Yesterday, when I'd gone grocery shopping, I passed a few Girl Scouts selling cookies. That started a kernel of an idea rolling around my head. I woke up early this morning with a first scene in my head, which is inserted below.
=-=-=
The red-faced grown-up who'd been yelling at me and my aunt eventually stopped to take a breath. The only sound that came next was the box of Janegirl Scout cookies slipping from my numb fingers, and bouncing on the sidewalk in front of the supermarket.
"How dare you," Aunt Marnie said in a fierce whisper. Her arm was warm and gentle when she wrapped it around my shoulders, but her voice was cold and hard when she said in a louder voice, "How dare you say something so vile to my nephew."
Just as the woman standing in front of us opened her mouth, one of the doors to the supermarket whooshed open, and a man who sorta looked like a cop marched up to us. "I was told there was a disturbance out here,"
The woman turned on him while pointing at me and saying, "This little f--"
The man help up a hand and said, "One moment." He pulled a large phone from his shirt pocket while saying, "Before you continue, I'm required to inform you this conversation is being recorded."
=-=-=
And then I stopped, because I really had no idea what store security can actually do. Is there anyone out there who has experience with being a store security guard, or have any advice on what is usually allowed or not allowed?
Comments
Were they made of...
... real Janegirl scouts?
-- Daphne Xu (a page of contents)
On store property
They have all the authority of a police officer. Though they generally concern themselves with shop lifting. That said, I doubt that the security office would arrest anyone for assault (even a verbal threat is assault) but he might well record the exchange. He can and, assuming he's sympathetic, order the woman off the premises and ban her with the threat of trespass should she come back.
Great hook for the start of a story that has flash backs to the nephew's journey becoming a janegirl as the situation is resolved.
Should the woman not submit to his authority, he would likely call the police and provide a physical barrier between the woman and the janegirl scout.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
actually
a store security person has no police powers. They can detain suspected shoplifters with minimal force, at least in my state by law, but so can any employee of the store. They can ask disorderly persons to leave or be charged with trespassing. Where it gets a little murkier is when the shoplifter gets violent. The other point that might be relevant to this story is that the trespassing thing also applies to the stores parking lot if it is owned or rented by them. All of this assumes that the store is not using off duty police officers for security.
Technically, a police officer has no more right………
To arrest someone than any other person does. They are simply paid to enforce the laws and authorized by whatever civil authority to do so. The term “citizen’s arrest” has become a joke, but it is in fact real. Some states may restrict exactly what a person may arrest another for, and you don’t actually even have to be a “citizen”. More accurately it should be a “person’s arrest”.
The issue of course becomes how you detain the person you are arresting; it can be complicated as this could get into false imprisonment or illegal imprisonment. Not to mention what happens if the person resists arrest! How much force can you legally use, and what happens if the person you are detaining against their will is innocent? Hence the illegal imprisonment.
But the bottom line here is that anyone can record what happens in public; as long as at least one of the parties is aware the conversation is being recorded, it is legal. Hence all the cell phone videos that we see posted on line or showing up on the news. Also, if someone steps into a physical fight and breaks it up, I think that a court of law would be OK with a reasonable use of force - unless someone gets seriously hurt anyway.
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
I'll just say
That the rights an officer of the law has are determined by the state, and can vary by state. Much of what you said would not stand up in my state.
While the right to record in public is generally determined by the US Constitution as interpreted by the US Supreme Court, there are still states and municipalities that have laws on the books limiting those rights and if the lower courts uphold those laws it could cost you some money to get them overturned, money you may not get back. With monkeyman in the orange office things could get iffy. He and his vice-monkey are already starting to display a tendency to violate laws they don't like. Court rulings, even US Supreme Court rulings, require law enforcement to uphold those rulings. If various levels of law enforcement choose not to uphold those rulings then a constitutional crisis is in the making*. Before sticking your neck out these days, it might be best to ensure the heads man is not standing next to you, waiting.
* Something I am sadly expecting in the next four years.
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
To clarify this…….
39 states only require one party of the conversation to be aware of and consent to the recording of a conversation for it to be legal. The other 11 states require the consent of all parties, with notable exceptions which include police, emergency workers, etc.
Single party consent is fulfilled if the person making the recording says something in the recording, as that means they were a party to the conversation and gave their consent to be recorded. Where the consent of all parties is required, then implied consent becomes the critical determining factor in the legality of the recording.
It should be noted that the law interprets consent to be given if a person knows that they are being recorded and does not object at the beginning of the recording. That is referred to as “implied consent” and is why it is common when dealing with customer service on a telephone call for a statement to be made at the beginning of the call that “this call may be recorded for training purposes.” If you stay on the line, then your consent to be recorded is implied. The same is true of you are recording something with your cell phone - as it is obvious you are doing so, consent is implied if the person being recorded does not stop you from doing so. This is why people are able to record police and later post the recordings - if they don’t specifically tell every single person to stop recording, consent is implied.
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
11 States
Are not compliant with recent Supreme Court rulings.
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb