterer than me!)
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
You're back?
I thought you had decided you did not like any stories on this site anymore and left.
Given how you feel I am amazed you are even around here.