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I posted a short story on Literotica recently , or rather I tried . it was A Conversation with Mother - Secret Girl, I even took the part out where he asks his mother if he cut his extra bit off, would he be a girl.
So all innocent stuff, the sort you would have on a daytime TV discussion.
It got rejected as it sexualizes under 18's.
I went on the authors forum and asked why and got accused of writing child porn. Absolutely ridiculous. One guy said that crossdressing is a sexual act. To me that's an ignorant opinion. I tried to explain that reader of TV/TG stories don't all want to read about sex.
One guy said if it were a girl wearing her father's clothes would that be sexual? That never got answered.
It just struck me as odd that the most innocent story I have written, was rejected by a site the allow murder/torture/rape stories.
I really think it comes down to a misunderstanding of the genre.
Comments
Some Concerns
Although I don't agree with using the term pornography, I do believe a large percentage of people would find stories involving children cross-dressing morally wrong -- especially those involving coercion. I've written several stories that I have had second thoughts about.
Of course, a large percentage of people would find almost every story on this site morally apprehensible for numerous fuzzy-headed reasons.
Children cross-dress all the time. Writing stories about children playing make-believe is a time-honored tradition. It's when those children are cross-dressing to express their true gender that draws the ire of the far right. They seem to believe that we live in a binary world -- despite all evidence to the contrary.
Oh well . . , this is where I could go on a rant about all the other B.S. these people believe. . .but if you read the papers you probably already know about climate change and Covid.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
After thinking about it.
After thinking about it. Would this be considered porn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_in_the_Dress_(novel)
There are other stories of this kind too. If they are "child porn" God help David Walliams and the BBC
I suppose it is contex though.
Leeanna
As ruled by the SCOTUS
As long as it is not REAL, it is not porn. Drawings not Pictures are not porn, descriptions of non-factual events/acts is not porn. Videos of real actors committing sex acts is porn. A picture of a naked underaged being is porn.
Gumby - I'm flexible
"Imagination is more important, than knowledge" - Albert Einstein
“The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds
new discoveries, is not ‘Eureka!’, but ‘that’s funny…’” - Isaac Asimov
Naked underaged beings?
Ooh, look! Chicks! Piglets! Lambs!
Every livestock farmer in the world would have a real problem!
Society For the Indecency of Naked Animals (SINA)
...was one of the greatest media pranks of all time.
In 1959 Alan Abel, Buck Henry and several other zanies
created a fake moral reform movement dedicated to clothing
those shameful obscene naked animals. Gullible news outlets
bought into the hoax, reporting on SINA as if it were a real organization,
and talk shows of the day clamored to interview the organization's spokesmen,
who must've been having the time of their lives putting everybody on like that!
My mom fell for it too + killed several of our goldfish putting little outfits on them.
She also sent SINA money to further their cause, but they sent it back
(She didn't really {or dress up any fish...}, but quite a few people actually did!)...
~hugs, Veronica
ARTICLE HERE: >>> https://reprobatepress.com/2020/06/17/a-nude-horse-is-a-rude...
"Government will only recognize 2 genders, male + female,
as assigned at birth-" (In his own words:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1lugbpMKDU
I read the article ,
I read the article ,
In 2000, Abel launched a new moral campaign at the Republican National Convention, demanding that breastfeeding be outlawed as “an incestuous relationship between mother and baby that manifests an oral addiction leading youngsters to smoke, drink and even becoming anti-social.” Astonishingly, he was interviewed by news outlets over two hundred times in two years before he exposed the hoax.
So funny.
Leeanna
I've been accused of having problems
My "friends" are the worst. Penny you won't want to come out this week. One of my Goats, Lucy, is fixing to domino. She has a bun in the oven and it's almost done.
I'll hide under the bed until it's over so I don't have to be exposed to such horrors as..., I'm ashamed to say it, live birth.
Hugs Penny sleep well, Grandma is on Guard. Sorry Ricky, couldn't resist.
Barb
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Misunderstood
Lit-EROTICA? Overwhelmingly 'ADULT' in nature. BUT then you need to ask yourself if that's where you want your writing displayed. They see an expression of identity ONLY as sexual even if it is not portrayed as such, so naturally YOU must have intended it to be seen aas sexual as well. Like another site that has gone so far to insist that in spite of its neutral TG description, readers and writers should have known it was primarily festish-oriented.
How you wish your writing to be perceived really dictates where you wish to post. As mixed-content as this place is, there is zero judgement for the most part - between labels and cautions, everybody is fairly aware of what they are about to read. No surprises other than plot twists and such.
I've had comments and correspondence that illustrate the misunderstanding you've identified. Where my work was criticized as NOT being sexual enough. One critic questioned why I felt it important to have an autistic character. Real life is welcomed here; not so much elsewhere for some, since life is frightening. I'm glad for your work!
Love, Andrea Lena
This is the point
Literotica is a site for erotic stories. Posting a story there is saying it has erotic content.
Literotica is like my old site, atEros.
BigCloset started as a subslice of atEros, but was spun off into its own thing precisely because people wanted a place to post non-erotic TG stories.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Thanks Erin, I am starting to
Thanks Erin, I am starting to think about that now. TBH I was a bit shocked that it would be considered erotic.
There are several children's book on the same subject.
Anne Fine did one called Bill's new Frock.
Was it you that described the Literotica audience as "Pigs in an ally snaffling trash" LOL
I won't post anything else on there.
Leeanna
Excuses and fear of crossdressing
Child pornography? Only in someone's homophobic mind, but they are everywhere and God forbid if they ever met a transsexual. They probably have and didn't know it. In this mostly messed up Woke, Safe Space, and Constantly Offended society, most definitely cross dressing could be thought of as porn. What they are teaching the little darlings in First and Second grade about sex, intercourse, vagina, and penis is education not porn and parents have no right to question what their child is being taught.
I can't believe you wrote a fictional story about a boy putting on a dress! MY GOD! Next you'll write about a girl pulling on pants! You should be put in the stockade in the town square and tagged with a pink ribbon. You brazen hussy!
Hugs Leeanna
Barb
Sorry darling I had too much fun with this one. I ought to be took behind the barn and horsewhipped. Has anyone really questioned how a horse can whip someone? Okay, I quit and promise to lay off the chocolate.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Calm down girl! The site has
Calm down girl! The site has a large audience, due to the variety of sex stories. Perhaps I should have known better.
I honestly in my nativity thought this type of story would be considered as child porn. I would never write about that. I have read real life stories on here where it has happened. You get newspaper reports of child prostitutes etc . Hardly porn.
One guy posted "Would it be considered crossdressing if a girl wore her father's clothing?"
Leeanna
Strict rules; all characters must be over 18
If I'm not mistaken, Literotica has rules that state all characters must be over 18 years of age. Literotica is a porn site. The stories there depict sexual encounters of some sort, most often illicit sex.
The category your story would be under is: "Transgender & Crossdressers - Erotic tales of gender bending fun."
Dictionary definition of Erotic;
adj.
Of, relating to, or tending to arouse sexual desire.
Pertaining to or prompted by love; treating of love; amorous.
n.
An amorous composition or poem.
If transgender and crossdressing on their site is considered "erotic" then by their definition your story must sexualize children.
I've read two of your secret girl stories and I don't see why you would think that they should be on a site like Literotica.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
Habit , post here 1st, F.M,
Habit , post here 1st, F.M, then on Lit. Never really thought about it. Not going to post on there anymore.
Leeanna
Some very interesting points
have been made and mostly it appears that the other site is either, operating on double standards, or concerned they could be prosecuted for mention of something mentioning minors. I have never heard of it before though I am aware there are several, probably dozens, of dubious sites hosting all sorts of content I would consider sick or dangerous. Thankfully, this isn't one of them and those stories that don't interest us we simply ignore for whatever reason. It's a civilised way of operating but only works as long as we all stay within the rules, a bit like a civilised society would be if any existed outside fiction.
Angharad
TBH I have read some stuff on
TBH I have read some stuff on FM that really shouldn't be there. I don't complain, If it makes me uncomfortable, I stop reading.
Leeanna
Under 18
Out of ignorance, I wrote a story "Changed By Aliens" in which one character was 5 years old, had birth defects, which an Alien fixed. It was written with innocent intentions, but in the present day, I wonder if it would pass? I'm thinking of editing it or deleting it.
I've been working on another story which I think crosses the line but all the characters are over 21. I was thinking of posting it here, but not now.
I was told in a College Creative Writing class that it is common for authors to write very steamy stories and edit them before publication.
Gwen
Gwen, I'm sure that story
Gwen, I'm sure that story would be ok on here and Fictionmania. I suspect on Lit it would be rejected.
Leeanna
Reminds me of the old joke
About a man taking a Rorschach test at a psychiatrist's...
The shrink holds up an ink blot and asks him to imagine what it could be a picture of.
"A bunch of Smurfs having an orgy," says the guy
And the next card he says, "Two polar bears raping a nun..."
There's 24 cards in the series, and every one of them makes the guy
think of something blatantly pornographic. When they're done the doctor
concludes "You're obviously hopelessly obsessed with sex..."
"Me?!!" cries the patient, "You're the one with all the dirty pictures!!"
I love the series CONVERSATIONS WITH MOTHER, and I can't think of any part of it's 3 chapters that could be considered intended as erotica, let alone pornography. Literotica is a fine site with a great selection of hot lesbian mermaid stories (or so I hear) but it seems like they don't understand there can be such a thing as stories that aren't about sex; and I think you're best sticking with this site and Fictionmania for your non-erotica fiction, or any that features characters under 18.
And don't worry about them insinuating that you've written kiddie porn, that's just stupid. It's such an off the wall claim for them to make they might as well be accusing your story of being Communist propaganda, or racist, or whatever. It just does not compute. So all I can figure is maybe Debbie's journey into the sweet wonderland of girlhood turned them on because they're a bunch of weird-ass motherfucking perverts who see sex in everything.
~hugs, Veronica
"Government will only recognize 2 genders, male + female,
as assigned at birth-" (In his own words:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1lugbpMKDU
Thanks Veronica xx you
Thanks Veronica xx you cheered me up!
It was those on the message board that said it was kiddie porn. Thinking about it, I mostly post and read stuff on TG/TV sites. So the opinion of what is porn is going to differ.
Many of us probably dressed a children, i can honestly say when I did at that age I just thought the clothes were pretty.
But now I'm a colossal pervert apparently.
Leeanna
Absolutely not.
Unless they're dressing up in things like skimpy or see-through lingerie, a transgender person under the age of consent dressing in the clothes of their true gender is not a sexual act so shouldn't be considered porn. I've written 4 stories where the protagonist has been under 16 and dressed accordingly, and I've gone to lengths to avoid eroticising the characters.
Debs xxxx
Wearing My Sister's Skirt.
I was 4 years old and put her skirt on. I then walked out to show the family. Everyone freaked out and I was soundly thrashed. I was stating that I was a girl like my sister and never got over it.
How many of us would that
How many of us would that story apply to Gwen. I often wonder why there are way more men that want to be women.
There is a lesbian couple who live near me. I saw them in a cafe a few days ago. The larger, butcher one was dressed
head to toe as a guy. she actually looked like a trendy 35 year old. No one gave her a second glance.
Women crossdressing, is just dressing. Society and us, keep men a straight jackets of conformity . That's a whole other blog though.
Leeanna
It depends on the context of the story
There are many stories that have a heavy sexualizing in certain stories, mainly at FM which appears to get away with.
Lerotica.... I dunno its been awhile, but last I checked that site is as it is called literary-erotica... meaning those stories there are sexual in nature.
This may be outside of bigotry. It may be the fact it is about a child that is being sent in to them for publication, being that, and that crossdressing in the erotic sense does fall within the area of fetishes.
Many will agree and or disagree.
Honestly I cannot recall if i have read your series or not as of yet. I may double back in a bit and do just that. Youtube has been doing things like this to though, lgbt particularily anything trans topic like crossdressing is 'flagged' and are held under strict control. Last I heard even, just childs innocent testimony it being trans related is flagged as a PG or at least mature rating that demands age proof to watch it.
Please do not let their misunderstandings and or possibly intentional discriminatory viewpoints put a damper on things. Many do not even consider these things.
Unfortunitelly the general cisgender population is 'cracking down' on the 'trans-explosion' as I have heard some call it. This is fueled by alot of misrepresentation, misinformation & often led/made by so called professionals, that likely are theorcratic individuals, terfs & bigoted supremecists.
In truth we live in a cisgender dominant society, centered around a patriotrical idiology run often by average chauvenistic men. This in general, is gonna lesson the feminization of any form of matriarchy in society. The Women, that tend to have some control, are often terfs, or at the very least covert-terfs.
This is one of the main reasons why although things have gotten better, the last couple of years or so as it is, alot of trans-representation seems at a standstill again.
Even recently I saw a video, that seemed transfriendly at first, was covert antitrans. Was deffinitelly one of those forget the word 'sarcastic misinformation, disguised as news' sorta thing & in it the guy pulled a scene out of the original ace ventura pet detective movie played by jim carrey, via the bathroom scene regarding finding out the girl he just made out with is a non-op transexual living stealth, undercover/inhiding.
We have to deal with this nonsense all the time. It is getting better, but that does not mean there are rotten apples out there we have to deal with. Arguing with them till we are blue in the face is less productive then we hope it to be. Submitting to their ruling sometimes is the safest option, brave to continue the fight, but cis-hetero retaliation by a bigot with numbers on their side can be disasterous
With Love and Light, and Smiles so Bright!
Erin Amelia Fletcher
Hi Erin, wasn't until
Hi Erin, wasn't until recently I had heard the word TERF.
Some women are scared the "self identification" thing will mean a 6ft hairy bear of a man will turn up in a women's bathroom and say "Wot, I identify as female don't I".
Some terf say well you haven't got a womb etc, there are a lot of XX women that don't have them at birth or have them removed. That must be hurtful for them to hear.
A whole other blog though.
Leeanna
It seems clear
Literotica intent is to serve as an outlet for erotic literature. Also anything labeled erotic literature will be labeled porn by some (even if unread).
The rule about no characters under 18 seems clearly aimed at avoiding legalities associated with child porn. You seem to have fallen into the catch 22 of posting on an erotica site with a character under 18, and thus having your work labeled child porn. I doubt it has anything to do with the actual content, so don't take it personally.
Thanks, yes I get it now. I
Thanks, yes I get it now. I was miffed that I could write a story about torturing, raping, and killing someone and it would probably be accepted. But put a innocent story on and it was assumed to be child porn because of the characters age.
Leeanna
Cross Dressing NOT a moral issue.
The Judeo/Christian Ethic is what causes all the strife. Nowadays, women can wear pants and in many places in the world men in skirts is common. Playing dress-up as children is normal.
In Bike
Half the characters started off as boys and for one reason or another turned into girls, I don't think you'll find anyone who thinks it is pornographic, it's the context of the story which makes it so.
Angharad
Their site
Well, to go out on a limb, the name of the site almost says it all. They publish a huge amount of gay porn passing itself off as transgender because of the protagonist's crossdressing. Zero objection to that.
BUT they seem to be predisposed to seeing crossdressing almost solely as a sexual act because that's what's reflected in the majority of their content. SO They're predisposed to regarding ANY crossdressing as solely sexual in nature, and they see kids' cross-dressing through that prism.
Any author might be better off giving up on kid cross-dressing content from that site altogether. Currently some other sites appear to be debating just how young is too young for coercion/forced femme. Every author has to decide what is acceptable for them, and do they want their own works displayed 'next to' works that they themselves find questionable. Again I'm not arguing against any content, but rather discussing what any author might wish to identify with.
Love, Andrea Lena