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Those of us who have been with Big Closet for over two decades have seen a lot of change. (I know my profile says I’ve only been here fifteen years, but that is because I left for a year when a reader said she was going to commit suicide because one of my stories made her feel so badly abut her life. She said the loving family I depicted in one of my stories was in stark contrast to hers.)
Erin has tried a number of “kudos” systems. The first change she made, as I recall, was in part due to blatant manipulation of stats. As I remember it, one of the more popular authors wasn’t satisfied with broad success and apparently took matters into her own hands to pump her numbers into the stratosphere.
I’ve often commented that there’s almost no correlation between quality of writing and number of kudos, comments, and/or hits. I define “quality of writing” not as manuscripts with few typos, misspelling, continuity, and grammar errors. Rather, I believe “quality” means a style of writing that encourages the reader to constantly want to continue reading until the end of the story.
Despite my comments about a lack of correlation between “quality” and quantity of comments, kudos, and/or hits, I support and appreciate Erin’s efforts. Those of you who have read my over one hundred stories that I have been posted on BC have seen numerous references to the teaching of B F Skinner regarding the power of positive reinforcement. I not only write about it, I believe it and have shaped my life around rewards for approximation of a desired behavior.
My concerns about kudos, comments, and/or hits numbers is that authors who struggle to receive comments, hits, or comments will become discouraged and quit writing. This is especially concerning when a writer who posts quality stories has trouble garnering more than a few comments.
Two things have recently occurred that have bothered me.
1.) A “new” writer has posted quite a number of stories. Her stories are inventive and interesting. Yet – many of her stories are practically ignored when it comes to comments. What does it take to leave a comment? Think of a comment as a bread and butter letter. If you don’t know what a bread and butter letter is http://www.edwardianpromenade.com/etiquette/writing-the-brea...
2.) Lately, I’ve noted what appears to be evidence once again of numbers manipulation. Obviously, a person who is determined can use macros to generate hits and kudos. I don’t really care if someone is getting more hits than me. I have an over-inflated ego and such things rarely make even a slight dent. What does concern me is that fledgling authors will look at those false numbers and become disenchanted when their stories generate far less attention. If you’re pumping-up you own numbers so that your story registers several hundred kudos more than it “really” got, it isn’t a victimless crime. Also – the majority of people who read stories here -- read a lot. They know good writing when they see it. They aren’t going to be fooled by false numbers and will only think less of you for your charade. (I don’t mean giving yourself a kudos. I ALWAYS give my story a kudos. If I didn’t think it was good, I wouldn’t post it.)
Thank you to all those who have commented on my stories over the years. I especially love it when a story I posted years ago receives a new comment. In the normal course of events a story receives comments for the first two or three days it is posted. To me that’s strange. On average, my stories will receive about 1,500 hits and about ten comments during the first few days. Over the next week or so they will receive another about 1,500 hits and maybe one or two comments, if any. Evidently those people who read a story after the first few days don’t feel obliged to leave a comment. That behavior isn’t mirrored on Amazon where my books continue to receive reviews long after they’re published.
Jill
Comments
I try to give what encouragement I can
but I'm only one Dotty
Only One...
But such a wonderful dot...!
Peace and Love Hugs tmg
Like Morse Code
BC would be nothing without Dot.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
oh wow
blushes like crazy
Stories I usually don't comment on
Very seldom will I leave a comment for a story deeply involved in sex, especially page after page.
When the author takes a comment as a critical criticism of his or her works. Only one story I have ever read did I take the author to task for her content and I have regretted it ever since (years ago). No more comments if all they want is praise and their story is in dire need of editing, formatting, maybe moving action scenes or their love scenes for more impact.
Bondage stories won't get a comment because I very seldom finish them. The warnings at the top aren't always there.
Dress up or makeup stories are the authors only focus. We know why they do it but I'm not interested so I usually bail and again no comment.
Really bad sentence structure, misuse of verbs, nouns, adjectives, etc. God knows I slay the Kings English worse than any writer here. Plus I failed virtually every English class I took. It's the pot calling the kettle black but those stories no comment.
Just not my flavor. Open a story, and nothing resonates after the first few pages. It is a story, others like it or love it but it is like eating wallpaper paste to me. I drop it and no comment.
Jill, do you see a pattern here? Each story is going to show a hit but no noodles or comment to go with that. Go to a book store, every book I touch shows up as being read and the author can claim ten million readers have read his book when in reality only a hundred read it. The proof in the pudding are the sales (comments)
And then there are readers who don't know how or want to comment. I noticed years back there were an awful lot of readers who couldn't say anything if they were criticizing the story and nit picking it to death. Thank god Erin kept after them until almost all that is gone. Like that reader who claimed your story drove her to the edge.
Hugs Jill
Barb
Life is meant to be lived, not worn until it's worn out.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
constructive criticism?
"Thank god Erin kept after them until almost all that is gone."
I've seen a lot of authors that can't take criticism, at all.
If your skin is so thin, that you need an echo chamber that only posts fluff compliments, even if the story is obviously deeply flawed, then that is a problem. Don't get me wrong, this a great place to get started, if you are easily discouraged. But if someone points out that your lack of proper sentence structure and grammar is making the story unreadable and you have a fit over it, then maybe posting stories for public consumption is something you should reconsider.
We have a lot of good writers here, but let's be frank, most people that post stories here really need help either with technical issues or pointers on what makes a good, readable story. I've seen certain authors getting large amounts of traffic and high Kudo's counts, read the story and be utterly amazed anyone was able to get through it, much less like it, your comment about artificially inflated hits and kudo's makes perfect sense to me.
I Agree
Not only do most people who post here need help -- most best-selling authors do to.
Over the years I've posted some of John Grisham's work and given it an edit. . .and he's one of my favorite authors.
Writing is like sculpturing. You can't take one swipe at a block of granite and declare it a statue.
I often go back and edit stories I posted here years ago. One of the great things about BC is you can always improve your work.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Edit feature
"Holy... I wrote THAT? Yep. Edit feature is my friend.
Love, Andrea Lena
Writing comments can be hard
This may come as a surprise to you authors, but for those of us who are readers and not writers it can be quite hard to write a comment.
I grew up with Usenet and got inducted to that etiquette - write original content, do not repeat what has been already said several times. Give me a technical discussion any time and I can produce some properly worded content (given the necessary time - filing down a post to just the right words can take quite some time). But in a social setting I am the typical geek, uncomfortable and socially inept, not very versed in smalltalk and simple social graces like saying "thank you" for a story.
So I resort to giving a kudos as that "thank you" notice (the most trivial version of your "bread and butter" letter, IMHO) and refrain from commenting unless I believe that I really can contribute something to the discourse (it need not be a real discussion).
Rigid
If you want to make a comment and just can't come up with something -- I speak for every author here -- we love hearing, "I read every word!"
Just say that in some form and you will make the author's day.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
That's a good idea.
I don't think I've ever said "I read every word" in my comments.
I think I will change my basic I-want-to-leave-a-comment statement to "Read it. Liked it. Thanks." Thanks, Angela.
Lu et apprové?
"Read and approved"
Standard text in French legal documents (contracts etc) just above one's signature. :)
I wanna be Mary Tyler Moore
when I grow up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2yqE6xOh38
Love, Andrea Lena
MTM
If she keeps at she's going to make it after all!!!
Jill (Just another Twin Cities' girl)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I can never tell
I think I faked it
Love, Andrea Lena
New stories and old
I think the view count could be very misleading. If a reader clicks on a story link, looks at it for 10 seconds and then closes it then it still counts as a view. So I suspect the number of views is primarily related to the catchiness of the title, the popularity of the author and how many other stories were published that day.
When I first started reading stories here, I gave kudos to the stories I particularly liked. Once I realized how meaningless views are I started giving kudos to every story I read or seriously skimmed. You caught my interest.
I'm a lot more sparing with comments. Mostly because I'm lazy. If I'm reading the story on my phone then I won't comment. It's a lot harder to enter the comments. Also, I'm probably in bed and trying to fall asleep. Most of the stories I read in bed are usually umpteen chapters of one story so I will probably make a comment on one the chapters the next day.
I probably comment on at least half of the stories and new chapters I read. (I know I should do more, but see above about my being lazy.) If I'm rereading a story I will usually leave a comment saying so. After all, a series of comments from me scattered over the years saying I'm rereading it a second time, a third time, etc. is a good indication to everyone of just how awesome I think the story is. If the story has many chapters I will probably comment on the first and last chapters but not most of the ones in the middle. (We've established by now that I'm lazy, right? I'm good at procrastinating too.)
As for old Kindle stories versus old stories here, I'm not surprised. It's obvious when a story was posted here. On Kindle, you have to hunt around for the info.
WillowD
You have authored some of my favorite comments. Just keep doing what you're doing, gal. Between you and Commentator you've turned around many a day for me. . .the right way.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I agree
WillowD, you're great about commenting and it always cheers me up. Dottie and several others regularly comment on my stories too and a nice comment can make a girl's day.
*big hugs*
Amethyst
Don't take me too seriously. I'm just kitten around. :3
I'd like other readers to be
I'd like other readers to be as lazy as you. Add to this your comments all are encouraging and valuable.
Real Comments
Thank you Jill, for raising this.
It is hard to plead for comments without being seen as pathetic and needy.
But a girl needs compliments, even if she is not a complete girl.
As for criticism, anybody who has been through transition or anything like it, should be able to handle that.
I don't know how the system works but I like kudos as a wink that I am succeeding, but nothing beats words.
That is why I often reply to comments made.
I confess that I do not comment enough on stories I read (mainly short solos) but I promise to do better.
Maryanne
Comments are more than just words
I seldom have time to read much these days, but when I do I try to leave positive comments when a story has drawn me in I know how important good feedback, positive support, and sometimes a little constructive criticism can help an author. I usually have a decent kudo to read ratio and that's encouraging, but I also realize that I'm a niche writer. I write a lot of serials and I don't really write the kind of stuff a lot of people here want to read, so I'll never get the huge numbers that a lot of other major writers on here get. So to me kudos and reads are great, but it's comments that tell us that we've touched someone. Comments let me know that my stories, not among the mainstream even here on BCTS, have impacted someone enough that they felt the need to say something, even if it's a thankyou for posting it. Those always make me feel that maybe I'm doing something right after all.
Don't take me too seriously. I'm just kitten around. :3
I mostly gave up commenting,
especially when people started taking everything as a criticism and pissing and moaning about it. Got tired of the petty crap and left well enough alone. Doesn't matter if it is a comment or a PM, the results are the same. Thank you for giving me this chance to vent /hugs
It's Not about You
Writers are hyper-sensitive. I've often been shocked by what someone found offensive. Sorry you had bad experiences.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I like your comments
I'm sorry you were not received well.
Love, Andrea Lena
Couple of Points...
1. I think it's safe to say that some of the later "hits" are people who already read the story, going back to look at those ten comments you mentioned.
2. I'm sorry if it disappoints some authors, but empty comments -- "Great story; thanks for posting" -- just aren't my thing; in my view, that's what the Kudos button is for. If I don't have something tangible to add, I don't comment.
Best, Eric
Fair enough.
I used to think the same way.
But after the first conversation like this one I realized that there a lot of authors here that appreciate getting a trivial boiler plate comment like "Great story; thanks for posting" a lot more than getting no comment at all. And I have yet to see a single author object to my posting such a trivial comment.
Stories that ought to get a response
I think that some stories call for little more than praise and gratitude, but I like to think of my stories as more thought provoking.
To get just a little hug from a writer I respect means a lot.
I have said it before but I think that short stories need to leave the reader affected rather than just amused: Hopefully a smile (like "Pretty"); some puzzlement ("Making a Scene"), informed surprise (Sporus") or maybe even tearful ("Waif") but my hope is that a thoughtful reader will find something to say.
Even my last story was just a very short take on "Pygmalion" but I think that it had characterization some pathos and the sinful happy ending.
I appreciated all the comments.
Please keep them coming, and I will do likewise.
Maryanne
The Importance of Being Ernestine
Love, Andrea Lena
Holy affirmation Batgirl
It might be like the obligatory comment from mom when she says the flowers you picked are her favorites. But my therapist is always straightforward with me and she just wrote me and said my writing is amazing. She also sends her congrats to our community on the Supreme Court Decision.
Love, Andrea Lena
Most Of Us Love Comments
But there are some good authors who don't like the posted ones which can sometimes be cruel or be taken that way. In that case, if you like the story make the extra effort and send a PM.
Even that doesn't always produce the desired result. There was one story by one of the best writers gracing this site where a particular word (which was an important descriptor in the tale) was misspelt a dozen or more times. I didn't want to embarrass the lady so I sent a PM pointing out the mistake so that she could correct it. I got a reply. She told me to make love to myself! I never commented on another of her stories, no matter how much I liked it.
However, in general, I do comment on stories that I like, even if they could do with a bit of a polish. Writing and posting is to be encouraged, especially works from new authors. The problem there is that you may pass over raw talent because there are established writers that take precedence with your time and you are familiar with the quality of their work and the themes that they write about. There is not much that you can do about that. In the wider world of published books everybody has their favourites. I always remember being on holiday one time and there was a book sitting on the table which I picked up one evening out of sheer boredom. It was the first Harry Potter and I was hooked immediately, but in other circumstances I may never have deigned to glance at a "juvenile" book about magic.
Here, there are some quite wonderful authors who could hold their own in the broader field of publishing, but writing about transsexual/transvestite/cross-dressing themes aint never gonna sell millions in the mass media. While I could and do wish them commercial success I am very happy that they post here and entertain me and that I can correspond with some of them and maybe help with a comment or two.
One writer that I never have any trouble praising is Angela Rasch (Jill MI), who is something of a super-star on this site. There are several others (I won't name any because I might miss one) who I believe are totally under-rated and deserve far more in the way of accolades than they receive. I think they will know who they are (if they read this) because I try never to miss the opportunity to comment on their work.
So...please do comment, even if you don't get the desired response. You can always desist but I reckon that 99% of the time it will be appreciated. I've had some rotten comments but I don't have tickets on myself and have mostly managed to laugh at the ones that tell me my stories are no good. Don't stop...it's good for my soul!
Finally, there's no better site for receiving kudos and/or comments than this one.
You're the Superstar
As Erin often says -- it's not about you. That uncouth author was having a bad day and you were a handy target.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)