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I don't do stuff like this very often, in fact, I've never done it. I'm asking for everyone who can and does not fear to do so to go to every social news and networking sites they can and make sure that this action by Amazon does not get "disappeared." We are here, we read books, we buy books and we will not be stuffed into a closet, even if some of us live in one.
Spread this idea on other bulletin boards and social networking sites like:
http://Twitter.com
http://Facebook.com
http://Myspace.com
http://LiveJournal.com
http://WordPress.com
Here's a site that has a list of other social networks, some of which are appropriate and some not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites
Go to Google and find other sites that talk about this subject. Mark this post and other such posts on other sites in social bookmarking sites like:
http://Digg.com
http://Del.icio.us
http://Reddit.com
http://Fark.com
http://StumbleUpon.com
http://Slashdot.com
And increase the rankings of such sites talking about this in the social news/bookmarking networks by visiting the sites or otherwise increasing their rank by voting for them.
If you feel brave enough and mad enough, email Amazon and tell them how you feel.
Find other online news outlets and send them notice of this new attempt by Amazon to suppress GLBT literature.
Latest news is that Amazon is saying this was a "glitch." A glitch that involved emails from customer relations explaining that it was deliberate new policy? I don't think so. You know me, I'm willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt but in this case there really is no doubt that SOMEONE at Amazon did this deliberately. Let them know how big a mistake it was.
Hugs to all,
Erin
More info
According to some, with documentation, Amazon has been doing this since February. Which may explain why I can't get any TG books to list in the Amazon widget that is supposed to work on keywords since about that time.
Here's a post with some links: http://atara.livejournal.com/582330.html
Glitch-my-bright-blue-ass!
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
#amazonfail #glitchmyass
#amazonfail is the biggest trend in Twitter history at the moment, and is being coupled with #glitchmyass due to the claims by Amazon execs that it's all just a "glitch"
Point: Ron Jeremy's autobiography is still ranked. Ellen Degeneres' autobiography is not. Ellen's is "adult content" but Jeremy's is not, according to Amazon.
Big trend on Amazon at the moment is to tag LGBTQI books with the tag, #amazonfail so that they can be searched there.
LA Times
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2009/04/amazon-de...
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
What did Amazon do?
I am sure that I have missed the begining of this discussion. What exactly did Amazon do? I just spent about 30 min entering key words in thier search bar such as transsexual, transgender and crossdress, all auto displaying extended sub-catagories. I also entered Ellen Degeneres and retrived a list of books by and about her. I am more than willing to give my support in combating discrimination of our community but I also need to be sure of exactly what form that discrimination is taking before attacking a company that seems quite open in the items they carry. I mean I don't think I could walk into Wal Mart and pick-up a gaf or a book on how to present as a woman and they are a "major retailer" if anyone is. Thank you for any additional information you feel you can provide.
Cindy Robison
Sales ranking
Amazon stopped reporting sales ranking for many GLBT themed books. This caused them to be ranked much lower (zero is low) in sales results which means that they got ranked lower in search results, like at the end. That's the short answer.
Amazon is apparently trying to undo this as it seems to have been accomplished by some group or organization going through and making complaints about GLBT books as being "adult" content, meaning pornography. Amazons automatic systems simply treated these complaints as legitimate, though in some cases humans have actually reviewed the situation and corrected things only to have it happen again.
This is why I don't have numerical voting for stories on BC. Amazon has been bitten by this hard and they have been trying, apparently since February, to keep it quiet and make it go away.
I don't want it to disappear, I want the corporatos to have to actually do something about it. Like eliminate the automatic acceptance of any tag someone wants to put on a book. It's stupid and irresponsible to the authors and publishers who do business with Amazon and to readers who want to find things.
This could have been done with any sort of book, movie or music. Like someone could have gone through and tagged all Christian literature as being "adult" and Amazon would have done the same thing.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
More than just a tag?
If you do a search for "Homosexuality" now, all of the books on the first page are 'prevention' and 'cure' themed ones. Does anyone really think those are all of the best selling books on that topic? Could one person adding just one 'adult' tag to any book cause this to happen? It seems like someone at Amazon must have a role to me.
{ added: Opps - Marlene said the samething in more detail just below. Teach me to jump in without reading everything.]
Merchants who become so
Merchants who become so successful that they then begin to dictate to customers what they should and should not buy, deserve what they always get, which is that the customers they displease will spend their money somewhere else, with another merchant, instead. There are a number of alternatives, like Lulu for example.
We do not NEED "Amazon". She it is who needs US! We, the Customers, made Amazon into a for the moment successful business, and WE can turn it into a loss-making little gang of bigots, if we like, too!
It is bad enough when bigots pretending to be polits get into regimes and start telling people what they must and must not do - when merchants try joining in, the time comes to turn away from them and fart in their faces ( sorry if that sounds rude, but I mean it to - who the hell do they think they are?)
Briar
Briar
It really is possible...
...that Amazon has been targeted by some hate group to warp their system of tagging books. They are trying to cover this up and they have not done a good job of being honest with people complaining about it because it has apparently been going on for months.
Generally speaking, Amazon is more GLBT friendly than most companies, so I'm willing to give them time to straighten this out. But I don't want the pressure on them slacked off until they do straighten it out.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
It appears that this was a targeted attempt to embarrass Amazon
A hacker attack.
Amazon has relatively recently today made a statement on it, without going into detail on how it was done
From PC World online, April 13, 2009, way down in the last paragraph of the article at the following URL. ( Italics are mine, Holly )
http://www.pcworld.com/article/163024/hacker_claims_credit_f...
.
.
Update: Amazon spokesperson Drew Herdener responded via e-mail shortly after this story's publication. He initially described the issue as "an embarrassing and ham-fisted cataloging error." When asked specifically whether Amazon had any stance on the hacker's claims of involvement, he responded only by stating that it was "an embarrassing and ham-fisted cataloging error by *Amazon*" (his emphasis). Herdener did point out that the effects were not limited to gay- and lesbian-themed titles: Nearly 60,000 products were impacted, he says, including titles within the site's health and mind & body sections. The errors, Herdener indicates, are being corrected as quickly as possible.
.
.
Amazon did not do a good job of handling it, true, but let's also point out that this apparently happened on a weekend.
Erin, it also appears, if the hacker is correct, that it did not take very many 'inappropriate' tags by 'customers' to make books diappear before this happened, so that may explain ranked books that went away earlier.
Five books I looked for yesterday, that weren't there, are back tonight.
.
Holly
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
Holly
Thank you.
Thank you,
So its not so much something malicious Amazon did as it is a problem in how they respond to thier coustomers inputs.
I agree that this is somthing to be watched and for our community to urge Amazon to actively work on correcting. Once again thank you for taking the time to explain your concerns in greater detail.
Cindy
Amazon IS homophobic!!
I went to the LA Times story and commented there, and on their comment list someone entered "homosexuality" on their search engine and got an interesting result, so I did the same. Here's what come up:
A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality by Joseph Nicolosi and Linda Ames Nicolosi (ANTI-gay!)
You Don't Have to Be Gay: Hope and Freedom for Males Struggling With Homosexuality or for Those Who Know of Someone Who Is by Jeff Konrad (ANTI-gay!)
For The Bible Tells Me So DVD ~ Gene Robinson, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, and Imogene Robinson (Pro-gay)
Can Homosexuality Be Healed? by Francis MacNutt (ANTI-gay!)
Furthermore, on the LA Times thread, someone entered Heather Has Two Mommies, and it came up as "adult" content! I think NOT!
This is nothing more than an attempt by a uncaring media behemoth seeming to knuckle under to the American Taliban.
Tell Amazon to go screw themselves and go buy your TLBG books at your *local* store! You'll be saving local jobs, folks!
Doing my best to pi$$ off the religious reicht!
Probably used the wrong search word...
The word "homosexuality" tends to be used most by people who are distressed by the idea. Looking for "lesbian" turns up these category heads:
The Gymnast ~ Dreya Weber, Addie Yungmee, John Lee Ames, and Andrew Ableson (DVD - Sep 18, 2007) See all 2,078 items
Lesbian Couples: A Guide to Creating Healthy Relationships by Ph.D. D.Merilee Clunis and Ph.D. G. Dorsey Green (Paperback - Nov 30, 2004) See all 71,415 items
Exes and Ohs - The Complete First Season ~ Michelle Paradise, Marnie Alton, Angela Featherstone, and Megan Cavanagh (DVD - May 20, 2008) See all 2,078 items
Key Chain Watch of Gay Lesbian Rainbow Pride Flag by Carson's Collectibles See all 2,048 items
Lesbian Sex Tips: A Guide for Anyone Who Wants To Bring Pleasure to the Woman She (Or He) Loves by Tracey Stevens and Katherine Wunder (Paperback - Oct 24, 2002) See all 71,415 items
The Kiss (Two Lesbian Girls) Poster Print - 16" X 20" by Adam Hersh Posters - See all 832 items
with hundreds, or tens of thousands of items underneath.
From the readily-accessible items revealed by a casual search, it's fairly clear that Amazon.com isn't on quite the rampage that has been described, and some of the angry comments have been premature. Now that it's been picked up by the mainstream press, I suspect they will be doing some serious backpeddling come Monday.
A lot of the books that have had their rankings removed are no longer in print, and the only reason Amazon carries them is to extract their commission from their external merchants. Since they aren't actually selling the books, it actually makes a kind of sense for these books, and these alone, to have their sales rankings removed.
And it may be that some sub-group of Amazon employees has been "taking matters into their own hands," as is quite common in libraries and even bookstores, where "homosexual" books are routinely stolen, defaced, or destroyed in a corrupt attempt to control the thinking of their fellow citizens.
It's good that they've been told, in no uncertain terms, that censorship, even indirect censorship like this, is wicked and wrong, but I suspect that it really *is* a "glitch," because, if it was intentional, I suspect (I'm not a lawyer so I can't guarantee this) that it would be a conspiracy in restraint of trade *and* a violation of Washington's anti-discrimination laws for GLBT persons in "public accommodations," which covers businesses and stores selling to the public. This is Seattle, folks, and Amazon.com has a *lot* of GLBT people working for them. I'd almost guarantee that this is a *huge* embarrassment for them.
Years ago, during the last big recession, I actually interviewed with the firm, even though I'm irritated by all firms of of that ilk, and was offered a job, together with recommendations about the company lesbian group and notable venues in the city. The HR people were quite comfortable with the idea of hiring me, as were all the people I interviewed with, and the city is fine (as long as you don't care for sunshine), but I wound up with another job in California, as it came up a week later, while I was still "thinking about it," and it was in a building overlooking the Pacific on the edge of a high bluff; it paid better besides. Best job I ever had. I bought half a dozen pairs of binoculars so we could all run outside and look at the whales as they cruised by...
Puddin'
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
A Bit Wound Up
I've been up far too late reading all about this. From what I've seen, it looks like it's been a major screw up that Amazon isn't trying too hard to fix. I think it's important to put pressure on Amazon to fix this as soon as possible (or sooner!).
Here's a petition I found that I signed. You might want to sign it too.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/in-protest-at-amazons-new-a...
- Terry
What is a GLBT?
Please forgive this noob for asking such a noobish question, but what is a GLBT?
GLBT
GLBT stands for Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transsexual
it may be different in other languages. In French you say LGBT for example (don't ask me why, guess it sounds better)
Women come first...
...in the French mind, even (perhaps especially) lesbians. Vive la différence!
Puddin'
---------------
There are a bunch more:
GLBTTQ = Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transsexual, Transgender, Two-Spirit* and Queer
will suffice as a placeholder. You can freely add whatever oppressed minority you want to the string, say... OATVPH, One-Armed Transvestite Paper-Hangers, and I've seen strings with way more than a dozen letters. I suspect, but cannot prove, that this may be carrying political correctness a bit too far, as one never knows if it's a joke, unless you're close enough to see the wild-eyed stare and foam at the edges of the speaker's lips.
Oooh! Here's one: GLBTQ = Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender and Questioning
It's used a lot in youth qroups to encompass those who don't know exactly what they are, but it doesn't seem exactly like everyone seems to expect.
----
* A Native American term for gender-variant and/or queer folk, both of whom insist on precise terms based on their personal sense of identity and affiliation.
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
most all-inclusive
That I've seen is GLBTQQI/LGBTQQI
Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender Queer Questioning Intersex
Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Queer Questioning Intersex
I still...
Think that the term used in the Tuck serial for a school based GLBT group is the best. GLEE Club. Gay Lesbian and Everything Else. I expect its taken from somewhere else first but I still like it. ;)
JC
The Legendary Lost Ninja
BLTTG???
I think the order of the acronym letters, only makes a difference when one is in a deli ordering lunch. - to go?
with love,
Hope
with love,
Hope
Once in a while I bare my soul, more often my soles bear me.
In order to get some dark humor out of this ...
I used to describe it a BLT & G (Bacon, Lettuce, Tomatto and Grease.) Very few people ever knew the difference.
OOPs, sooooo sorrry.
I'll quietly go to my room now. What was that? "Lock the door?" Yes, Master.
Gwendolyn
CNN and CNET coverage of this issue
CNET has posted an article at:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10217715-93.html?tag=newsLa...
and CNN has added a link to it in their Tech News section.
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/
Amazon is already backpedaling and characterizing it as an "error" in their ranking system.
Bob Arnold
Sue The Bastards!
Okay... I'm more of a systems-logic person than any sort of expert on law. So, what follows is a "legal" theory which might not have any validity whatsoever, but I'd be most grateful if anyone who's interested would pursue it enough to find out.
New York City has a wonderful, broadly-written Human Rights law, which bans discrimination in a wide area of venues, including housing, public accomodation and employment, whether based on race, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference, gender, or gender presentation/status (i.e. TG). In NY State, as in other places, "public accomodation" refers to businesses providing services to the general public, such as stores, restaurants, bars, hotels, batting ranges, arcades, etc.
Due to a recent settlement with the NY State Attorney General, and others, Amazon is now collecting sales tax for the State and City of New York. That puts them, at least tenuously, within the legal jurisdiction.
I don't think it would be too big a stretch for a NYC-based TG or Gay/Lesbian author to bring suit against Amazon in a NY court for discrimination which affected their livelihood.
There are also a couple of organizations who would love to handle the legal business on their behalf.
"Glitch"
Here's something from Feministing about the Amazon story:
http://www.feministing.com/archives/014797.html
She seems to have a generally dark take on this.
Puddin'
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Claim of Responsibility
Someone out there is claiming responsibility for this whole thing:
http://valleywag.gawker.com/5210142/why-it-makes-sense-that-...
Scott
-- Moliere
Bree
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.
-- Tom Clancy
http://genomorph.tglibrary.com/ (Currently broken)
http://bree-ramsey314.livejournal.com/
Twitter: @genomorph
Info on PC World
Here's the article from the PC World Version:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/162996/amazon_glitch_yanks_lg...
Winter
Some resolution to Amazon ranking problem
This is from an Ars Technica article:
""Many books have now been fixed and we're in the process of fixing the remainder as quickly as possible, and we intend to implement new measures to make this kind of accident less likely to occur in the future," Amazon told us."
Here's the link where I found the above quote:
http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009/04/amazon-rank-kerfuffl...
Gleaning info from several other sites, this seems to be what happened:
Amazon is implying that their user ranking system got gamed in some organized way over a period of time. The gaming may have took the form of flooding Amazon with complaints about some books (not just GLBT books) that tripped automatic systems that removed those books from the sale ranking lists pending human review. The amount of books so targeted amounted to more than the people assigned to do reviews could handle so the system broke down.
The above scenario is speculative based on what could be done to the system Amazon had in place. Amazon's remedy is likely to take the form of additional software "tripwires" that will stop floods of complaints being accepted automatically.
I've checked a number of the books that had been de-ranked and yes, their rankings have been restored. Some searches are still not working correctly but there is lag in the system since it is a distributed, self-replicating database that needs time to get itself completely in sync.
I'm taking this issue off MY front burner and letting Amazon have the rest of the week to try to solve their problems.
Hugs to all,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
also here, from seattle pi
http://blog.seattlepi.com/amazon/archives/166329.asp?from=bl...
Personally, I would have appreciated a more proactive response from Amazon ... something like "We fucked up *bigtime*! Sorry. We're fixing it." It appears that the quote posted in the link above is approximately the PR equivalent (minus the remorse).
Amy!
Very Good Link - Thanks
There's also a link on that page to a discussion about what happened and how the company reacted from an unnamed Amazon employee: http://blog.seattlepi.com/amazon/archives/166384.asp
Their public relations people (or management) haven't done a good job talking about this yet. I agree, that they need to apologize. Whether it was intentional or not, their business practices led to an error that got a lot of people upset. This episode also points out the danger of scripted (pick the best one that fits) answers by customer service. The Internet has made it much harder for companies to blow off individuals over product or service issues.
Interesting
If this is true, why not apologize immediately? Instead, Amazon is acting like a cat trying to cover up on linoleum. They've implied in other interviews that someone gamed the system and in fact, some hackers have claimed credit. Now this story.
It looks like someone is floating theories to see which ones are pumice and which are basalt. And still no apology,
According to Amazon this affected close to 60,000 book titles. I don't know if anyone knows how many books 60,000 is if you have them all in one place but there are small town libraries that have fewer books than that. Sixty thousand paperbacks will fill a good size truck.
We may never find out what really happened but this has cost Amazon a lot of good will and they don't seem to realize that.
HUgs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Guardian feature re Amazon GLBT literature ban
The Guardian newspaper published this article today on the same subject so there seems to be a quite a head of steam developing.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2009/apr/13/amazon-gay-wri...
Geoff