The news article read like a Big Closet story and will certainly result in some new stories. I am posting this because people on this site have an interest in the subject material. We're all in this together, right?
This kid was in custody and was given estrogen to cure his bad behavior; like a 'bad boy to good girl' or a 'forced estrogen/forced femme' premise. "A 16-year-old boy being held at a Los Angeles County juvenile hall developed enlarged breasts after he was prescribed estrogen to treat a behavioral disorder..."
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-07-15/teenage-boy-was-given-estrogen-developed-breast-tissue-while-in-l-a-county-juvenile-hall-lawsuit-alleges
I hope everyone is hunkered safely down during this era of covid. Stay safe and stay well.
Regards, Dee
Comments
This kind of thing isn't so cute in real life
I had to look up Oppositional Defiant Disorder at Wikipedia and while I might be missing some key point about why it's a real psychological illness it sounds like another word for being grouchy, since it doesn't manifest in the violent or criminal behavior like Conduct Disorder, which is right above it in DSM 3 through DSM 5.
And I don't know what the rationale for prescribing estrogen for this disorder actually was, but in TG literature it's usually that with the right inducements girlified boys are better behaved, and they'll get over all that icky male aggressiveness and defiance once their programming is complete and they've learned to love petticoats and curtseying. That's the fiction, and it can be good harmless fun for already transgender readers who imagine it's happening to them. The reality is more often something like what happened to David Reimer (RIP).
I'm not gonna start screaming for this kid's doctor's heads to be stuck on a pike without knowing more, there could be things that aren't being reported here (like {i'm just spitballing here} the kid said he was trans but then backtracked and denied it when his transphobic Dad who was causing his problems in the first place got more involved...) but it sounds like they might have a valid lawsuit.
~hugs, Veronica
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
That's a valid point. I
That's a valid point. I suppose he might have said something like that. Might be why he doesn't come out of his room anymore, as his dad says. It is hard to imagine a doctor prescribing something like estrogen as an experimental drug for ODD, but who knows. Stranger things have happened.
Hugs!
Rosemary
There's a BCTS author dedicated to this!
This rabbit hole doesn't end well, and Sarah Goodwoman has a lot of short stories dedicated to putting cis males forcibly through the CD/TV wringer - though usually without escalating as far as hormones (the one BCTS story that I've seen really delve into that morass is Jennifer Sue's "A Tuneful Tale". The fallout seen in many of them is what I would consider realistic (being a cis male myself).
This doesn't end well outside of fiction, and I maintain that you are kidding yourself to think that it does.
Did a little digging
I checked the two doctors names and practice locations in the California Medical Board Data Base https://search.dca.ca.gov/ as there are multiple David Oh and Danny Wang listings; FWIW the details on practice and qualifications are self reported. Thee is only one physician of each name who lists his practice in the same zip code as the juvenile facility. The dr. who wrote the prescription- Danny Wang- is a pediatrician with no other reported qualifications who spends 30 - 39 hours per week treating patients and 1 - 9 hours per week during administration; i.e. charting and meetings. His supervisor, David Oh, lists no details of his training and spends the same 30 - 39 hours per week in treating patients and 1 - 9 hours per week in administration. Neither one reports any research activities. Nor does Danny Wang report any qualifications to assess a patient's mental health status or whether or not they have gender dysphoria.
Under the law, at least in California, any licensed physician can practice any form of medicine or prescribe any medication for any reason regardless of whether the have specialty training; the only caveat is if they are subject to a legal or administrative law action that limits the scope of their activities. No matter whether one is practicing within or beyond one's scope of professional training, any and all experimental procedures and treatments require very extensive disclosure and consent.
Since the prisoner is a minor, and is incarcerated, either his parents consent or a court appointed guardian would have to approve the treatment. As the use of estrogen is way outside the bounds of treatment standards for ODD, consent was required. Even if the youth made an affirmative claim of being transgendered, we have a physician who is not qualified to make a professional diagnosis of dysphoria administering estrogen.
Even taking the news story with a grain of salt, we have doctors who acted unethically if not illegally. The state Board of Medical Examiners should discipline these jerks and the family should be successful in their malpractice lawsuit.
Like all too many....
Kids and even adults, the incarcerated frequently become the subjects on unethical treatment. Hormone therapy is NEVER prescribed for ODD.
I worked as a caseworker/counselor in a similar facility down south. For this doctor to have the treatment administered, either he violated the protocol on his own OR he did it with the approval/knowledge of the rest of the treatment team. At the very least, the facility medical records be audited by the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations or JCAHO. He should have his license yanked and the facility needs to be on probation. The nurses at the very lesst knew, since they were the ones administering the dosages, And to begin any new medication, even it had not been experimental, should have involved the parents, since he was a minor.
Love, Andrea Lena
Behavioral Science marches on!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jhIeno8tkB8/maxresdefault.jpg
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Just like a clockwork orange.
Just like a clockwork orange.
Hugs!
Rosemary
Bad News unless the boy is trans
This is a mistake all the way around. One, those in gov can do anything they want and nothing is illegal. Estrogen treatment for bad behavior shouldn't be legal by any definition. Now switch over to those who truly desire and are denied because they aren't old enough to make a decision.
If anyone thought we lived in a sane rational world, they are missing a few links in the mental power connection. Our world is upside down and getting worse. I strongly suspect trans will end up getting blamed for the mess, mass hysteria will kick in (again) and trans will be painted as evil mentally deranged misfits of society. Finally no one will lose their job in gov because gov doesn't make mistakes. There's a story here on BCTS that says that exact same thing about gov.
hugs people
sigh, what a mess
Barb
Life is meant to be lived, not worn until it's worn out.
PS: The article describes the boy was give thirteen daily doses of 2mg estrogen in pill form. My medical comes from research not clinical training but there is such a small chance of that dosage doing anything physical to the boy is beyond belief. Something is very very wrong with this story. Either the boy had been taking hormones prior and or he was taking hormones after. Breast development after thirteen days of estrogen??? Strains even the fictional story writing of the most avid boy to girl writer. Maybe a freak accident in a Star Trek transporter?
I smell lawyers and money in this situation.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
13 days!?
The 13 days reference caught my attention too. Much too short of time to have the results alluded to. I thought it was a typo.
Donna
Gynecomastia can start in 2
Gynecomastia can start in 2 weeks after being on estrogen. It is defined as the enlargement or swelling of breast tissue. Tenderness is a symptom and males who have been on estorgen does experince that side effect in as little as 2 weeks.
People are differently sensitive to estrogen
It might be that the doctor considered the dose too low to have any side effects, but the kid turned out very sensitive to estrogen.
What I can't understand is why the doctor prescribed it at all. Pre-pubertal boys have slight prevalence to girls at ODD (about 1.4 : 1), but after the puberty the girls erase that difference. Looks like estrogen helps ODD rather than fighting it...
Too Serious for me to talk about in depth...
There is more to "My" story but I want to sleep in my own bed and not go to the Hospital tonight.
Part of my journey is rife with misconduct by Mental Health folk, and the misuse of experimental Prescription drugs. If the statute of limitations had not run out, I certainly would have sued the County. Another aspect of this nightmare is that here in Oregon, if you challenge the Shrink, they can have you shipped off to the Oregon State Hospital where they put the really serious patients.
So, I hope that the kid and his family get rich off those bastards.
Gwen
A new condition invented
As Veronica said, in TG fiction the use of estrogen to modify undesirable behavior is a common device - I have used it myself in at least one story not posted here yet. But what irks me is that this is another TLA* that I have never heard of. What is with everybody wanting to diagnose bad behavior as a mental condition.
I find it hard to believe that any licensed physician believes that they can conduct experimental treatments without consent and protocols, so yes, there may be more to this story.
Would anybody like to read my estrogen treatment story? All the convicts get girlified.
Maryanne
* TLA = Three Letter Acronym
ODD
ODD is simply what our parents used to call backtalk. Is it a mental illness? I suppose that if it were someone's default way of dealing with any authority it could be. But... backtalk is a reaction. What was the kid reacting too? Opposition can be the right behavior, almost as often as it isn't. Calling it a disorder is a privilege only one side of the dispute gets.
And yes, girly convicts are go!
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Imaginary diseases
A classic example of those who hold all the power pathologizing behavior
they don't like was DRAPETOMANIA, first diagnosed in 1850s America and
exclusive to persons of African descent. It was the psychological illness
that caused slaves to run away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania
His doctorly discourse on the etiology and prescribed treatment (more whippings)
for this malady reads like Jonathan Swift but he was totally serious.
Maybe they should have given them estrogen?
~hugs, Veronica
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Did anyone else notice
The kid was only taking estrogen for 13 days? Boobs in less than 2 weeks? Something is off here. I wouldn't even try to use something like that in a story.
Having gynecomastia does not
Having gynecomastia does not mean having fully developed breasts. It means the beging of growing breasts and that does happen when a male takes estrogen for two weeks.
ODD
Yes, ODD is a real adolescent psychiatric diagnosis. And yes it is very serious. My data is dated to 1988 when I worked adult psych in a facility with a adolescent psych unit. We were DSM 3 then.
ODD is the adolescent precursor to adult sociopathy. Successful treatment was very rare. The symptoms include rage at being thwarted in any desire, violent physical attacks, near total lack of self control. (Yes these are all behavioral. Almost all mental health problems are diagnosed from behavioral clues.) Obviously these children have abysmal future out looks. Now to the estrogen. No clue why anyone would try this for ODD. Maybe desperation? Has any successful treatment for ODD been found in the last 30 years? (Don’t think so. Still seeing ODD teens in ER 3 years ago when I retired.)
Maybe this is a scam or hoax? That would explain breasts in 2 weeks! Or does the boy have a previously undiscovered gynomastica? We’ll likely never know.
BAK 0.25tspgirl
As a parent of a child with
As a parent of a child with ODD, and a social work major, i can confirm it does exsist. The ninja is six, and the main treatments for ODD are therapy based. It's definitely more than your typical bad behavior, and bad behavior almost always= the child having a particular need that is unmet. It is fairly common for ODD to be comorbid with other diagnoses such as ADHD, ASD, and Bipolar Disorder. While overdiagnosis is a thing, so is stigma, and saying ODD doesn't exsist perpetuates that.
ODD is treatable with behavioral therapy. Whether is traditional talk therapy, or or play therapy, it helps the individual learn to redirect, and kids learn to express their emotions in a healthy way.