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A character that I am writing, a most exceptional young lady, writes and speaks 5 languages, English, Spanish, Arabic, Urdu, and Afghani. She writes two ancient languages that she uses for scholarly study. She has a Phd. in Archeology, and Sociology, with some expertise in other ancient History.
I was a blue collar worker, so have no idea how one would accumulate that much education. She's obviously a Polyglot and has a rather high IQ.
It is obvious that there are members here who know the answer to my question.
Thank You
Gwen
Comments
As for obtaining multiple degrees.......
Depending on what they are, it isn’t as difficult as one would think. Quite often, the prerequisite classes for one degree are the same as for another, and many degrees share a lot of the same courses. I have four myself - a BS in Chemistry, a BS in Chemical Engineering, an MBA, and a Masters in Engineering Management.
It wouldn’t require a lot more classes for me to obtain a BS in Civil Engineering as I had to study a lot of it while taking my BS ChE.
On the languages, some are easier than others - nut although I am fluent in two and know enough 8na third to be understood, I am far from an expert there. I found that being forced to use them helped me a lot in learning them.
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
very cool
I have a BS in chemical engineering and an MS in computer science.
it would have been cool to combine those, to program software for chemical engineering, but I have never used the chemE since college.
Languages
I have european friends that speak 5 languages. It is somewhat common in Europe for parents from different countries to talk to their children as they are growing up in their maternal language, so that right there accounts for 2 languages. If the family happens to be living in a country other than their maternal country, that would account for the third language.
If you have the family be attached somehow to the military or an oil-based company with strong ties to the middle-east where they have to live in residence, for instance if one of the parents is a resident engineer, or a site manager, and if in addition the parents prefer their children attend the local schools so that the children acclimate better vs the American schools, you can easily have the five languages if you have them hopping from one site to the other after 5 or 6 years. Alternatively or in addition, a lot of high schools require a second language, so the children can learn one of the languages from high school or perhaps as a one year exchange student to broaden their horizons. As for her, I'm sure that as part of a PhD in archaeology a lot of the candidates will have to choose one or two ancient languages in their areas of especialization.
Please do let me know if you need help with the Spanish.
Gabi
Xtrim
so
to get a Phd in archaeology would require @ 5 years of sponsored research - there are no formal classes and no requisite for languages or anything else for that matter. That isn't to say learning a language (s) couldn't be very useful if you were studying say Classical Greek funery practice, but you might be studying prehistoric pottery where there is no written language.
People are very often unclear as to what archaeology is (let alone how to spell it!), roughly it is the study of human environments which can range from an ancient urn buried in a remote hillside to the remains of a Cold War bunker. However, a modern cemetery or extant house is not archaeology but history/anthropology. Clearly there are grey areas where Archaeology involves sciences, Lidar, GPR, chemistry etc and these could be part of a Phd. There is no prerequisite to have a previous award in Arch. but the majority of candidates will have some field experience.In simple terms, if you excavate a pyramid its Arch., if you study the hieroglyphs, that's not.
For example, my degree, BSc (Hons), is in Human and Natural Environments so I studied biology, geology and a wide range of arch., my dissertation was a study of a WW2 decoy site which involved historical as well as biological and arch. research and techniques.
My guess is that the character is actually an anthropologist where the knowledge of Middle Eastern languages would be required for any study of that region.
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Where does that leave "Industrial Archaeology?"
From your definition the study of sites that are extant can't be archaeology? Or did I get that wrong.
For example, Ironbridge (the structure) is extant and is classed as IA. The same goes for Cromford Mill, Saltaire, Crofton Pumping Station, etc etc.
When finding or visiting a site, you ask many of the same questions as you would when you visit somewhere like Petra or the Adobe Settlements of New Mexico. Why was it built here? When? For what purpose did it serve? etc etc.
I was a former member of BIAG (Berkshire Industrial Archaeology Group)
Samantha
industrial arch.
is a bit of a grey area tbh, I've worked on several industrial sites and they can include everything from Neolithic axe factories to abandoned mines.
'Ironbridge (the structure) is extant and is classed as IA' - well not really - yes it was built in the Industrial Revolution but its an historical artefact and not industrial for starters, another example is Brunels Severn Bridge at Gloucester. IA specifically relates to manufacturing/processing sites so a 17th century forge counts as IA, oth the Ford plant at Bridgend doesn't. Your other examples are historic buildings rather than Arch. sites, I know its semantics but it is quite important in terms of law, zoning etc. An upstanding structure of historical importance, say Saltaire, may be listed (in the UK) offering some protection to the structure, Arch. sites have different legislation and listing requirements which may relate to specific features in a field wall for example.
So a preserved steam locomotive is an historical artefact, a sunken prehistoric 'ferry' in Dover is Archaeology, an abandoned WW2 airfield & environs can be archaeology whilst Heathrow airport isn't, Old Sarum cathedral is arch., Salisbury cathedral isn't, Hardwick Old Hall is arch, Hardwick New Hall isn't (doesn't mean to say that there isn't any archaeology at any of these but they will be discrete features).
In my experience, groups such as BIAG have a broad membership with an equally wide range of interest, often the use of 'archaeology' in the name is a sort of catchall for 'anything old of interest'. My archaeology group, whilst originally being all about excavation and pre historic sites has mellowed to include a wider range of historic buildings/sites on our field trips, in recent years that has included places like the Riding School at Buxton (part of the local Uni) alongside Martello towers and hill forts.
One of my lecturers in days of yore was pre eminent in IA, particularly water driven sites in the steel industry of South Yorkshire - clearly IA, he was also a leading light in the collection of historic industrial tools and to a lesser extent plant equipment which are historic artefacts not IA. Clearly there is some crossover, the anvil found whilst excavating a medieval forge is an artefact, its industrial, historical and its archaeological depending on the context.
Archaeology is a wide church but loosely refers to the detritus of human existence, be that a discarded Roman shoe or a disused railway line, an extant, in use, structure can be historic but with a few exceptions, isn't archaeological per se. (an exception might be a Roman road for example, which may still be at least partially in use hundreds of years after being built and could still incorporate features from the last 1800 years!)
There ends Introduction to Archaeology 101 for today!
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Instead of Afghani
Instead of Afghani it would be depending on region Pashto (South) or Dari (North).
Aptitude, Opportunity and Reward
In the end it all boils down to aptitude, opportunity and reward. We choose to study a thing because we seem to be good at them. We get some kind of reward and then the opportunities show themselves and the learner takes advantage of them. Childhood learning of your fluent languages might be the best start. Here is a fast sketch of one way someone might get those qualifications. Exceptional people have exceptional experience. What do you think of this outline?
The very short version of this is: Aadina is a gifted Saudi girl who grew up in Afghanistan where she learns Afghani and Urdu. At university in Spain she picks up Spanish and English and earns degrees in sociology and anthropology. Then earns Phd in both from UNAM in mexico. Now at 25 she has to start her next chapter.
The longer version is:
Aadina is the daughter of a Saudi diplomat stationed in Kabul. They speek Arabic at home. Her mom teaches history and anthropology at the university in Kabul. Aadina learns Afghani in in the market. Her mother teaches her Egyptian hieroglyphs and script just for fun by writing
her notes in her lunches.
Her best friend growing up is the daughter of the maid and the gardener who takes care of her house on the embassy compound. They just happen to be Pakistani. In the bad times of the US invasion she gets separated from her parents but manages to escape with the maids family back to Pakistan. Both her parents are apparently lost. She stays with her friend and her parents the Pakistani maid and gardener who informally adopt her and call her Jumma.
They finally find work on the compound of a shipping merchant in Karachi where she finishes secondary school. Her friend would have dropped out if Jumma had not been there with her. Jumma is gifted in languages and gets good classroom English there. A letter that finds it's way to her step mom the maid. From the letter she learns that her father has survived. They are reunited in Muscat where her father now works for another division of the same merchant company that her adopted parents work for.
Now Aadina/Jumma is 18 years old and her father calls her Aadina again. She has had lots of world experience by now. Crossing Pakistan as refugees was hard. And the years in Karachi required that she work along side her friend and adoptive Mother to pay for her school.
Her father wants her to marry the son of her boss but in memory of her mother she wants to go to school and get a degree. Eventually he agrees. Her father is doing pretty well and so she goes to Universitat de Barcelona. Barcelona is good because her mother went there. There is a pretty big Islamic community there and her Mother's sister's family lives there and can help keep an eye on her.
In Barcelona she picks up conversational Spanish very quickly on campus and at social events. Since she grew up a Muslim she takes a while to find her footing and eventually steps away from the strict practice of her adopted family. She starts to wear more western clothes on campus but still puts on the chador when she visit's her aunt. She got a chance on one of the breaks and goes with one of the history professors on a dig of a roman villa outside of town. The dig crew have deep conversations about Roman and Greek and world history, the spread of Islam across Spain. The fall of Islam in Span after 1080 and more. Some of her colleagues were experts in the topic and it fascinated Aadina.
Along with everything else she takes business English classes. Eventually earning two bacholor's degree. One in anthropology and another in sociology . Since she is brilliant she finishes the program in three years then decides to go to UNAM in Mexico where she earns her first Phd in cultural anthropology by making a comparison of native cultures in Afghanistan. Her second Phd built on the work of the first doctorate but this time it is submitted in sociology. She takes an opportunity there and spends a few weeks on an archeology dig in the jungles of Yucatan. Here she renews her game of sharing notes in Egyptian and now also in Maya script. They talk about Mayan history.The conquest of the Americas by Spain and US hegemonic efforts around the world.
Now Aadina is 25 years old. Her father decides that she has had enough school. If she want's more she will have to find her own way. It has been six years and she has two bachelor degrees and two Phd. It's time for her to decide what to do next.
It's been fun writing this. You have my permission to do with it as you wish.
Your friend
Crash
You rescued me.
I've been beavering away and had placed Pashto in the North. I shall have to fix that. More work tomorrow.
Thank you.
Gwen
Strict narative
I missed the stuff about minority and majority languages in Afghanistan. And apparently it's not very true to reality to think of Afghani as a national identity. The country having been cooked up in a set of treaties in the halls of European colonial powers. Pashto, Dari and a host of other languages are spoken in homes across the country. Market languages are a whole 'nother issue. Untangling the kind of mess that is left over when colonial forces abandon a region is more than a little messy.
It's fun to try and avoid strict narrative. Big blocks of expository text can be boring. Using dialog and inference can be an interesting approach.
Figuring out reasons for characters to reveal details is the fun part.
Good luck with your process. I'm looking forward to seeing the results.
crash
Your friend
Crash
Once you get into it gets easier
(Academic) Learning is something you have to learn. Once truly mastered, most people can tick off courses at a higher speed than "normal". This applies to languages too when learnt in a school setting. You learn to see structures. Even if the structures in a new language are very different you still have a "framework" to put it in. As for vocabulary and colloquialisms etc; for most it involves hard tedious work. Sometimes the process is both helped and hindered by knowing a related language.
Bru
(ECTS count sneaking up on the The Spanish Armada)
Echoing other responses
I also have several friends who speak five or more languages. Most of them are academics.
The friends who speak five or more languages who are NOT academics had to learn other languages for their job. One in particular, was born in the US, but went to work in Israel, where he became quite fluent in Hebrew. He was transferred to Italy, learned that language, then was sent to France, then Spain, and finally Germany.
Native speakers of those languages were amazed at his command of the language, which is ironic because he HATED learning most of them.
I've met children who speak two or three languages, without really being aware of the difference. They simply reply in the language you address them. It's a bit intimidating for an American, especially when you realize that these little ones can't READ yet.
I'd not make much of your character's ability. Just treat it as a natural thing.
- io
Assistance, maybe
First, my first wife’s father was a linguist. He was fluent in at least 5 languages. He could read/write in Sumerian but no one can speak it. He said each new language Is easier to learn after the third.
Second, if you learn to speak a language before 5 years old you’ll speak like a native speaker. If you learn between 5 and 12 years you will be fluent but native speakers can always tell. After 12 you will be a second language speaker, able to do well in it but syntax and such off.
Third, multiple language speaker less than 7 years old will shift languages mid sentence depending upon concepts expressed without awareness.
Fourth, when you think in a language you cannot think of concepts that language has no words for. (Language limits thought.) Example: many New Guinea tribes language had no word for stranger. You were either family/friend or enemy.
Lastly, English is often said to be the hardest language to learn.
Hope this helps a little.
BAK 0.25tspgirl
Multilinguists - or Polyglots if you prefer Greek
I have only one degree so I cower before the sages present.
But I do have some skill with languages, and I put that down to a good memory and the courage (or stupidity) to open my mouth and start talking.
In my travels I have met people who are as dumb as a brick but speak 3 or more languages. If you are brought up where each parent has a different language and the language school is a third one, you will speak three languages.
One language I speak is Farsi, and Dari is basically the same thing with an accent and local words. Pashtu has many Persian words but is quite different and is spoken in East Afghanistan and Northwest Pakistan, but Urdu is the official language of Pakistan and is a variation of Hindi. All these languages are of the Indo-European tree.
Another language I speak (not well) is Mandarin Chinese which is limited by its script. It is driven by concepts and so new words are compounds. Because each character has a sound, tonal differences make it harder to get right, but grammar is crude.
New Guinea has about half the world's languages as almost every valley has a tribe - wontok in pidgin (used as the common language) literally means "one talk" - they have their own language. This is not just a dialect, but a language. They have the words they need, and no more.
I do believe that the study of languages is good for the brain, but I was never really a great student of them at school. I just picked them up and used them, because (as people may guess from my work here) I do have a tendency to chatter on ...
Maryanne
5 languages?? two degrees---
It is interesting to learn the manner in which many have obtained their degrees.
For myself, in five and a half years I earned two Bachelors and two Masters degrees. The first two years were the most divergent due to the necessity of the “general requirements”. Of the remaining three and a half years, the first held one or two of those but mostly was the scattered requirements ( or testing to prove I had the necessary background already under my belt ) for the final series of courses. The remaining two and a half years were spent completing the “101, 102, 103, 104, etc.) compilation of courses necessary to each degree.
Of course there was some overlap due to minor things like Physics requiring a minor in Math, ( duh ) and ( for some reason ) the requirement for two semesters of inorganic and one semester of organic chemistry. I still haven’t decided what that was supposed to be for but it did give me a good understanding of the Periodic table which was useful.
At that point I spent some little time in the Army.
Upon departing said interval, I began working even as I continued my education ( on my own dime ) and completed a PhD in Physics. That required two additional years ( elongated to four years due to the necessity of working a job simultaneously with my studies ).
Upon completion of my PhD, I went into research ( and some development - had to fund the research somehow ). Now??? Well, now I’m retired ( did so at 74 ). Developed some interesting advances and added to the general nonsense all Physicists seem to create ( see, I’m no exception ).
Languages have always been difficult for me so I cannot comment as to that side of the equation.
OH! It doesn't really matter as IQ is a very poor method of determining intelligent capability but for the record I tested five years in a row at 175-185 range. ( couldn't do that now if my life depended on it ).
Good Luck with your endeavors.
God Bless
POOKA
Very Smart Girl.
Our girl is very driven and sees everything she encounters as a challenge. I just wanted to "write Her" in the most plausible way possible.
Thank you.
Gwen