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On Facebook I have encountered a young Mormon woman who feels she is male. Sigh !!! And looking at her facial features, it seems likely that she has some sort of intersex issue. She is one of those women who can look female with long hair, and with short hair and perhaps a bit of Testosterone look male perhaps. As you probably already can suss out, Dad is not speaking to her and Mom is in tears. This to me is the pain road ...
So if one of you wishes to deliver a swift kick to my bottom, this would be your best chance because I feel too torn to feel very competent. I am reasonably sure that the Church will throw her out if she keeps entertaining these thoughts, not that I think she is one bit entertained.
Some of you are perhaps having quite harsh thoughts about me just now. I am sure that this must be her path and her decision to make, and I have told her that I would talk with her and be reasonably supportive, but any decision, owing to the seriousness of the situation must be hers.
My first instinct is to wave her off like an F-18 with its gear up. There were people who were far too anxious to push me into girlhood, and I would like to blame them. Can it be that they saw what I could not? And yes, aside from my own family acting like plonkers, my life is wonderful and rewarding.
I certainly do not wish to discourage her enough to have her kill herself. I feel like Tin Man in the Wiz, "If I only had a brain..."
Help !!!
Gwen
Comments
Gwen.....
We can only counsel others when they seek our advice. If she/he is serious (and we sometimes have doubts about our own journeys - I am F2M post op) he needs to get neutral professional help. Reaching out to any religion, in my own opinion, is the wrong place to seek help for questions such as these - the churches' dogmas get in the way when they consider gender/sexual orientation questions.
I am firmly convinced that we of the LGBT community were born this way and any god doesn't have anything to do with the condition. The process of producing the next generation is fraught with endless possibilities for variations from any so called, norm.
To me, the human condition fits an endless bell curve that does not start at zero and never reaches 100%. The majority of humankind falls under the "bell" - the so called norm - but there has always been those who fall under the flanges of the "bell". To me, the term normal for the vast majority is mis use of the english language, all human variations are normal - the ones under the "bell" are only the usual versus the rest who are unusual.
I have two people who have come to me to hear about my journey and that is all I can tell them aside from the advice that they search for understanding professional help. Seeking help from those with closed minds and views of normal and abnormal, to me , is counterproductive.
Ruth
May the sun always shine on your parade
The tin man
was looking for a heart. At least in the movie. It was the scare crow that needed a brain.
Objective counselling is What is needed
I fully agree with Queen Ruth when she says that objective neutral counselling should be sought I talk to gender confused teens here in the UK and in 10 years of counselling I have found that the church in many cases does not understand the issues.
The dogma of the church does not allow much variation BUT there are congregations that encompass differences and these are what the church should be like.
My experience were different to yours, no one pushed me towards woman hood it was my decision the health professionals were helpful and my family understanding compared to many I've been lucky.
This poor girl needs independent objective support you have done a wonderful thing in reaching out to her at least she knows that there is someone who cares but as you say it has to be her decision as it is a serious situation. I don't use social media or else I would also chat with her keep up the great and compassionate thing you are doing with her.
I could be way off beam here but I don't think the Mormon Religion is very receptive to situations like this I really hope I am wrong with this statement.
Christina
What?
Wait, they accept you but not him? That's fucking disgusting. He says he's a man he's a man. Period, I don't care what anyone says, his identity is fully valid.
I know who I am, I am me, and I like me ^^
Transgender, Gamer, Little, Princess, Therian and proud :D
My understanding
My understanding, from the Mormons I know, is that transgender may be accepted, so long as they do nothing "permanent" to their bodies (temples). This is the church in general, not individuals. Individuals are all over the place. I do know of at least two M2F who were told they would be excommunicated and shunned if they had any surgeries (and, in at least one of those cases, they followed through).
Another point, whether it applies in Gwen's case or not, is if they don't know they can accept one who passes well. If those who know the individual best are accepting, despite The Church's teachings those around who may not know are more likely to be accepting (assuming the first group wouldn't accept someone unacceptable).
(All the above is hear-say from both trans and non-trans Mormons, including one Elder.)
None of us should tell another what they are. We only know what our situation is and what others have told us of their situations. As has been indicated, any person who might be trans should seek professional care from someone experienced with trans but who also doesn't carry an agenda either (any) way. There ARE those who are "of faith" who can and will help trans individuals come to understand themselves just like there are secular therapists who can/will. On the other side there are those who cause more harm (both religious based an not religious based) than they help. Finding someone a person can talk to, who can help you figure out who you are is invaluable. It's far to easy today to "read a bit" on the internet, and "self diagnose"... Find out enough to "answer" the "gatekeeper's" questions "right" and get where you THINK you should go. It's best for all concerned that we NOT take this approach. Oh, I know many have "known" from earliest ages, but what we know may not be so. I "KNEW" I was a "guy" because I was carefully TAUGHT that as well as taught that anyone who thought they were "LGBT" was sick... So, like so many (with no other information available) I suppressed that aspect of myself.
Please - do not DISCOURAGE the person from learning to understand who they are. Once a person knows who they are, then is the time to consider if/when any other steps are appropriate.
Annette (who climbs down off her soap box)
I'm a Mormon, albeit non-practicing
Annette, you're right on with the Churchs acceptance with the requirement that no permanent change be done to transition. The excommunication is also correct. It's the same for being anywhere else on the spectrum. The church has taken a position that it's okay being on the spectrum, so long as you don't act on it.
When I finally came out to those in my ward, I was surprised by how much acceptance I received. My church friends stuck by me and gave me some of the biggest help I received when I started my transition. I still stay in contact with several of them, though most have moved away and are busy with life.
I was told about the excommunication by my Bishop and counseled to pray to God for guidance about what I should do. Even with knowing that I could be excommunicated, the Bishop did not say don't do it nor did he act on his own against me. He merely told me what most religious folk should be doing if they believe in God, and that's to get guidance from him.
But there are many individuals who do not speak for the church, and don't have stewardship over the person involved who are scum with what they do and say. They're the worst.
Internet High Fives All Around
Stardraigh
( •_•)>⌐■-■
My Deviantart
(⌐■_■)
Suggest this to the young man
The church shouldn't excommunicate him for having thoughts. It technically is the action that could lead to excommunication. Even then, this may not happen. There are a handful of those who have transitioned and maintained their membership in the LDS church. They're rare, but do exist.
Gwen, as a Mormon, I'd suggest the following to the young man:
Find a mental health professional who can help but one outside of the LDS Family Services.
Research both the scriptures, and transitioning
Pray
Explain as much about your feelings to the Bishop of your ward
Be patient with your family
Be patient with yourself.
If he wants to, he can message me on FB. Here's my facebook page -- https://www.facebook.com/spacemecha
Internet High Fives All Around
Stardraigh
( •_•)>⌐■-■
My Deviantart
(⌐■_■)
I'm Mormon
But had a very difficult time deciding to remain Muslim or be Mormon. I'm Mormon now but don't make much noise about it around Muslims for obvious reasons, some believe I am to be beheaded.
I am not really sure why they approved my Baptism. Perhaps it is because I had the surgery in 2007 and was baptized on 2012? They say I will not get a TR, but that is even up in the air because in medical tests paid by them, they found out that I am XXy, non Kleinfelters. Also, my transition was not voluntary, long story.
So, my Bishop is trying to get me a TR. We'll see how that goes.
Merry Christmas
Gwen
Excellent
Glad to know that he's getting some help.
Internet High Fives All Around
Stardraigh
( •_•)>⌐■-■
My Deviantart
(⌐■_■)