This is important. I have a friend who wants to transition, and thinks that their grown children and present wife will be fine with it. She has not talked with the children before this time about it.
I think that if there is any chance of success, then the wife and children need to have known about the situation for a long long time, and it will take a woman of astonishing fortitude to survive it. She will read this blog.
Many Blessings
Gwen
Comments
I am not married.
I can however shout from the rooftops that humans are radically different inside than out. Specially when their binary (male/female absolutes) view of the world is confronted.
Internal values vie with external pressures from family, friends, coworkers, religious upbringing, peers, neighbours, and their own self worth.
We as humans act a part and that part may or may not be a reflection of who we are inside. Our fears govern who/what we portray to others.
Even the most supportive/accepting people can change dramatically when that support has to be applied to their own internal views specially where said views are purely binary. The change can range from pure acceptance and joy all the way through severe violence both physical and mental/verbal (telling everyone).
Be very careful.
Nobody.
Lets just say they change
But yes I have seen a few. It may depend on age and how long they have been together. If in that "friends growing old together" phase, it may work out. Hormones change many and the chemistry of the opposite sex may be difficult to deny, there is also the need for validation by some and this is usually in the form of encounters with new partners of the opposite sex. My ex was also my biggest cheerleader for several years but poor life choices on her part lead her to believe her life not turning out as planned was all my fault. They did not sign on for this unless they knew of the possibility in advance as mine did.
I am a much improved model
Along with extensive modifications and improvements. Too bad that they will never see it. However, one modification, the nipple rings did not work out. :(
Gwen
What might happen later?
I am as many alone and never got married. But what I have seen in two couples that are among muy best friends is that the relation can return to something that is like more than just a friedship.
Case 1: An earlier gay couple who lived as a reistered couple. The closest that gay persons could have here in Sweden earlier. Before the SRS ( or the equivalent in other groups) they had to get a separation according to the Sweish law. This happened about six months before the MtF operation. About 3 months after the operation they amrried and now fully legal as man and woman. The husband had some rpoblem to adjust to the new situation, But they lived happily together.
Case 2: This was a traditional marriage, where the couple had started to feel the effect of the man's inborn "error". A fairly bitter divorce took place and then he had her operation. A couple of years after the SRS they started to get together , but now as friends. Seeing their relation from the side, I can tell that they are having a really good relation but still live in about 30 minutes distance.
Other cases has just been told to me so I cannot really judge them.
The outcome of the genderchange is really uncertain, but it is not always going to be a catastrophy. I think the hardest effected person is the one that does not change. He/She has to adjust to getting into what others might see as a same-gender-relation. And thst is still seen as something too far from the normal in most countries. I think that the psychologic/psychiatric help should really be given to both in the marriage to help them see what the best solution for them would be.
Ginnie
GinnieG
well, one
The only couple I know in 3D life with a surviving postop relationship were younger. She married hir because of hir feminine qualities, and she already knew herself to be bi in orientation. They stored sperm, and have had two and 3/4 or so kids and seem very happy(they plan to stop at three). The legal wife is the primary bread winner, while the earstwile legal male has a part time business and stays home with the kids and house. That was the economic relationship before surgery, and I would say their marriage has been a bit unusual.
I know online of a couple who's legal/economic and emotional marriage has survived (S/he is retired military), but their sex lives have apparently not continued and they live together more as sisters than partners. They have two grown daughters.
Others have not had their marriage survive longer than a few years postop, though friendship may continue, but most have had marriage end soon after coming out. The wife most often feels betrayed since the husband was not honest with her when they were planning marriage.
I should also add that F2Ms do better with their relationships lasting post op. 4 out of 13 f2ms who are in our 3d support group had committed lesbian partnerships that survived the surgeries and seem to be thriving. In all four cases, the current wife had children already, and the transitioned partner (now legal husband) did and does fulfil the role of male parent. It was interesting in one couple because the wife had just sorta come to grips with her identity as being lesbian, and then her partner informed her he was really a guy. She had some identity changes to make once again, but they have survived the turmoil. The children (two girls ages 13 and 16) with this couple have had fewer adjustments to make to their relationship to their new Dad.
It does seem different from M2Fs vs. F2Ms, since a marriage partner of an M2F must go through a lot more adjustments in seeing herself as being in a same sex relationship, and many just are not lesbian in orientation. Not unexpectedly, women who have been in "traditional" relationships before entering into a lesbian relationships seem better able to adjust into a normative one once again. Yes there are women (I am speaking of those I have known personally from our 3d support group) who knew themselves to be lesbian from an early age who could not adjust to their partners being guys, and those relationships did not survive either.
CaroL
CaroL
What Basis
RAMI
I have no personal experience to rely on, but I guess the main question, is on what basis or information does your friend think that his wife and his children would be fine with it?
Does his wife know of his inclination and desires? Have they had prior discussions? Has their life style and relationships shown that she may be acceptable to this development? Has he even dressed as a woman in front of her?
As for the children, are they boys or girls? I wonder if there is any information from case studies that would indicate if a child of a particular sex has a greater or lesser acceptance of a parent going through or has completed transition? What was the interaction between father and child. Was it close or distant? Is a son going to feel a severe loss of his father who was also his buddy, versus a girl who had had a close relationship with her daddy, but could also accept him as another mother?
Are the kids married, if so, what will be the reaction of the child's spouse and that spouse's family? Perhaps a married son's wife would be concerned that what dad-in-law is going thropugh is "catching" and it migth effect that marriage. (Irrational maybe, but that does not negate the thought).
Perhaps his feelings are just that and not based on reality, just a hope that all will go well.
I have no recommendations of what is the best course of action, but he needs to dread carefully.
RAMI
RAMI
So far
My wife and I are still together. Things have been bumpy at times but we have rode them out. It is looking like we will make it.
Hilltopper
Thank you for the honesty.
I seem to field a lot of questions from T folk both on line and in real life. A few of my friends in 3d know about me and have refered girls to me after asking my permission. I am blunt and straight forward, as I want transitionees to be fully aware of what will likely happen in their lives. Inshallah, Public education will help couples adapt more fully to reality and yes in the future maybe relationships will survive, if not as husband and wife, then as friends.
In regards to me, I am a much improved person. Gone are some very humiliating personal traits I used to have to include Anger, painful shyness, and really accute depression. In my case, PTSD, and post 9/11 emotional trauma, triggered it all and when they put me on some very heavy psych drugs, the flood gates burst open. I can no longer deny the results, but it was an extremely painful process and I want to prepare others for it.
Gwen
Maybe...
So far, my wife's sticking with me, and says she'll stick through and I kinda believe her - after almost 29 years. She's an amazing lady! The only thing she's not agreed to do - is give me my injections. She IS in the room with me when I do it though.
Key - I think... Is talking regularly and not trying to bottle things up. But, also, I'm moving forward at a CRAWL - to give her time to get used to things. Yes, I'm impatient and frustrated at times, but it's also giving me time to do things that will make my full time "coming out" much more successful... Elimination of facial hair & voice work, among others.
Time will tell, whether she can continue to be able to once everything is out in public. But, today, I have high hopes and every reason to believe that we'll remain a couple after transition.
Annette
P.S. Most of the extended family on her side also is aware of what's going on, and are ALSO supportive. My parents? Not quite so "happy" with the idea, but they've certainly not rejected me. I'm sure this acceptance helps.
yes, mine did
Yes, my marriage has survived.
My wife and I celebrated 15 years marriage on the 1st April (seriously), for our 7th year I became the other woman when I started my transition.
Neither of us knew Amanda was hiding away until I awoke in 2001 having totally suppressed all conscious knowledge of my gender issues for 18 years (after a suicide attempt).
Gill is 7 years my senior, and supported me in transitioning, she loved me for the caring person she knew, and through circumstances that would make a short novel, realized that it was actually mandy who she fell in love with, even if I did look like a hairy biker back then.
Unfortunately we don’t have children, so that made things easier for both of us.
We know of 3 other couples in Australia that have survived post-op, and have sat down and chatted with them, we are not counselors, but (we hope) helped to show their wives that none of them were weird for staying in love with someone just because the exterior packaging changed.
Gill and I were on national television a month or so back as part of a book promotion, the book is about lasting relationships and we were one of the 15 stories in the book.
When discussing lack of spousal acceptance with T-ladies, I always ask that the person think of how they might react if their wife/girlfriend were to tell them one day that she wanted to take testosterone and grow a beard and become a guy, I’m embarrassed to say that I’m sure that I would not have been as accepting as my wonderful wife has been with me.
There are no counselors out there that have any training in how to help in this situation, Gill saw one once and thought it a huge waste of time, so it comes down to communication, lots of communication, not to mention lots of love.
good luck to any couples out their *hugs*
This is a wonderful site.
I was really stuupid, and naive. Somehow, I thought that most of the girls here had transitioned and that many of the stories were true.
Later I realized that most of the stories are escapist fiction, and there are some really great authors here who write amazing stories. Now days, I enjoy the stories for what they are.
Gwen