I am writing a story that involves a group of soldiers during the first Gulf War, and have a question about how soldiers refer to each other. For example, according to what I found online, there is a rank called "specialist" which is above Private and below Corporal. How would say a Sargent call for such a person? How would someone distinguish between a Sargent and say a Master Sargent?
Any advice appreciated.
Comments
50 years ago ...
I was a spec 4. We never used rank in an informal setting for anyone less than a Sergeant. Generally, in a work situation, 1st and second Lieutenants were Sir, or Lieutenant. The policy varied, unit to unit.
Oddly, if I went on town patrol with my Lieutenant, he drove and he told me to stay in the patrol car. Even in those days, they felt that I would not be able to handle a bar brawl. That was in 67', and I had no clue what would be happening years later.
Perhaps Canadian and British forces were more uptight.
U.S. Army
Dotty,
Verbally, the form of address is simply specialist. As for sergeants, it's always sergeant, except for a sergeant major (E-9). In a company, the senior enlisted person is the 1st sergeant (E-8). If you're lucky, you get to call him/her "top".
Orders and other written items will be specific as to rank. For instance, staff sergeant (E-6).
G/R
Out of date
I was in the army almost 50 years ago so things may have changed but I can give it a try,
Informally, all sergeants are "Sarge" except First Sergeants (leading sergeant of a company) who are addressed as "Top" and a Sergeant Major is sometimes called "Chief" though that might have been local to our own SgtMaj.
Enlisted people call all officers, "Sir," but if your company commander or XO is a Lieutenant, he might let you call him "Loot," and a captain might be called "Cap" or "Cappy" or "Skip". But that is in very friendly units where people have served together for some time. Senior Warrant Officers are sometimes called "Chief".
A Specialist is called "Spec" or "Specks" or "Bird" or just by his name. Corporals, informally, go by their names, usually. Corporals and low level Sergeants may be called "Stripes" by their buddies.
But the army is rife with nicknames. We called our First Sergeant, "Torch" and our captain was "Huey" and our Colonel was "Colonel," which really is not done by the regs. :)
I was infamous for handing out nicknames. Once, a Spec named Baer was running through the camp in his greenjohns with a bad case of Revenge, trying to get to the latrine. I was upstairs looking down and said, "The wonder of a Dancing Bear is not how well he dances," and he was known as Dancing Baer or just Dancer after that. :)
Hugs,
Erin ("McBean")
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Add on
Master Sergeants are usually in charge of a department and they might be called by something related to the department. A supply sergeant might be called, "Stores," or an armorer might be "Guns" or a motorpool sergeant might be "Wheels" or a communications chief might be "Sparks" or someone in charge of some kind of machinery might be called, "Gears" or "Sprocket." These are really nicknames and are actually more common in the NAVY than in the Army.
Medics are sometimes called "Doc" or "Bones".
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
"Sarge"
A "Sarge" is an ocean-dwelling bottom feeder. "Just saying"
Interesting (to me, anyway) ...
It's not listed on Dictionary.com, nor Oxford Dictionaries Online (though the Oxford reference page cites a book that says there's a Peruvian dance by that name, presumably pronounced SAR-hay). Nor the Free Dictionary -- but Google directed me to an entry there for "sargassum fish" that may fit the description, though it doesn't use the name.
Google does quote an army sergeant on Facebook insisting that he's not a bottom-feeding fish.
Eric
back in 90-92
I was in during the time frame.
Private(E-1) addressed as Private and/or last name
Private(E-2) single stripe addressed as Private and/or last name
Private First Class(E-3) single stripe/single rocker addressed as PFC and/or last name
Specialist(E-4) patch with eagle addressed as Specialist and/or last name
Corporal(E-4) two stripes Addressed as Corporal (is an NCO)
Sergeant(E-5) three stripes addressed as Sergeant
Staff Sergeant(E-6) three stripes/single rocker usually addressed as Sergeant
Sergeant First Class(E-7) three stripes/two rockers usually addressed as Sergeant First Class/Platoon Sergeant or "Smoke" in Artillery units
Master Sergeant(E-8) three stripes/three rockers usually addressed as Master Sergeant
First Sergeant(E-8) three stripes/three rockers/diamond in center formally addressed as First Sergeant, normally addressed as "Top"
Sergeant Major(E-9) three stripes/three rockers/star in center addressed as Sergeant Major.
Command Sergeant Major(E-9) three stripes/three rockers/star with wreaths in center addressed as Command Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major of the Army(E-9) three stripes/three rockers/eagle in center formally addressed as Sergeant Major of the Army, normally addressed as "God".
pretty much everybody below E-5 is usually addressed and referred to by last name or callsign/nickname unless actual friends, then first names get used. Corporals are addressed as such around those outside the unit or the conversation is official.
there you go. Have fun!
quidquid sum ego, et omnia mea semper; Ego me.
alecia Snowfall
Specialist and corporal are
Specialist and corporal are technically the same rank and pay grade, pay grades go from E-1 to E-9 For enlisted ranks. Specialist and Corporal are both E-4’s. The ranks in order by pay grade are private (E-1 and E-2) Private First Class (E-3) Specialist and corporal (E-4) Sergeant (E-5) Staff sergeant (E-6) Sergeant first class (E-7) Master sergeant and First Sergeant (E-8) and Sergeant Major and Command Sergeant Major (E-9).
Corporals are E-4’s that are in a combat leadership position typically. An assistant squad leader or squad leader. But specialists can also fill these roles.
You are typically addressed by just your last name when lower enlisted by a higher rank, For example, Staff Sergeant Jones yelled at Private Smith, “Smith, go to the motor pool and check all the blinker fluid!” Private Smith replied “Yes Sergeant!” As he ran off.
Soldiers of equal rank typically just use last names. I served with people for years, and never knew their first names. It’s a military thing. If you are close friends with someone you would use first names, but people you just work with, it would be rare.
On Senior NCO’s E-8 and E-9, first sergeants are E-8’s That are the senior NCO in their company, and addressed as “First Sergeant, or in more casual use “Top” E-8’s that are not first Sergeants typically addressed as “Sergeant”
E-9’s are Always addressed as “Sergeant Major”, Never as just Sergeant and Especially not “Sarge”.
Command Sergeants major are the Senior NCO in A battalion or higher.
A few thoughts
And there are always special cases. I had a First Sergeant that hated "Top" and forbid anyone from calling him that.
You wouldn't normally use "Sarge" until you knew the Sergeant, and that he was OK with it.
Formal settings always used formal address. (Some people always required formal address.)
The more complex the last name, the more likely a nickname is used. Smith is likely to stay Smith, but Stanislovski is going to be Stan or Ski.
Also the less competent the NCO or Officer, the less respectful they will generally be referred to, especially outside their presence.
derogatory names....
derogatory names....
"Also the less competent the NCO or Officer, the less respectful they will generally be referred to, especially outside their presence."
We had a 1st Sergeant that was despised, name of Tarentella, very vindictive, just generally a poor leader. Everyone called him Tarantula behind his back. He retired and went to work as a clerk at a 7-11 close by. I know a lot of guys went there to revel in his fall from power... Considering most Senior NCO's have at least a 2 year college degree and many have Masters when they retire, it didn't reflect well on him to be working a 7-11 selling big gulps.
names used?
While I was not army, so the ranks were a bit different, but throughout the military it's common to call everyone by their last name, with first names almost never being used even by friends. with rank almost never used among enlisted unless someone is being dressed down or an order is being given. "Sir" is always used when addressing an officer.
A lot of nicknames and call signs are used, and heaven forbid you do something stupid to earn some derogatory nickname because you will get stuck with it. This is especially true in small units. One guy in our unit was known as "Tex" and yes he was from texas but he got the name when one drunken night he attempted to ride a water buffalo and damn near drowned in the rice paddy when it rolled over on him. (I would have tried to save him but I was laughing too hard)
Another guy was very good at mimicking voices and did a lot of Looney Toon character voices, he was always called "LT" which was also fun as we did not wear rank insignias which led to many believing he was an officer when he wasn't.
We the willing, led by the unsure. Have been doing so much with so little for so long,
We are now qualified to do anything with nothing.
My experiences
I retired as a Senior Master Sergeant (E-8) in the US Air Force. I was never referred to as 'sarge' always as Sergeant or by first or last name - usually last name. Before I was a sergeant the my rank was Airman and that was also the generic term for enlisted personnel below the rank of Sergeant.
I worked with the US Army on for several years and during those years I was always some type of Sergeant. But in the Air Force the equivalent rank of a Corporal was Sergeant - however that is no longer the case. During some of those times I was the only Air Force person in around and since the uniforms were identical - except for insignia, rank, unit patches, etc - I was often challenged because I didn't look right - in those cases I was called soldier. Of course since I was an airman not a soldier I didn't respond and that caused some interesting confrontations.
Oh, wait one of those instances did involve me being called Sarge and I did respond the same way. It was while stationed in Germany as a Sergeant (E-4), the weather was chilly but not cold, I was making the mail run and as I got out my car - wearing a short sleeve shirt and gloves - I heard someone yell "Soldier" at me but as I said before I don't answer to that, I continued to walk. Once again I heard someone yell, but his time it was "Sarge" - so I turned and responded. As I was to learn later it was an Army (E8) - he asked me where my coat was and I answered "In my car". He then informed that the "uniform of the day" was to wear field jacket and carry gloves, about the same time he notice that I was Air Force. He then stated 'oh you're Air Force, don't you have uniform of the day?" I answered "No, the Air Force figures if I'm cold, I'm smart enough to put my own coat on. " He asked where I worked and I said AFN and I could see a vein in his forehead start to pulse as he started to walk away.
I guess everyone's experience is different.
Jeri Elaine
Homonyms, synonyms, heterographs, contractions, slang, colloquialisms, clichés, spoonerisms, and plain old misspellings are the bane of writers, but the art and magic of the story is in the telling not in the spelling.
"Sarge"
Although I was in the Army, I was often stationed on Air Force bases. I went to radio intercept school at the airbase in San Angelo, Texas. Since I had been in the Army Reserve before going on active duty, I was in fact, already a Specialist-4 instead of a PFC like most of the other Army students. (They had Spec-5s, 6s, and 7s back then, I eventually made it to Spec-6 a month after I went back on Reserve.)
I was walking down the Avenue one day, suffering from a bad sunburn and puzzled by that. I had grown up in the CA desert and had never had a sunburn. We always said it was because it was too hot to get one in the Imperial Valley but in fact it was because of 100 feet of extra air and dust; it was like wearing sunscreen SPF about 20. But in Texas, while the land looked flat and very much like the CA low desert, we were actually almost 2000 feet higher than where I grew up and sunburns were easy to get.
Anyway, I was walking along wondering if some benadryl would help me sleep when I heard someone repeatedly calling out, "Sarge! Sarge!" I didn't see any sergeants around and I kept walking and they kept calling. Finally I stopped and turned around to see what idiot was calling for a non-existent sergeant. It was two Airman-1s. When I turned around they asked directly, "Sarge, do you know where the EM club is?"
I told them and explained that I wasn't a sergeant or even a corporal but I knew that an E-4 in the Air Force was called a sergeant, so I understood their mistake. They were trying to be polite. :) The common thing AF NCOs called low-ranking Army ranks was, "Greenie," since our uniforms were green instead of blue; it was usually said with some humor. We should have been wearing khaki, but some general decided that Sixth Army would wear Dress Greens all year round, even in San Angelo in July.
Turned out to be a fairly common thing for young airmen to call specialists, "Sarge." Better than "Greenie," I guess. :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Wow, that was a while back.
Wow, that was a while back. The last Spec-5’s were converted to hard stripes around 1985, we had one in my department, hadn’t been Spec-7’s for a long time before that...
I was an Air Force (E-8)
I was an Air Force (E-8) Senior Master Sargent/First Sargent in a Security Police Unit.
I was called "First Sgt", "First Sleeve", "First Shirt", "Top".
By the way, it is not a rank in the AF, it is a position. However, it is one of the few special positions that a person can hold that they are allowed to continue to wear the insignia of position (Diamond) after they retire. That means I can always wear the Diamond with my stripes. (rank insignia).