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In many/most of the stories I read, even the so called, historical ones, the burden of proof is often not satisfied. But if the tale is reasonably well written, we can like it as entertainment. That goes for written work, and movies.
A point of confusion for me, the movie, "The Good Shepherd" by EM Forster was very good, rivetingly so. I thought that he was a veteran of the Navy. Much to my surprise, he was simply a good writer. He also wrote, "A Room With A View", one of my favorite stories ever.
As part of my Corona 19 boredom relief regimine, I just watched "Independence Day" just because I liked the Actors and their performances. The movie was not plausible, but I was thrilled. Then I watched, "Star Trek, Into Darkness". Again, I liked the movie. My one caveat was that I am sure that NO Naval Officer would leave the Bridge and go rushing down to the Reactor Room to fix it. I am fairly sure that NO ONE would go into the Reactor Room, most times.
Where oh where is a Naval Bridge Officer when I need one?
Comments
Leaving the bridge
in the middle of an action is AFAIK, an offence that would have the Captain court martialled.
He'd send his 2nd or 3rd Officer to see for themselves or get the Engineering Chief to come up to the Bridge.
Plausibilty has not stopped Hollywood in the past. Just look at U-571. Then look at the real history. You can't have another nation apart from the USA saving the world now can you (sic). I'm not belittling the role of the US servicemen and women in WW1 and WW2 but to change the country that operated the ship that captured the Enigma from the U-Boat is just wrong IMHO.
This sort of thing seems to be one of the unwritten rules of Hollywood along with that all really bad/evil characters are played by thespians from outside the USA. More often than not, that falls to us Brits to step up and often steal the film.
Just part of life's rich tapestry that they'd have us buy into (or not). Once you accept that they will bend history to suit the 15-35 year age group that primarily goes to watch movies in the US, you can settle back and be entertained.
Don't even get me started on [insert long list of Hollywood's cliched film plots here].
Thankfully, I can watch a lot of old and mostly good movies on the 'Talking Pictures TV' channel for free.
Samantha
{and yes, I did get out of bed the wrong side today}
So, the Brits captured the Enigma Machine...
I must have missed the movie that said that America did it. This is no surprise. Some hollywood movies have been so disgusting that I got up and walked out. These days, I have not been to a Theater in just yonks. I started watching a Chris Pine movie and it was so disgusting that it only took 5 minutes for me to leave.
This film
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0141926/
Later
Later in the war, the American navy did capture an Enigma machine under hair-raising circumstances which almost got the commander responsible court-martialed. :) Look up U-505 and D.V. Gallery. This could have made a fine movie with some subtleties to it; people won medals they couldn't tell anyone about! The only Congressional Medal of Honor awarded in the Battle of the Atlantic was earned by the leader of the boarding party that went down inside the surrendered u-boat and closed the valves and hatches to prevent its scuttling.
But no one could know until after the war! The British had kept their capture of the Enigma machine secret; the Germans didn't know. If they learned of the American capture of a second machine, it would be an intelligence catastrophe!
Gallery later became a rear admiral (so did two of his brothers) and did a lot of writing, fiction and non-fiction, including the hilarious Cap'n Fatso series (think Sgt Bilko/Quentin McHale as a CPO in the Mediterranean). Those would make good movies, too.
Hugs,
Erin
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Enigma
Far too much attention has been concentrated on the Enigma hardware (which also evolved). The main work was done by many people slogging away.
The basic principles were well known in many countries before the war and the Polish had done a lot of groundwork, with some help from other sources, for the detailed construction. Polish cryptanalysts had come a long way for breaking the actual codes as well. Bletchley Park continued this work. Falibility of German cipher clerks was also essntinal in the work.
The real boon of U-505 was that they captured current code-books, manuals, long series of encryption keys etc.
The Russians also routinely broke the Enigma codes, at least from 1942.
Swedish cryptanalysts were quite competent as well. A successor machine to the Enigma could be used directly online on teletype. It's said that Swedish intelligence usually read the messages to the German ambassador before he did.
Enigma was just the start
The "Holy Grail" for those at Bletchely Park was the Lorenz system used by the German High Command. That was cracked with the help of Colossus and a couple of really bright people especially Tommy Flowers and Bill Tutte. There is one section of Colossus that is still classified.
Enigma gets all the headlines and early in the war intercepts were useful but also problematic. Churchill knew about the German attack on Coventry before it took place. To warn them about it would clearly show the germans that their codes had been broken.
But it was the Lorenz system that proved to be the most fruitful in the war effort.
I'm a supporter of "The National Museum of Computing" at Bletchley Park where there is a Colossis and a Bombe and even an Air Traffic Control Computer what runs some of my code! :) :)
Samantha
Star Trek (TOS)
Well, as David Gerrold pointed out in his first Star Trek book, the whole concept of the commander and second-in-command of a starship personally leading an exploration team to the planet, leaving the hundreds on board to fend for themselves, is criminally reckless. But since the premise of the series was to put Captain Kirk in danger every week, there wasn't much the writers could do about it.
Eric
Shatner as a Jerk
My own opinion of Kirk (Shatner) is that he was inappropriately egocentric
You would be amazed
At how incorrect many military dramas actually are. Take the movie "Top Gun" as an example, most that have watched it love it. Some even cried when 'Goose' died. Although everyone that knew anything about modern aircraft ejection systems stood up in the middle of the theater and shouted "WTF?"
The ejection seats on the F-14 is designed to safety eject the occupant through the canopy in the event the canopy fails to open, although this was not the only head scratcher in that scene. In fact the canopy did break away as it was designed, but somehow defied known physics and hovered directly above the cockpit while the aircraft was moving through the air at speeds of probably 500 mph or faster.
Personally I was born in a Navy hospital, grew up on Navy bases then turned around and joined the Navy myself and I can tell you that I find movies such as "Down Periscope", "Operation Petticoat" and "Mchale's Navy" are more realistic.
We the willing, led by the unsure. Have been doing so much with so little for so long,
We are now qualified to do anything with nothing.
Another Opinion
My brother-in-law was a "Goose" during Vietnam. He graduated from the Naval Academy and Top Gun and flew missions off a carrier.
He loves the movie and the first time he saw it he involuntarily stood up in the theater and yelled "GET OUT!" at the screen when they went into the flat spin. It is a tradition, at family reunions, to watch that movie. He's never commented on the canopy problem.
I watched the movie again two weeks ago and was amazed at the quality of the music, the tempo, and timelessness. I've never "lost that lovin' feelin'" for this movie.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Suspension of reality
To enjoy fiction at all, it is often required that we suspend our concept of reality. This is especially true for Science Fiction. I know that when I watch things like Matlock, a show I dearly love and it's predecessor Perry Mason, I have to ask myself, as an officer of the court, wouldn't their ethics require them to turn over evidence that implicated other people to the police? Couldn't they be facing a charge of withholding evidence? Or some other show that is not a serious detective or police show, and see a scene involving police officers acting very unprofessional and not following basic police procedure, especially when failing to bag and tag evidence, I have a hard time with it.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
Conflating two authors
Just to be clear, the book "The Good Shepherd" was written by "C. S. Forester", which is a pen name for Cecil Louis Troughton Smith (27 August 1899 – 2 April 1966) [Wikipedia].
"A Room With A View" was written by "E. M. Forster", whose full name was Edward Morgan Forster (1 January 1879 – 7 June 1970) [Wikipedia].
The names are similar, but they were different people.
As for the way that books and movies 'get it wrong' we could go on for a hundred years and not list all the sad examples. I accept that all fiction is actually fantasy.
The problem is that many people on this planet seem to think that movies and stories are reliable sources for historical truth. There was a war in Vietnam. Vietnam war novels and movies are not good sources for historical information on the events of that war.
I do not understand people who write letters to Sherlock Holmes, asking for his help in solving their problem.
Two Different Men?
Thank you. I was not aware that they were two different authors.
Gwen