A huge part of marketing food is obtaining shelf space. Big corporations have been known to actually pay to have their products displayed by grocers at the right height and in a large enough amount to suggest huge consumer demand. Coke and Pepsi have gone to the mattresses several times over shelf space wars.
What I'm going to suggest is only logical since we are talking about a limited resource. (I have an economic degree and will use it to justify my premise if needed. You are warned.)
My last several stories have followed a disturning (to me) pattern. The first two days they were posted they were widely hit and garnered a significant (mind-numbing for the easily impressed. . .like me) number of comments. And then. . .they fell off the face of the Earth. Or they must have, because even though they were still on the front page they received only single digit hits each day until they left the front page and have gone into the doldrums.
This didn't happen last summer, and before, for as long as I can remember. . .er. . .what was I saying? Oh. . .ya. . .in the past a story would continue to receive hundreds of hits a day as long as it was on the front page, but that's no longer the case, in my experience. In the past, as long as a story was on the front page it would receive comments, but that doesn't happen anymore either. Two days and a cloud of dust -- as it is lost in the crowd. Hiyo Silver.
So. . .if a story is on the front page and it doesn't get hits and doesn't receive comments -- is it really on the "front page"? I say "Nope". You say "You're right."
NOPE!!! You're Right!!!!
NOPE!!! You're Right!!!!
NOPE!!! You're Right!!!!
NOPE!!! You're Right!!!!
See I told you we invented cheerleading in Minnesota.
Solution. Play nice. Don't hog the front page. Don't post two stories within a week. Don't run two serials at the same time. Don't post your stories in small packages so that you have a new post every day or every other day or every third day or even every fourth day. Don't post a blog to say you're going to post your story that afternoon. Respect the space around you and on the front page of BC. If we don't start respecting our environment it soon will be too late. 350.
SHARE. Or "Cher" for those who love the way she dresses.
Like I said -- I will argue economic theory if need be -- and nobody wants that. Think Al Gore on acid if you want to know what it'll be like.
And another thing -- don't you think "hit" is a horribly aggressive word for a site that tends toward pink its logo? How about "tap"?
Jill
Comments
Not Too Sure
Wow!
I am not at all too sure if I like this new rule about posting only one segment of a story every week.
Nor am I thrilled about being unable to post two stories at once, even though both are very different, (At present, that would 'While the Band Played Waltzing Matilda' and 'Annoying Facts')
That being said, I guess I will have to abide by the new rules and regulations governing this web site, since I am working hard to stay out of trouble here.
As to the readers, well, I guess you'll just have to live with these new rules as well.
Via con Dios.
Nancy Cole
P.S. Would you please advise those of us who contribute stories what the minimum number of words are now acceptable for a posted segment. This blog did not specify that.
"You may be what you resolve to be."
T.J. Jackson
You mean you weren't already
You mean you weren't already complying with this?! :) Be a rebel, give us updates to both stories, several times a week. It's not like this is an actual rule. Hey, I can hope, can't I?
Nancy, these aren't new rules
BigCloset TopShelf
TGLibrary.com
Sephrena
Unnecessary
We don't need a rule about limiting the frequency of segments of the same story; The magic is already in place so that there's only one chapter at a time of a given serial on the front page.
The Problem I See
The problem I see with that is there are authors on here that have a very popular following with their stories. There are some who have multiple series going that readers are asking about a lot. I don't know that the number of stories correlates in less hits for others. It might be there is something in the story that makes people quit reading it all the time. If a story offends someone's moral sensibilities by the subject matter or content, then I see hit counts fall off. I have seen some stories start out really well, but when the plot becomes dark, depressing or characters suddenly do something horrible, I have seen them tune out more. Economic theory also states that there is a law of supply and demand. If a story or a product is popular then the public will demand it. The "Bike" series is one that has earned a nightly following and there are so many others that are tremendously popular. If you start limiting those stories and others, you run the risk of readers leaving for other sites. You have some great stories on here but just because you may not post every day doesn't mean that others should refrain from doing so if they have a huge following. I see that your words have offended at least one great author on here already and you run the risk of hurting more if you insist on these "Play fair rules" You are a wonderful writer Angela and if you put something out there it will get read because you are one of the best.
Hugs,
Jen
limits
Are you saying limit bike episodes to twice a week but I need my daily fix of bike because it brightens my day after doing govt work all day.
Hugs,
Jenna From FL
Moderator/Editor
TopShelf BigCloset
Hugs,
Jenna From FL
Moderator/Editor
TopShelf BigCloset
It is a long road ahead but I will finally become who I should be.
Bike
According to Article III, Subsection A- EAFOAB (a/k/a House of the Seven Gerbils) is "grandfathered" and exempt from the new ordinance, along with all other series that have more than 500 parts to date...
But seriously, I don't think Jill's proposing any rules carved in stone, only suggesting a little courtesy. Although personally I'll find it hard to do. I had 18 new Christmas song parodies I was gonna post over the next six hours, which are ever so clever and took me several minutes to write. Surely people would rather see something like this on the front page than some dumb old story:
Frankie the Transman
was a most unhappy soul
Because where his mighty wang should hang
was a most unmanly hole
Frankie the Transman
Was a big bull dyke they say
But if they don't know the difference tween gay and trans
well then f--- them anyway
There must have been some magic
In that old jock strap he found
Because when he slid it up his hips
Came some changes most profound
Frankie the Transman
Was as male as he could be
And his girlfriend said
as she gave him-
Hmmmmm, on second thought maybe they're not so clever; and since I've already posted several fluff pieces recently I should hold off a while, maybe post them all together as a "songbook" on what seems like a slow day, giving someone else a chance to play with the idea. That sort of thing...
~~hugs, Laika
What borders on pure insanity?
Canada and Mexico.
.
No matter how you slice it.
I think that there is a formula for stories that attracts readers. I don't think I want to write to that formula, so perhaps that is part of the reason that I am not one of the top-o-the list Authors. One thing does puzzle me and that is now days, some Authors get 100 or even 150 votes. In 2001 when I started reading here, I don't think the vote count was that high. I think that part of it is that the vote box got moved to the end of the story, but I think there are additional factors. I'm not getting sour grapes over it.
Last summer ...
Last summer was before the "Quickcuts" section was introduced, if I recall correctly. Maybe this takes the readers' attention away from the rest of the front page? It does fill the screen completely in my browser - to even want to scroll down you have to know that you can expect more stories down there.
That's just my 2 cents ... Martin
Perhaps the QuickCuts Section should be expanded?
The same sorts of mix of stories and chapters are being posted now as before last summer but then there were only 5-10 stories per day. Now there are 8-15. This happened last winter, too. But back then we had Edeyn doing her version of ShortCuts which was very nice but very labor intensive since she made decisions that could not be automated. When Edeyn was no longer able to continue her ShortCuts, I came up with QuickCuts.
QuickCuts is the most recent stories and chapters within a fifty hour period. Should this be changed?
Hugs to all,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
I seem to recall something that you said very recently
...something that you and Bob were talking about; like a page within the site to display all the retro postings, and perhaps re-posts? This would free up the list up front for current and new authors while still providing the reader with the older classics and re-works. If the number of stories being posted daily increases, then it makes sense to somehow expand Quickcuts, so that the stories don't get lost when their posting gets pushed out of sight. And certainly, I recognize that you can only do so much with what space you have, so I'll keep in mind my fellow (what's the femme counterpart to fellow?) authors when I consider posting. Thanks again!
She was born for all the wrong reasons but grew up for all the right ones.
Possa Dio riccamente vi benedica, tutto il mio amore, Andrea
Love, Andrea Lena
While I appreciate, and
While I appreciate, and often use, the QuickCuts links, I wonder if they may be contributing to the problem. It's not hard to scroll down the page, and see the stories directly, with their headers, tags, read counts, and comment counts. I generally want to look at those to decide if I want to read a new story, while I use the QuickCuts links to take me to a new instalment of a story serial I know I like.
As an Experiment
Quickcuts has been changed to be 75 hours instead of 50 hours. The type has slightly been reduced, too.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Ah. That's why
I had to squint this morning. I thought my glasses had gone funny.
Penny
I quite like the "Quick Cuts"
They compress a lot of information into a very small compass, so one can see what's happened at a glance.
Every author has the ability to create compendiums of all their stories, and assistance is available for those authors for whom this task might seem daunting, which makes the entire oeuvre of every writer accessible simply by clicking the little "up arrow" between the "previous" and "next" links at the bottom of almost every story.
If you look at Angharad's latest episode of Bike, for example, you'll see most of her other stories (those not resident on Gaby's site) handily displayed off in the margin, so it's very easy to follow the trail if you enjoy her writing and want to see more.
Perhaps more "hypertext" might make the relationships between stories plain, but all these things are readily available.
Cheers,
Liobhan
-
Cheers,
Liobhan
Opinion
These are Angela's opinions, they are not rules.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Maybe I Should Have
. . .put the part about this being a suggestion in BOLD type?
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Maybe :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
The Front Page is going to stay steady
I realize we are undergoing growing pains here but, we are at 10,000 unique visitors to the site daily, several new authors writing here, and some posting their material from other places to here for the first time. BCTS is growing and things are changing. There is no need to fear this change, we need to embrace it and all of our new sisters.
Sephrena
BigCloset TopShelf
TGLibrary.com
Here's an appropriate quote...
"You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."
Of course, the tricky thing is working out what combination of quick cuts / archive pages / front page extracts will please most of the people most of the time.
One controversial idea (would any idea be uncontroversial?) that might speed up some people's access to stories by authors they're familiar with is to re-sort the list of authors (do think I've hedged enough on that sentence? <grin>). Currently it's an alphabetical list of everyone who's ever authored anything on site (I make it 492 excluding New Author/Blogger/Various Hands - impressive, eh?!). I don't know if it's auto-generated or manually compiled, but how about putting those authors that have posted something in the past x months (perhaps 12 months?) at the top of the list as 'Active authors' (still in alphabetical order). The rest would still be present, but at the bottom of the list. It would probably be a better solution than just a simple sort based on posting frequency or last update, as those would change around from day to day.
--Ben
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
I think you're on to something here, dear...
...perhaps a resolution between what currently is being done and the proposals you make...certainly there's room for dialog. I had someone write me just today who expressed appreciation for the comments she had already received, but wondered about the fall off, like you described once our story sinks under the bar at the bottom of the page. I'm sure there's something that can be done to make things a little more balanced and fair.
Oh, hits does sound too intense for this site; perhaps "caress?"
She was born for all the wrong reasons but grew up for all the right ones.
Possa Dio riccamente vi benedica, tutto il mio amore, Andrea
Love, Andrea Lena
Oh, hits does sound too intense...
"Oh, hits does sound too intense for this site; perhaps "caress?""
Or, "tickles"?
Kris
(giggling)
Kris
{I leave a trail of Kudos as I browse the site. Be careful where you step!}
Other terms...
Page impressions (it does a very good impression of A4 paper - and its B5 envelope isn't bad either!)
Page accesses (beloved of hit counters - "This page has been accessed 666 times since the year dot")
Visitors (usually not unique visitors though - a favourite trick to spike web counters is to hit refresh a few dozen times)
And you can't assume 1 IP address = 1 user, as corporate firewalls will appear as a single IP, but there'll be multiple users behind it; and some ISPs allocate fresh dynamic IP addresses to their customers on a daily basis - so single IP filtering is useless (although subnet filtering can be useful if you're being spammed from a specific range of IP addresses)
--Ben
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
Pay for play?
I thought you were going to suggest we start paying for our story placement. That would hold down the story submissions and help pay the bills at the same time. ;-)
JK!
KJT
"Being a girl is wonderful and to torture someone into that would be like the exact opposite of what it's like. I don’t know how anyone could act that way." College Girl - poetheather
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
Great Idea!
And since we'll be paying something, it can be taxed, as it is a financial transaction. The taxes can then be used to pay for the coming health care, or maybe to save the polar bears who are falling off buildings and out of airplanes.
Next Erin and crew could start charging user fees, which would generate more taxes.
Gosh, the possibilities are endless!
Good thinking there, Karen
Nancy Cole
"You may be what you resolve to be."
T.J. Jackson
I Actually Considered Pay for Play This AM
. . .while thinking through this blog.
People don't seem to understand the immense value this site brings to the authors. The opportunity to have your words read and appreciated is what writing is all about. Authors need to bow to the wishes of the site owner to gain that privilege.
Authors must also pay the price of belonging to a community. That price is to do what is best for the community as the whole. . .not just what they want.
My SUGGESTION is in the spirit of community.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I'm old-fashioned :)
If I could figure a way to make it work, I'd pay the authors to post here. As it is, most of the contributions, more than 80% come from authors. And in fact, two people, both authors, contribute more than 1/3 of all the money that comes in - some months, more than 1/2.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Nothing In My Suggestion
. . .takes away from the wonderful job BC is doing. This site is going through constant change which means there is constant re-evaluation. Suggestions are part of that process.
Providing positive content for this site is virtuous. That is a given.
How that content is managed is up for continual comment. That is how community grows.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Yup
I'm actually pleased with this discussion. Suggestions are where I get most of my ideas for improving the site.
No one has commented on the longer QuickCuts yet, I think I'll leave it that way for a few days.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
It looks...
...pretty good. ^__^ Certainly, a longer length makes it a bit more useful, though that increased utility isn't as much of a factor if you're here daily. In any event, I have no problems with reduced font size.
-Liz
-Liz
Successor to the LToC
Formerly known as "momonoimoto"
I think the last thing we
I think the last thing we want to be doing is discouraging new content. While I understand your desire to see your work more widely read (the read counts on my own stories are much smaller than many other authors here, I really do understand), I do hope that your suggested guideline is widely ignored.
So let me get this straight ...
... the "store" is growing by leaps and bounds, with all sorts of new "products" stocking the shelves so quickly sometimes other "products" lose their shelf space after too short a time. So you think we need to queue up and slow how often we stock the shelves, limiting supply just when we seem to be gaining a lot of new "shoppers?"
What does this mean in a non-analogous sort of way? A posting limit per author per day? Per week? Or do we create an administrative bottleneck and let site staff slow the flow to something that gives stories a chance to be seen?
I've had stories pushed off the front page too quickly before, too. It's depressing, but honestly -- does anyone really WANT there to be less content on the site? Isn't that what we come here for? To read, write and share our work and the work of others?
I agree it's a problem. I"m not sure making it harder for people to "stock the shelves" is a good way to keep folks coming to the "store."
I am, however, open to alternate solutions, providing a smart group like this can come up with some. *grin*
Randalynn
I'm Trying to Understand
. . .how you extrapolated "less content" out of what I SUGGESTED.
My SUGGESTIONS were.
Don't post two stories within a week. Don't run two serials at the same time. Don't post your stories in small packages so that you have a new post every day or every other day or every third day or even every fourth day. Don't post a blog to say you're going to post your story that afternoon.
As I see it writers could abide by every one of these suggestions and still postr exactly the same word count over a period of a year. How is that "less content".
To use your store analogy, a grocer sells a huge percentage of the total from the endcaps, which is the equivalent of BC's front page. Those endcaps are closely managed and constantly changed. No store would allow any one product to dominate their endcaps as that would be economic suicide. However, they will have large displays within the aisle of the same products that are on their endcaps.
By the way -- does anyone have hard data to back up the claim that BC is enjoying unprecedented growth? It certainly doesn't seem to be reflected in contributions, which seem to be about the same level they've been for the last two years. BC had tremendous growth while FM was out. But -- is there really actual growth attributable to the other changes?
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Sounds like less content to me, too
Sorry Angela. I don't see how a suggestion to reduce how many posts there are in a day could be seen as anything but a request for less content. And no, you could not necessarily post the same amount in a year if you posted less in each week. Just doesn't work that way.
Yesterday there were 11,531 visitors, the most in any single day since March when FM came back up. There have been days recently with as many as 20 stories (plus 10 or 12 blogs). November this year is on pace to be 7% bigger than November last year when FM was down and SS and SP were not updating.
What is growth? I only ask for $500 a month, so the contributions generally keep pace with that and if I get behind, I ask for some more and get it. Ad revenues are up, though still not as high as they were before Google decided we were a porn site. Money is not my measure of growth.
I hear your complaint and I know it is a real problem. I'll do what I can to ameliorate it but there's only so much I can do and keep the flavor and mission of the site intact.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
What she said. *grin*
If less gets posted per day, it doesn't matter how much you wind up posting in a year -- it still means less content NOW. *shrug*
Randa
I think what Angela suggests
I think what Angela suggests is longer postings, more words or multi chapters. No need to tell people what you have just posted or even that your late to post, those are obvious. Maybe a blog if your going to be weeks late ??
If you have two serials running don't post one every day, post longer versions every second and fourth day giving all the stories more time on the -front page- with no loss of content.
Anyway, for what it's worth the serial stories do make the list churn really fast.
I was under the impression
at least in one area - that small posts be collected together into fewer larger posts. An example... Rather than 1k words a day every other days, an author would post 3k words every sixth day. 1/3 the number of posts, but 3 times the size over the same total time frame. In THIS situation there is no loss in total content.
These numbers are totally hypothetical, and are intended to show an example of how this aspect of her suggestion doesn't result in less total content.
Now, looking at serials... Applying the same logic to serials, but limiting to a single serial in a given week - authors would post 2x as much with each post, but post them in alternating weeks. Again, this results in NET no loss of content. It also allows the two serials to go forward at the same time, without a single author consuming "too much" of the front page.
I'm not 100% convinced that this is better. It's different. I think that it's worth authors looking at this, and the impact of their posting. If you're an author that posts infrequently (for whatever reason), your posts go down the page almost twice as fast as they did last year. I can easily see how may of these authors would be discouraged by the speed with which this happens. I understand the "draw" of regular posting! :-) Been there. But, I also see how my posting of six or eight chapters/episodes/stories/etc. would tend to cause others stuff to scroll down faster.
Another thing I've noticed in the past year is that most author's story blocks (title/teaser) are larger than they were when I started hear about two years ago. In many cases, this extra space is attractively laid out, and draw interest. However, the extra size makes the time required to scroll down to things that are further down on teh page take longer - just physically further to scroll. Studies have been done that show the average human (okay , most of us are not average humans) only scrolls the equivalent to 4-5 page/down operation before quitting. Our home page is much longer than that.
In any event, I appreciate the suggestion, and will think about it when it comes time to post things.
Thank you,
Annette
Not how it works
This is basically asking that every writer work to arbitrary standards for the preference of a few readers. That's not how things work here because not everyone works the same way and not everyone wants the same thing from the writers.
I personally have written a serial here where I posted six times a week. If I had been constrained to post only once or twice a week, the serial would not have been written.
It's a simple fact that not everyone works the same way. The excitement of daily posting and daily feedback became the reason for continuing the story.
So Angela's suggestion can remain a suggestion for those who care to follow it.
Please, don't anyone take Angela's suggestion as discouraging you from posting stories episodes once a day if you like, and post a blog to discuss your story and your writing if you want. This is the BigCloset and we've got room to do it your way.
As for how long the front page is, when people stop clicking on stories in the lower third of the page, regardless of how far down that is, I'll stop making the page so long. But stories keep getting clicks for a week or ten days after posting; that's why the front page is that long.
And that's the way I like it, uh huh.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
These suggestions are not practical for BCTS
BigCloset TopShelf
TGLibrary.com
2) Don't run two serials at the same time. The rule is: 3 different stories or 3 different chapters of 3 different stories daily per author. Not everyone is doing that. That rule could change if a lot of people are doing it, but right now, everything has been manageable and within reason.
3) Don't post your stories in small packages so that you have a new post every day or every other day or every third day or even every fourth day. No can do here! There is a submission word limit for posting - a ceiling. So huge stories cannot be posted beyond a certain point. Serialization and chaptering is encouraged because of this. Also cellphones and palms cannot handle huge story downloads and we keep that in mind with the site design and limitations.
4) Don't post a blog to say you're going to post your story that afternoon. Oh come on here! Some authors have fan bases and have a schedule they keep. They have every right to notify their fans if there will be a delay in posting or not.
Essentially, these suggestions want to turn BCTS back a few years to when it was quiet and slow. That cannot happen. The same way the world population is growing, BCTS's author base and readership is growing. Anything to encourage our growth I will happily pour my time into. We need to grow as a community and share our ideas with one another. We do need to learn tolerance, but we also have to know when change is inevitable, and instead of fighting it, work towards allowing it to expand reasonably.
Should I or Shouldn't I
1.) Perhaps your current procedures are encouraging only a few authors to post at the expense of many others who would be posting if things were different. Isn't that at least worth considering rather than rejecting out of hand.
2.) It's news to me that there's a rule regarding maximums per writer per day. Doesn't the existence of that rule support the need to discuss the SUGGESTION I made. Why is my SUGGESTION "intolerant" when you have a similar rule already in effect? Why is my SUGGESTION cast as fighting expansion, when such a rule has already been implemented and seemingly accepted by you? Why such hostility over a matter of degree? (Reminds me of an old GB Shaw joke.)
3.) Several serials are posted in small word totals that don't come anywhere near even a fourth of the submission word ceiling. Isn't it even worth it to discuss the possibility of combining chapters if that attracts more authors to post more stories?
4.) I'm all for commuication between writers and their fan base. Perhaps I have a problem understanding your aversion to my SUGGESTION because I can easily communicate to my fan base with individual PMs. Here's a bit of wisdom from someone who's been doing this communication thing for a few more years than you; most people find unsolicited communication just a little creepy, unless there's something in it for them. If these blogs are clogging the site's communication they should be avoided. It's like when fax first started and people called to make sure you got their fax. Or when they sent a fax to make sure you got their e-mails.
Really I don't have much problem with you thinking something other than what I do. That is your right. What you don't have a right to do is to make it seem like my SUGGESTIONS are subversive. BC has been a great site for years. It is offensive to me, a partner in this site for many years, that you speak negatively about the BC of the past.
BC is changing. Some changes are good, some are not. The basic philosophies of BC haven't changed all that much since the first day I was here, nearly a decade ago when Erin invited me to post my stories here. That consistency has been wonderful and is wonderful. That consistency of maintaining a sound, positive philosophy is "success".
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Small posts
Writing huge chunks of text at one sitting is a daunting task for many authors, and committing to small deadlines every day is exactly how many authors train themselves to be better writers, using forums like this one, or the NaNoWriMo site (and its associated sites) where one tries to write an entire novel in one month.
http://www.nanowrimo.org/
The winners of this month's NaNoWriMo exercise won a free hardcopy of their novel from CreateSpace, plus savings coupons for a number of useful writing tools, including half off on Scrivener, plus a trial version that lasts long enough to do some serious writing, which is not a bad deal at all for something that costs exactly nothing.
Script Frenzy is from the same outfit:
http://www.scriptfrenzy.org/
but concentrates on screenplays for television and the cinema, although there's nothing to prevent scripts for the legitimate theatre being used instead.
June Novel Writing Month:
http://julnowrimo.com/
and there are many more...
Cheers,
Puddin'
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
So what are the limits?
Given that I am working on a large serial story and I also post poetry and parodies, what are the limits? Both in size and volume per day?
Some of my chapters can be over 20,000 words so I guess I need to know this.
Kate
"While the rest of the human race are descended from monkeys, redheads derive from cats."
Kate
"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." William Gibson
Between 40,000 - 50,000 words
BigCloset TopShelf
TGLibrary.com
Angela, I think that the
Angela,
I think that the discussion of ideas for improving the front page access is definitely worthy of merit. I would not personally like to put your first restriction into place, because limiting the number of unique stories per week, would limit content, potentially.
I think Jenni pointed out that only one part of a series is allowed to remain on the front page per week, and I absolutely agree with that.
There is definitely an audience for the daily posting serials, whether that is something like Bike, or back when it was posting regularly Edeyn's diary story.
If it weren't difficult, I would like to see the retro classics given a space on the sides, rather then take up valuable front page. That is different from stories that have never been on BCTS before.
In the time that I have been here, I think that the front page items seem to have gotten larger. Maybe that isn't true, but almost everyone now has a fairly large graffic teaser. There were some rules as to what was allowed in the FP teaser section, it's been a while though, but I think quite a few of the front page stories, (maybe even my own) violate those rules.
Don't know the answer, but it never hurts to discuss ideas for improving the site. Erin says she welcomes the discussion, and I agree.
We have talked before about how to get people to see older stories, maybe and I don't know what it would take to do so, probably too much but its worth asking, a random or pseudo random sideline story of the hour. Have the site just start a putting an old story on a sideline block. Not with the full front page format, just the title and author, and an encouragement of the community to comment even if you had commented originally if it was one you liked before, as a way of providing a "review" of the story.
Just some thoughts.
Kristy
I don't have a problem with serials...
In fact, I've written one serial novel, and am in the slow process of another.
I believe the complaint was that several authors, recently, have started serials that appear to have 500 words to maybe 1,000 words a post. I understand that this may be all they write at a sitting. And, they want to get it up for their fans to follow. I believe the suggestion was only that authors consider posting the serials in fewer, larger blocks, rather than the current smaller ones - in an effort to allow other's stuff to have some time at the top of the list.
Yes, a serial is only on the list once (okay, many are there twice for a while, but it does go back to once again). But one that posts every other day will tend to have one "chapter" near the top of the list all the time, rather than crawl down over time, and after aging, a new one go to the top. The net effect is that authors of serials that post regularly tend to have their serial staying near the top of the list while those that post less often, find theirs moving down the list faster than is perhaps fare.
I'm not suggesting that Erin place minimum word limits on posts, nor do I believe anyone else has suggested this. I think that the suggestion that those of us who are authors that post regularly, think about the impact of a large number of small posts may have on other authors and their chance to have their stories read.
As was indicated at the beginning of this thread, comments (& votes) are most common when stories are in the top 1/3 of the front page (No - that's not how it was described - it was described in the form of days - but that's the net effect). The next 1/3 gets some comments, but they're much rarer. Comments after a post is off the front page - those are very rare (& cherished by me anyway, and I suspect by other authors).
I've enjoyed listening to the comments expressed in this thread. I think the discussion is well worth while. I've not been so happy with a few voices that seemed to want to say that the suggestions were way out of line or shouldn't have been made. (I could be reading into things stuff not intended. It IS late here! So, take that with a grain of salt.)
Annette
You walk into a book shop...
...and there are a few tables immediately either side of the door displaying latest publications, along with their space-consuming publicity material.
But they are always the expensive hardbacks, so you walk on a bit more and you come to the rest of the store. Maybe there's a top 100 book set of shelves - and maybe not. But for all these books, only the spine is displayed and they are put into some semblance of order so you can find the kind of stories you are looking for. The important point is that the vast majority of customers are beyond the front tables, browsing the main stock, rather than simply looking at the front desks.
What is clearly happening here - and I do it myself so I can't condemn it - is that everyone is crowding around the front tables, and few are getting to the main store, where there are thousands of excellent stories waiting for us.
Angela is absolutely correct in that there's a limited amount of space on the front tables. But I simply cannot see that those authors who are good at attracting attention are now simply going to give up what they have been doing in order to allow Angela and me (OK, a cat can look at a King!) more space on the front table.
I think the answer is to consider how to make the main store more attractive, so more readers walk past the front tables and come inside. Perhaps the equivalent of showing only the spine of the book inside the store is to inhibit pictures! I raised the issue a few days ago of the problem of long series of stories which clog up page after page of searches. And why, once the story has come off the front table, is date considered the best order in which to display stories. Can you imagine walking into a book store and seeing everything displayed in date order!
So, I'm actually arguing the complete opposite of Angela. Rather than making recent stories more visible, I'd like to see all stories more visible, with less emphasis on recent items.
If you ever consider going to a format similar to a book store..
...could we have a Coffee and Juice Bar, maybe tucked in just under "Who's New" or "Skin Horse" Yes?
She was born for all the wrong reasons but grew up for all the right ones.
Possa Dio riccamente vi benedica, tutto il mio amore, Andrea
Love, Andrea Lena
I quite like things as they are
And I have more past episodes than anyone else, many of which don't garner votes from later readers, and which may only have single figure hits for a week.
I don't have a problem with the word hits either, they could hardly be called reads, because we don't know that anyone does actually read them unless they comment. All we know is someone has accessed that story or page. A hit can also mean something very popular - or is that the reason for disliking the word?
Angharad
Angharad
Past episodes
Any with the good luck to stumble across later episodes of Bike is doing themselves a real disservice if they don't take the opportunity to find out how they got there.
While the length might seem daunting at first, remember that it was written one day at a time. Reading it is every bit as easy.
Cheers,
Puddin'
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
It might not be ...
A good idea but how about... This is the phase my wife and use when one of us to about to propose something that other might not like. Part of BC's problem is that it is having growing pains. When I reposted several of my stories to StarDust a few readers thought they were new material because the stories had disappeared from the (not the front page, but from easy view).
Might I suggest that since StarDust has a similar posting method as BC that more of us post over there? Perhaps even a second story index at BC for the stories at StarDust so no one feel they are being exiled?
Angela mentioned supply and demand, so why not expand? The majority of the stories at BC fits Stardust's no underage sex or incest standards anyways.
Let's face it that Bob and Erin works closely together anyways and he has unused 'room.' That said my major problem with my own idea is the idea of 'exiled.' It would have to be voluntary, but there are a lot of cross over between the two sites anyways.
Another problem with the idea is that if certain genre's began using Stardust then readers at BC who might not normally read such things might miss out on some good stuff. For instance, how many times have you tried a story that doesn't sound quiet like what you like, but you found yourself a real gem?
There would be problems, but we are a creative bunch here and I'm sure solutions could be found. So what does everyone think?
Hugs!
Grover
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