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Permission:
“I’m sorry Mr. White, but we can’t honor your request to have your birth certificate altered. It’s clearly against the law.”
“Will you at least have the courtesy to call me Miss?! What do you it’s mean against the law?”
“To have your birth certificate changed to female, one of the stipulations is that you have to be infertile. It clearly says so right here.”
“So because I’m the first to make it all the way, I can’t be recognized as such?”
“You are obviously still fertile sir, so therefore you cannot be female legally.”
“Obviously?!?! I’m pregnant damnit! AAAarrgh!”
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To explain this drabble I have to tell a little bit about how things are done in the Netherlands. I don’t know if the same stipulation exists in other countries, but in the Netherlands it turns out that you need to be infertile to be considered for changing the birth certificate. The document from the doctor that explains you’ve had surgery needs to say that you’ve had the operation AND that you are now forever unable to have children.
Love,
Amber 
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Changing a birth certificate
in the US requires that the surgeon issues a written statement saying that you are no longer male, and that you have had the surgeies making you female, on his or her letterhead, and that the surgeon performed the surgeries. Then the state where you were born will change the sex designation on the birth certificate, but the original birth certificate with the original sex is kept on file.
The law you explained they have in the Netherlands is ridiculous and higly discriminatory. I would think a transgendered person being pregnant would be prima facie evidence that the person IS female. I would think. Thank you for sharing this with us.
Be strong, because it is in our strength that we can heal.
Love & Hugs,
Barbara
"With confidence and forbearance, we will have the strength to move forward."
Love & hugs,
Barbara
"If I have to be this girl in me, Then I have the right to be."
laying down the law
Well, I'm presuming that once medicine gets so far that being a fertile woman after m2f surgery becomes a possibility, that the laws will be changed. The Netherlands is quite a relaxed country concerning things like that i think. I think it has more to do with the fact of it being irreversible. If the old equipment was just hidden and it could be 'undone' they wouldn't allow changing the certificate.
What's even more ridiculous is that said document is only valid for a short time.. 3 or 6 months i think. What? will it grow back after that time? god i hope not.. (p.s., a year has passed an nothing has grown back...:P)
Love,
Amber
Almost true ...
Whether or not the birth certificate can be changed, and how to go about it, varies from state to state, and at my last information Ohio, Tennessee & Idaho just flat refuse to change the gender on it under any circumstances.
Some require a court order, ans some will do it as Barbara indicated.
And in some states, it is up to the county courts.
In 2002, in Pennsylvania, County Judge Thomas Ling stated, "Gender is based on the number of matched genes and chromosomes. Sex organs are secondary,I would have to be presented with a blood test showing the gender." in the case of an F2M plaintiff.
State law did not define proof of gender change, and apparently he did not wish to grant the request, so he made up his own definition of proof.
It was going to be appealed to the legislature to change it, but I am unaware of the outcome.
Holly
One of the most difficult things to give away is kindness.
It usually comes back to you.
Holly
Is it the case ...
... that you could get your birth certificate changed if you used a court in the most sympathetic state and it would apply throughout the US? Or could you be in the position of having a different gender if you crossed a state boundary? If that were the case it would be truly bizarre. The US differs from most (all?) European countries in that laws can change significantly from place to place. It seems to me that in some respects the USA is analogous to the EU rather than to an individual state such as the UK or (say) France. Would that be a reasonable assumption to make?
I'm not sure if this was intended to be funny but it certainly made me laugh. But then, a lot of humour has a serious intent. Thanks.
Geoff
Unfortunately, no, that won't work
Birth Certificates are controlled by the original issuing government body or a higher government body, but only as high as state level. The US Gov't has stayed out of this.
So someone born in Ohio, Tennessee or Idaho cannot get the gender on their birth certificate changed.
And on most places, the state is the one setting the rules. Even in the case I cited in Pennsylvania,it was a state law, but too vaguely worded, It merely said, Proof of change of gender is required, and the judge apparently decided, ( wanted to decide? ) that change of Gender meant that it meant change of sex at teh chromosomal level.
As to your last question, you are right that the US is more like the EU, as opposed to its member states. Some laws apply only within a state, because the US Government hasn't taken the right away from teh states to make a law.
(US Constitution - )Article. IV. - The States
Section 1 - Each State to Honor all others
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
( Except, of course, that other states may decide not to honor same gender/same sex marriages performed in other states.)> Holly, be careful, don't bite your tongue off sticking it in your cheek that way!
One of the most difficult things to give away is kindness.
It usually comes back to you.
Holly
One of the most difficult things to give away is kindness.
It usually comes back to you.
Holly
Exactamundo!
> It seems to me that in some respects the USA is analogous to the EU rather than to an individual state such as the UK or (say) France. Would that be a reasonable assumption to make?
The full name - "United States of America" - sort of spells it out?
In fact, two of the States were at one time independent republics, which then petitioned to join the Union. Granted, California was only such for about a month, before forces from the United States captured the Mexican provincial capitol at Monterey and declared California a "territory of the United States"; it was admitted into the Union four years later. So far as I know, Texas is the only state other than the original 13 that never went through a period of being a U.S. "territory".
The Federalist model was such that the U.S. government was supposed to be only strong enough to assure the security of the member states against outside intervention, and that the individual states would see to justice and equity on their own individual terms. That model began unraveling in the 1850s and was honored mostly in the breach after 1912.
Deni
Population Control?
Religion's and government's basic purpose is to protect its populations from sin and anarchy. Could it be that someone does not want the transgendered to reproduce?
I am a grain of sand on a near beach; a nova in the sky, distant and long.
In my footprints wash the sea; from my hands flow our universe.
Fact and fiction sing a legendary song.
Trickster and Creator are its divine verse.
--Old Man CoyotePuma
I am a grain of sand on a near beach; a nova in the sky, distant and long.
In my footprints wash the sea; from my hands flow our universe.
Fact and fiction sing a legendary song.
Trickster/Creator are its divine verse.
--Old Man CoyotePuma
Never ascribe to malice ...
... that which can reasonably ascribed to stupidity or incompetence.
The Dutch law was almost certainly written to discourage flip-flopping, such as the case of Thomas Beatie. By certifying that the patient is now "sterile" there is less chance that another change of mind will complicate matters ever further, via another application to change the certificate back.
This story is an excellent illustration of the risks involved in trying the codify every little thing into "the law". All too often, the law is a "D8" (Caterpillar) when what is needed for sorting things out is a tongue depressor. Moreover, the more that a law is modified to allow for exceptions, the more unwieldy it becomes.
Deni
don't want us to reproduce?
If that were the case, I think they'd make it far easier for us to make our choices and transition earlier in life (inexpensively) so that it became unnecessary for us to fake 'normal' lives which often do result in relationships that include children. And shame on you for making me wistful about conspiracy theories...
Perhaps I'm mistaken
but I suspect the law about being unable to reproduce, after a surgery, is meant to allow someone to legally change gender after an orchiectomy, which is a much less expensive surgery.
That's how it works in Ontario, Canada. A "sex change surgery" must be proven, but an orchi is considered as such, and sufficient to change gender status. Not so here in Quebec... here you must get SRS, have the surgeon's letter, and a second doctor's letter to confirm the deed was done.