How are new readers and authors attracted to Big Closet?
Maybe the financial problems could be solved through an increased user base? It would seem likely that the more users BC has the more contributions Erin would receive.
I came to BC many years ago (probably over two decades ago) when Erin sent me an invitation to post here after reading one of my stories on FM.
How did you find BC?
Do you have ideas for attracting more readers and authors?
Is social media being used to attract readers?
Please comment.
Jill
Comments
I got here by recommendation.
Tris (aka shandy) told me about BCTS and I really like the atmosphere here a lot more by comparison to TGStorytime.
He recommended it in the chat room for TG writers/readers on Discord. I think social media, especially Facebook, will only attract the wrong crowd, even though I have been told there are Trans groups on there. But looking at it I can only say I would not touch it with a barge pole.
It seems to me, that it is a bit of a difficult situation, if we all decide to only publish in a way, that our attempts at making at least some money with all the effort we put into writing are not compromised. I, too started out a long time ago but in a difficult financial situation and was all too happy, to find somewhere to read stuff for free. So, if we all start selling our books through publishers, where are people going to find us?
Looking at some of the sales claimed on Amazon for certain books I could assume that there are lots of people who read TG-fiction. My experience on NaNoWriMo 2017 also tells me, that there are quite a number of young LGBTQ people, who want to read and write stories in that genre. At least that was what transpired for me in the fora there.
So how do we advertise? I am a bit at a loss here. Perhaps the old word of mouth thing is still the best. Maybe we should just ask our readers to talk to people they trust about BCTS? I am sure there are people who would read some out of plain curiosity or, if we are lucky, the will to understand. My professional protegée, for example, who is a perfectly straight woman, loves my stories exactly for that, that she can understand a little better, what was driving me already to become a woman so long ago.
I am also wondering about sites like transformation.co.uk, they do sell some publications, but they seem rather dubious, perhaps they might be interested in advertising some more classy stuff, or even exchange an advert here against one of BCTS or doppler press there? I am just throwing ideas around here.
Monique S
Exactly
I'm considered to be a sales expert. Yet, I didn't think about the first rule of sales: Ask for a referral. BC should n be asking everyone who comes here to tell a friend. Great idea!
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Need a donation FAQ
And I am not talking about the how.
A business case needs to be made for some people as to why donations are needed.
Even a blatant ‘why do we urgently need your donations?’ link will probably be needed.
On the linked page you explain why, even though the site does not charge for access, donations are essential AND it gives you the opportunity to FAB about this site.
One must also set expectations as to what a hoped for donation should be.
If you don’t ask for a sale, you won’t get it.
Electronic donations are convenient but they are never private.
By the very nature of what this site provides, visitors may hesitate to donate.
More anonymous donation vehicles might help.
Snail mail
Use snail mail (they [Erin et al] provide an address) buy small denomination MO to preserve your privacy (use cash) then send W/O return address if you are really concerned.
For US that is possible, I do it myself
Internationally, it may be an issue.
Some thoughts
Jill,
Three ideas.
1. The first is the need to help people feel safe enough to move from being a visitor to being a member. I remember that I found the site well before I formally started to transition. The decision to join was not easy as I was seriously worried about personal information leaking or being misused. If we could demonstrate that everyone's account details were safer than Fort Knox and provide both training and reassurance that this site will protect their data with the cunning and viciousness of a rabid wolverine for her litter of cubs it would be a great start. In effect aggressively adopting the European GDPR (general data protection regulations).
2. The second idea is to expect a virtual monthly donation of $5 or $10. The key word here is virtual. If someone can't spare the cash (as we know many have to deal with very tough RL situations) perhaps they could offer an hour or two of editing support, or posting a dozen comments on the stories they enjoyed that month, or publishing a story of their own and have that counted 'en lieu'.
3. Thirdly, we have some amazingly talented writers who share their talents here. Would it be possible to set up an online creative writing course and mentoring programme? Many online commercial courses charge between $500 and $1,000. I'm not suggested we do that, but a trans friendly, collaborative effort with input from some of our most successful writers (at least one of whom is a NY Times Bestselling author) would be a real draw.
I hope this starts some constructive debate and thought. Erin needs all the support and help we can offer.
Persephone
Non sum qualis eram
Three Great Ideas
The first is extremely important and something I'm sure the techies here can handle.
In Real Life I started a non-profit for my local school district that has generated several over $7 million in donations. But -- where we really hit the target was in setting up a program to increase the amount of volunteer labor. We kept track of worker hours and made the public aware of how important volunteer help was to the school district. The same principles apply here.
I'm not an amazingly talented writer but I have been told I have a knack for helping writers grow. I'm sure there are several dozen writers here who would give time to help.
Thank you so much for your thoughts.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Proofreading
Since at the moment I seem to be at loggerheads with my latest writing failure, I will provide proofing service as I have time to at least one person.
One possible way
Okay. This may rankle some people but I would suggest the following possibility. One is to keep the site open as it is now, but with some restrictions. By this I mean allow people to write as usual who wish to write and gain experience in 'how' to write. Keep them free. We know what this site meant for but of course we are seeing 'other' stories come here that have now dominated other sites. I'm not going to throw stones or such, but for me some stories have gone asunder and I'm not talking about furies and such. It is left up to the readers to make that decision if they wish to read them if they are marked properly and not with every catch all.
The other is to offer a 'patron' side that many other sites have been exploring and testing the viability of such such. A few have taken to up the quality of their works to show their appreciation. I understand we have, in a 'smaller' sense, done some, but honestly the reading is slim to really hold anyone's interest after one or two donations.
Now some may say what about ownership or compensation. That I'm afraid would be up to any agreement between the writer and the site. Writers may have a 'duration' period of how long its up or if they wish to publish to have it taken down. If there was a way I'd also suggest a method of keeping it from being copied and sold if its good enough. Adobe comes to mind as its basically 'lock' unless you buy the full version and even then it could be easily proven to have been stolen with a 'locked' version from earlier.
But for any of these stories to be read it has to be basically hidden from regular readers, but I'm not into coding. But that is one possible solution to be explored.
That's my two cents worth and that's not saying much in today's economy.
Hatbox
Every story I've put in Hatbox is eventually provided free for a short period of time. That seems to work well.
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm sure the right people are reading them.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
MONEY!
I was reading stories on another site. after reading all the free stories that appealed to me, I went to their 'links' and chose Big Closet because the name intrigued me. I started to read a long story, and made comments. Several other authors were recommended to me. One of them enjoyed my comments so much, she suggested I write a story myself. Noticing other writers used an editor or someone else to pre-post read their stories, I asked Bronwen to help me out.
I value this site very much, and help out as much as I can. but The problem is money, not more authors. How do we generate more funds to this site? Do we charge a small fee to read past x amount of chapters? Do we require a small membership fee to comment or read complete books? Does the site get advertisers more than Cross dressing aids and get real advertising money like Jeff Bezos does with Amazon? You tell me.
It is complicated for me to answer
Thank you for asking such an important question Angela!
Oh my! How did I end up here? That is a complicated question.
Well, someone I am close to reads a lot of fan fiction. One day, when I had to check something on their computer, I found some of the fan fiction pages left up were either a.) pornographic or b.) had graphic gay sex.
I wasn't offended per se. It was that the site she went to often had all sorts of fan fiction. Some of it took bromances in television series to an extent that was, well, very pornographic.
As I floated around fan fiction to see what it was all about, I discovered TG fiction. For reason I need not relate to many here, I read some only to find old feelings coming back to the surface. I checked out the various sites and found that BC appealed to me as a less sex and fetish orientated site. In addition, it had a ton of original material. Moreover, I found the comments were supportive of work done as well as encouraging more work.
It wasn't just that. I have known since my college days why I chose to not write. I was afraid of the material in the back of my mind being treated with contempt by an audience who wouldn't understand the ideas and subjects my heart wanted to explore.
Fiction Mania, as nice a site as it is, doesn't give me the comfortable platform to present my writing, organize my writing, and monitor how well it is received.
For example, I know that my solo story, 'Hard Pills to Swallow!' is my most actively read story over six months old. 'Front Paige News' is now reaching the same volume as 'Hard Pills to Swallow!' Seeing how well each story plays in general gives me feedback of what kind of stories my audience would like me to explore more often.
Features I love about BC:
1 -- One of the things that makes BC stand out for me is the habit of pulling old stories out of the closet and republishing them. I cannot tell you how many times I found an author because of seeing a reprint. Brilliant!
2 -- Personal messaging. I like being able to be anonymous. I value my privacy. I notice I don't have to explain why to the audience of this site either. My muse enjoys her being able to express herself without feeling the danger of being outed. But, she really appreciates that she can share something personal or an observation with another writer privately.
3 -- The excellent way I can present a story or read a story. When I go to other TG sites, the text resembles the old alt.stories email style of the early days of the Internet. Which is to say, sorry FM, ugly. BC has a pretty style sheet which makes writing a story fun and enjoyable.
Just so you know, I have decided to keep BC as the only site I publish my work on. It is not that I feel that I am that great a writer. It is that if it inspired me to write again, I feel it deserves my loyalty for the gift BC has given me to share my meager talent and the blessing of setting my muse free to express herself.
Well, those are my thoughts.
AuP
So, how did I end up here?
Gee, about twenty years ago (take a couple I guess) I found Tucker in the USENET. From there I went looking for similar stories. That lead me to Sapphire's place and FM. Eventually I found this place too. Then I went away for a while. When I came back, I found FM and Sapphire's place to be less satisfactory, and this place to be better. So now I hang out here, SOL and Whateley Academy.
No Cost Targeted Advertising
Have someone do a survey of (completed) popular BCTS Serials.
Contact the author and ask the author to post one (1) chapter (only) on Fictionmania and similar sites. Request the author add a small note at the bottom of the chapter listing the link to the next chapter posted on BCTS AND the total number of chapters in the serial posted on BCTS.
re: donations
according to my account, I have been a member for 8 yrs 3 mon. I found bc by accident. I had been reading crystals site and saphires. idont remember exactly but I am glad I did. not bragging but I give every month because I can. thank you erin and all your helpers for keeping bc up. long live BC
robert
Same here
I'd been posting on Crystals for a bit but it sort of stopped working. FM was ok but it got really heavy into Forced Fem and I found this site by accident from a comment on FM.
I've blocked all advertising from this and every other site I use but I have probably donated far more than any advertising clicks have generated over the years. Not so easy to donate now that I'm retired but every few months $50 or $100 comes Erin's way.
Samantha
Blocking advertising
I'll add a point here.
I know that some site owners complain bitterly when their users block advertising. What they seem to forget is that some of their users are unable or unwilling to make use of that advertising. As far as the users are concerned adverts just use up screen real estate and page download time.
Take my own circumstances, for example. I'm in the UK. Sites advertising stuff for sale in the US are almost irrelevant. To get stuff here I'd have to wrestle with Paypal and then have my purchases sent internationally. I've been down that road with other suppliers and it is... unfriendly, to say the least. Lastly, the site would have to offer something I want (other than stories) and that hasn't happened yet.
I don't click on adverts. Ever. If I want something I'll go out and do the research - or do the research on-line, but in my time and with my own plan. I get to decide what I want to buy and when. Blocking adverts does the website a service, since they don't have to format and send me something I won't read anyway.
Penny
PS I do buy ebooks from the US, since nothing has to be dispatched. I have a dollar pre-pay credit card which http://www.baenebooks.com/ happily accepts, unlike Paypal which converts my dollars back into pounds (because the address is in the UK) and then back into dollars, taking a cut each way. But Baen is the exception.
The Breast Form Store - UK!
Just as a very side note... Our biggest advertiser on BigCloset, The Breast Form Store, has a UK Presence - https://secure.thebreastformstore.co.uk/ - I'm not entirely sure but I think they do warehouse some stuff in the UK.
-Piper
Mixed Messages
I think I found BCTS through FM. I like the friendly safe environment here, the story quality and that the stories are generally not gratuitously violent, sex, or demeaning. BC encourages a general family atmosphere (politics and religion are kept to a min) in a genre not usually known for it; by that I mean we are by nature private individuals.
But I wonder if you could classify/group stories and authors under titled sections. Like fanfiction,YA, Magic, SciFi, etc., maybe even Amazon authors. I do know search engines finds sites through their tags and it seems to me a subheading using the more popular tags under BCTS might draw additional traffic. If you have a sub section for Amazon authors it could include a sample like it shows on Amazon.
I don't know BCTS business structure but Amazon has a designation for non-profit charitable organizations that you can use to donate a portion of your purchases to. Could you set up a HatBox subscription page on Amazon that releases a book or two each week. By doing that they will get new content each week. Or maybe a pateron page where Amazon gets a %.
I'm sure we are not monolithic buyers here so why not an Amazon deal of the day offering or go to Amazon and search for popular sales or search terms and offer some of them. I don't know how EBay works or if they're other similar sites you could use instead or in addition to.
I'm guessing were you to designate sections/labels you could also see which section received the most interest/traffic/pageviews and emphasize those sections. Survey Monkey offers free surveys that you can use to gauge interest in maybe products they buy or whatever that you can offer as deal of the day or an affiliate link. It could be people might want an alarm system, pepper spray, or mace; who knows.
I don't know feasible any of this is but those are some ideas.
Wow What A Boatload of Ideas
Search engnes don't rely on tags as much as they once did. The Google bots are capable of reading for context to some degree. In the old days you could stuff tags and acheive good results, now that gets you penalized.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I'm not saying to
stuff keywords but under magic as an example have one locked at the top that is chock full of content and context and then the newer stories underneath. And you could rotate the top story at regular intervals weekly or monthly to keep it fresh for the search engines. That should satisfy google.
I can't remember how i got to BC
I've spent time at FM (don't like it much now); Crystal (now defunct?!); Sapphire (also defunct?); and even Literotica ! - they all seem to have tiny readership except Literotica.
I suggest posting some of the 'better' mid-length stories there with a ref to BC (if they will allow it).
I think barter with other sites may be viable or with magazines and the like.
I would be happier (as per one suggestion) to donate time in lieu as proofreader / editor / keyword-amender but accept that anything more than proofing would need time-consuming training ie less money-time for Erin.
I did win a Hatbox prize for a story - but was never able to access anything - as time has passed i'll give that back - if it helps?
Asking for money from new arrivals seems wrong - but asking people who have been visitors for a year seems very reasonable.
I recollect on one of these sadly frequent pleas for money, help, support, encouragement that there were some details about the typical squeeze per month - there are over 1000 AUTHORS so I have no idea how many readers there are. But an early comment was about the Salesmanship of asking for money - (not my area of expertise) - what about the (salesmen/) saleswomen preferably and their suggestions.
I'll see what I can contribute otherwise.
Thanks to everyone - authors, readers and web-ladies too.
Alys P
I'm not sure, but I think I found BCTS by sheer luck!
About four years ago, I was trolling through sites like FM, Crystal's Storysite, Sapphire's Place, Fictioneer!, TG Storytime, TGFiction.net. Then I decided to use the evil Google, typed in transgender/transsexual stories and one of the sites that came up frequently was BCTS. Voila!
I barely look at the other sites anymore. FM, like others have said, seems to have a rather strong element of forced femme present, with far too many of those stories seeming to be brought on by one or more person's/hatred/disgust/animosity toward small and/or non-macho males.
The other thing that turns me off about FM is the focus on sex, especially the pushing of the new girl to fuck and be fucked by "real" men.
I apologize for my language, but I've always been rather blunt and I'm not about to change that just to assuage a few bruised egos.
Quite a few ideas have been raised by some of the folks here, it remains to be seen whether Erin and co can use some of them.
Please DON'T restrict access to the stories here. That will only drive people who can't afford to pay away from a very good and safe site.
Give the option, as it is now, to pay into the site through Hatbox/donations/Patreon, etc. Don't force people to pay first, they'll run away.
As a few others who responded to this blog have said, I am willing to help with editing and proofing of stories. If interested, send me a PM.
Financial considerations
OK, I'll throw a few ideas into the discussion. These are just brainstorming thoughts not fully worked out, so may have downsides as well as possible upsides. Tear them apart or discuss the merits as appropriate.
*There are other advertising possibilities. Auctions or buy it now offers of discounted premium memberships on ebay, craigslist, etsey, ect. If this were to be implemented I think there should be a more concise mission statement of the website and premium membership so people would have a better idea of what they were purchasing.
*Authors that are considering moving their polished stories to Amazon might benenfit from a month or two of moving them into the Premium Story section first and putting a notice on these that spelling and grammatical error notification would be appreciated.
*Tiered membership would allow a certain number of free stories and then a fee for more access. I belong to a online game site called Fantastic Contraption that was modeled like this. You can build Rube Goldburg type machines that work in virtual space. Much of the site's popularity came from user generated forums that created ideas for new content. At one point there were over a million members playing and the membership was a one time fee of $5.00. Sponsorship from the founders and the players was available on a limited basis for people that were not able to pay the $5.00. That moniterization model did not sustain the site for more than about 4 years before another type had to be introduced, although there was some mis-management that caused part of the problem.
*Pledge drives where matching moneys are donated to increase the leverage of other donations could be used, i.e. PBS pledge drives.
*Author contests could be implented into the premium stories section with increased revenue from there paying the winning authors.
*Even though there is a strong TG theme to most stories, other popular categories are also represented here. SF, fantasy, RPG, are some without going into the many varied gender and sexual romance types. A more user friendly search function could draw more readers interested in reading their preferences.
*There are many talented people here writing and reading. It appears some have business talents and are retired or semi-retired. It's kind of a shame that they can't volenteer to buff up the website and business model to make the finances more secure.
*Now this one is kind of sensitive and I understand if it may rub people the wrong way. I sometimes wonder if mamagement here is getting enough bang for thier buck (literally) concerning their financial model. It seems like they have their hands full keeping the site running, and I don't know how much thought has been put into maximizing their return. For example, would they be better off with a nonprofit designation? Are they properly incorporated to take most advantage of their tax benefits and so on. I don't have expertise in this area but I bet there are people on here that do. If this has any merit it would possibly tie into the volunteer idea above.
*I'm not sure of the business arrangement between Doppler Press and this organization. I don't understand why a stronger association couldn't be made to bring the Doppler Press purchase offers and transactions right onto this site? I would think the increased traffic would be beneficial.
*There are some legacy TG sites hosted by BCTS. If the stories were to be combined here with credits to the legacy site owners I would think that would be a win-win situation.
I like the tiered membership
I also like the idea of 'earned' membership, I. E. an author can give a certain amount of work to the site and receive a 'comped' membership. I have a comped membership at SOL because most of my stuff is more mainstream than what is here, and I was there first (maybe... I think I found them in '98 and this site in early '99) I'm willing to give proofreading to people who ask. And people, we as authors all need a proofreader. I'm not up to in depth editing, but I can help some with that too as long as the story isn't too complex. Such as Sleether's Whisper which he started in First Person Present, but couldn't maintain. But I'm not sure how to help with what that story needs, which is to stay in the same tense as much as possible throughout.
Excellent Ideas
I especially like the idea of massaging your novel here for proof-reading before publishing.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Just to let everyone know...
We are reading this thread and talking about it internally. :)
Thanks everyone for caring and sharing these thoughts.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Promotion
As has been identified, sales via Amazon are pretty high and global. Prime members who subscribe to Kindle unlimited can also borrow books. My suggestion is that authors who place on Amazon also put a BC link at the end of their books. This way you know that you are reaching the right audience.
CM = Cross-Marketing
Great idea. I'm sure the people at Doppler Press will consider it.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
How
Can't chat for long, so I'll keep this brief.
First came across Sapphire's Place, got hooked on Tanya Allan's and Melanie Brown's stories, then came here for some more stories. Not sure whether I found fictionmania or bigcloset first, but I certainly found Sapphire's Place first.
Bigcloset is the first place I posted my tg stories, though. Stanman suggested me to post on fictionmania too, but I don't know, it just felt too troublesome. I miss that guy.