On Wednesday evenings, I run a local authors group called Taking Pains. The title of the workshop refers to one necessity for anyone who wants to improve their writing: the willingness to listen to unpleasant things about your writing. I'm going to try to reflect what we do in that group in occasional blogs here.
We sit around a table and pass out copies of our latest opus. We each read and markup the product of our fellow writer who is currently in the hotseat then we go around the circle and try to give constructive criticism, even if it is only nitpicking comma placement and hyphenation. Everyone gets a turn to be a cook and a turn to be the roast.
Many truths emerge:
Nitpicking is useful because simple things like misspellings, bad punctuation, and wonky grammar are stumbling blocks to a reader's comprehension and enjoyment.
Good writing is vivid writing. Using a vivid word is almost always better. If a man with a gun walks across a room, an entirely different thing is shown by saying the gunman sauntered toward the saloonkeeper.
Details matter. If Maisie prepares dinner for Gus, the story comes alive if Maisie chops onions and shreds roast beef to make Gus's favorite tacos.
Good writing is sparse writing. Don't overdo the vividness. Sometimes it is better if Angela just says something instead of declaiming, shouting, whispering or bloviating.
Maintain a sense of place and position. Remind the reader every three to five paragraphs just where the action is happening. Dot looked out the bedroom window, noticing a delivery truck making its suburban rounds.
A bit of business will anchor a character to the dialog better than a simple tag, but remember to be sparse. Too much business will get in the way. Arnold folded a matchbook to pick his teeth with while explaining the consequence of not following the plan. "I'll kill you," he said.
Every description, piece of dialog or action must advance the plot, illuminate a character, or contribute to the mood of the story. And yes, a throwaway bit of action, or tangential conversation can advance things by distraction. Lucy the dog came into the room while the argument raged, looked around as if searching for someone, and left suddenly when Brigitte called Ralph a bad word.
More later,
Erin
Comments
Thanks!
Because I've clicked another word already.
Some good tips
This bit is perfect advice
Every description, piece of dialog or action must advance the plot, illuminate a character, or contribute to the mood of the story.
but don't forget the red-herrings and blind alleys! :)
Samantha
Writing Groups
I was a member of a writing group, but can't get to it now that I don't have a car. Your idea of handing out printed copies is great. We just read short excerpts from our stories. I probably overdo trying to be descriptive, but in my defence, I try to draw the reader in.
Thanks
Gwen
the problem is
That those who most need the advice are often those who don't want to hear it or act on it.
Mads
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Thanks, Erin! Great advice in
Thanks, Erin! Great advice in a concise form.
Kris
{I leave a trail of Kudos as I browse the site. Be careful where you step!}
I would have a hard time with this
I've had someone offer to critique one of my stories, which I guess is what your group does, and I felt a strong hesitation to accept.
The problem is that I don't do a lot of thinking about how I tell my stories. They come from somewhere deep inside me, and the only thing I think about when writing them down is how best to translate the vision I have into words. (I'm a mostly non-verbal thinker -- spending most of your life among people who emphatically did not want to hear what was in you means you never develop your translation skills.)
Also, I usually have a "voice" in mind, and I try to not only tell the story but tell it the way the narrator would. (E.g., in Melanie's Story, I envisioned a somewhat naive and thoughtless 15-year-old.)
I'm always afraid that if I ask for advice, the advice I get will end up leading me to stray too far from the vision, or to change the writing to something the narrator wouldn't say. It's hard for me to tell whether the writing "mistakes" are my mistakes or the narrator's.
FWIW, I've looked over the comments I've gotten for my stories, and it seems like most comments are about the readers' reaction to the story, rather than to the quality of the writing. People seem to get pretty worked up over what happens to my characters. When people criticize my stories, it's usually because they want the story to go a different way from what I wrote.
All true and honest
Do your writing to fit what you want to do with your writing. :)
Our group is pretty good on recognizing a voice and nurturing it. Not all groups are.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Writing critique
My Wife and I lost much of our sensitivity in our collage English class. We learned that the comments weren’t personal and helped with clarity. Most people don’t get that experience. I can plot and universe and action but I can’t dialogue out of a wet paper bag. That is why you’ll never see my stories here. For those that do write here a few need help. Some of the best writers too! I edit while reading. It does suspend my suspension of belief. Why, so what, who cares, in red in the margins, oh the memories!
BAK 0.25tspgirl
not quite
Sure what a collage English course covers? I did English Lit. and English Grammar as two separate things - is collage a mix of both?
Mads
Madeline Anafrid Bell
College English courses
Most college English courses would be literature courses. Creative English courses would be something different, usually. Not so much classroom instruction as practical experience in how to write. English criticism classes teach how to understand literature. There are also some specialized courses like English for Engineers which teach one how to write proposals and project papers.
Grammar would be covered in remedial English courses, you're supposed to know that stuff before you get to college. :)
Really specialized English courses might be in linguistics, phonetics, didactics, etc.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
ROFL
This made me laugh.
"There are also some specialized courses like English for Engineers which teach one how to write proposals and project papers."
Back in my day, we learned that on the job as every company has different standards.
There are only a few rules to remember
1) make it dry, dry and even drier.
2) Emotion is not allowed either nor is waffle.
3) stick to facts and do not draw conclusions unless specifically asked for.
All very different to writing fiction.
Samantha
Collage English
"cut-and-paste" of course!
I edit while reading
Been there, done that. As an old habit from dial up days, I cut and paste to my word processor. I can't resist the urge to correct while reading. Mostly it punctuation and wrong homonym or verb tense. My word processor makes it difficult no to. I have it set to catch my mistakes as I write and when I download other's works, it marks it up. Once the error is detected I can't just leave it.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
Whoops
Misspelled college! ENG 101 and 102 - required for all entering students - 101 matches with Speech 101 - also required. 101 is basic essay writing, given a type of essay you write it and then convert it to a 5 minute presentation for speech so 2 grades. 102 is how to write a term paper at college level which doubled as a paper in Nursing. Dr Goode taught Eng 101 and he did more to clean up my writing skills than 4 years of English in high School. He also taught me more about criticism too. My wife and I took 2 more English classes from him we liked him so well. Those were the days!
BAK 0.25tspgirl
Speaking, reading and writing English
The only English course I have ever attended was the ‘immersion’ course as a twelve year old. That’s where you go to England as a foreigner speaking no English and either sink or swim. My education is entirely in STEM subjects which give one a certain ‘style’. I’ve written many a paper and dry, dry and drier seems to be correct, if not quite dry enough. I started to write fiction to, one, improve my English and, two, to work off pain and anger, and I was pretty appalling to start with. Embarrassingly so looking back.
With the advent of the modern word processor things became much easier. If the tool is there I use it. I’m writing this using Open Office writer, because I can spell check it, and I always do. I’m told my English, speech as well as writing, is sometimes archaic, but that’s probably due to what I’ve read and where I live. I’ve only ever lived in the north of England and in Scotland, and most foreigners are only familiar with southern English variants.
I love some of the writing on BCTS, but some of it would be easier to read if spell checked. Having said that, I’d rather read a good tale with a lot of typos than a poor tale with none. I know there are differences amongst the Englishes (I think that’s the correct plural but couldn’t find out) as used in various parts of the world and that shouldn’t upset anyone, my spell checker is set to English UK, but I don’t like making preventable mistakes. If that make me a silly old woman, so be it.
Regards,
Eolwaen
Eolwaen
If spell checked
That's OK, but misses some of the worst howlers which come where words sound the same, but being spelled differently have different, occasionally completely opposite meanings! If they have a meaning, most spell checkers ignore context, so bypass correct, but inappropriate, spellings
Details matter, but
if the author is trying to be too specific, and too detailed, about a topic with which they are not familiar, it is -extremely- off-putting to the reader who follows that sport / activity / location.
As an example, I know a little about cycling, and I'm a casual follower of the Tour de France. There are references to this in a few writers stories, but always at a level that match my casual interest. That makes them more approachable to me.
I am a devoted follower of a couple forms of automobile sport. Several writers go into considerable detail in their stories, and they are under-informed about the topic. I can no longer read their stories, as the abundance of what I believe to be mis-information distract me from the story.
So details are good, but don't go into great depth until and unless you're sure of the accuracy. Also, insure it really has something to do with the story, and isn't a random tangent to show how much you love the topic.
You should know I'm not a skilled writer, but I have been known to read. A lot. Oh, also, I'm in the US, so I sometimes struggle with other forms of English than that which we use here. I view that as my problem, and have been learning a lot of local colloquialisms by reading tales here, for which I am grateful!
Thanks,
Steve
Further to insufficient internal knowledge of a subject
There is a series currently being posted, set in a Formula 1 World Championship milieu. If I wanted, I could pick holes a mile wide in the writing in terms of its accuracy. But WTF its well written, even if wrong, is very, very readable, and has a delightful way of imagining the contexts, so I have never written comments on it, not even sent a PM. I am continuing to be impressed by the writer's imagination and writing style. The last two override any inaccuracies, which is why when a new episode is posted, it is one of the first I read.
Te-he
If I wanted, I could pick holes a mile wide in the writing in terms of its accuracy.
You mean just like almost everything to come out of Hollywood. Just think of U-591. People dining outside with lights fully on during the Blackout of WW2. That's a common mistake.
Then transatlantic phonecalls that totally ignore the time difference.
I could go on but it will only end in a rant.
That said, you can always make mistakes. Heck, I've made more than a few myself. Some were elemental. a Doh! moment if ever there was one but like most I do try hard to not to make silly mistakes but you are right in that blatant foopahs can really stop you enjoying a story.
Samantha
How to rite Gud....
Wow. Okay, so dredging up old (emphasis on old) memories of my college years, I do not recall taking any English courses at that time. Unless, of course, one considers the course in writing one's Thesis as being a course in English. As I was a Physics-Mathematics major, I sometimes had my doubts. For some reason, I always found it much easier to produce reams of paper concerning my specific areas of expertise versus, for instance, a dissertation regarding the merits of various of Shakespear's works (one of my high school assignments).
I, therefore, would be loath to call myself a 'writer' and have relegated myself to reading fiction rather than writing it.
Yes, I find errors in some of what I read here. Show me some book or newspaper or e-paper which has no errors.....
Writing fiction was something I left to my sister to accomplish and she seemed quite capable in that endeavor. At least I enjoyed reading the material she produced as I do a number of the stories which appear here.
This site was one which she frequented and upon inheriting the material she (and others- I presume) produced, I discovered the site and have wandered around in the background reading bits here and there.
I have, on many occasions, abandoned the reading of a story due to a significantly large number of grammatical errors. While the story was well thought out and likely appreciated by many, I could not handle the obvious errors in word usage and placement. I even attempted to rationalize some of the errors as being made by persons who were not completely familiar with American English as a first language. British English, while sometimes throwing me for a loop, has the honorific of being the English base upon which American English was constructed so I attempt to comprehend same. I don't always succeed.
I suppose what I am saying is that allowances must be made and I am ashamed to admit that I cannot always make them.
Please, all of you, continue writing. I shall continue attempting to read as much as I am able.
POOKA