TopShelf TG Fiction in the BigCloset!
Just finished binge watching Thirteen Reasons Why on Netflix.
This should be required watching for every high school student.
It scored a 90 on Rotten Tomatoes.
Accurate portrayal of bullying.
Quite moving.
Jill
Checks can be made out & sent to:
Joyce Melton
1001 Third St.
Space 80
Calimesa, CA 92320
USA
Note: $6000 is the operating, maintenance and upgrade budget. Amounts received in excess of the $6000 will be applied to long term debt accrued over the last 19 years.
If you prefer, you can donate through Patreon:
Become a Patron!
Thank you!
Comments
Mixed opinions
I have mixed opinions on 13 Reasons. I'm sure there are some lessons that can be taken away from the story, but there are some aspects of it that I wouldn't want to teach to kids.
SPOILER WARNING!
Perhaps it's portrayed differently in the Netflix series, but in the novel I found Hannah very self-centered. Yes, we all are at times. However, some of the "reasons" that were used actually had nothing to do with her personally. Hannah literally blames others for her death. She arbitrarily made half of the "reasons" about her; internalizing them as secrets, instead of approaching an authority figure that could have helped. In the novel she approaches one person, and simply gives up because he says something she didn't want to hear. I don't like the message there: that if a guidance counselor doesn't give you the perfect advice, you should just end it all. If you witness an illegal act, you go to the police, not a guidance counselor.
Through the tapes, she drags others into her path of self-destruction; using the threat of making the tapes public if they don't listen to them and follow her wishes. It's not really a teaching moment, unless the lesson you want to convey is blackmailing and to "bring everyone else down with you." Her tapes could be considered as another form of bullying. She essentially records the activities of those around her, and puts them right back in their faces. Not only that, but the other recipients of the tapes now know the dark secrets of those other characters. Hannah lived with unnecessary guilt, so she put guilt back onto their shoulders. How is that any better than what they were doing to her?
In the end, you're left with another message that we should try to read peoples' minds and guess what they're going through. While it should focus on the tapes teaching we should open up to others, especially if we have problems we're dealing with. But in the book, it's too late for Hannah, as the message is already lost, because she is lost. She easily could have opened up to Clay, instead of using him as one of the reasons she killed herself.
END SPOILER WARNING!
It might be an accurate portrayal of bullying, but it hardly sends good messages on how to deal with it. That's just my opinion.
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
Excellent Discussion
My spouse and I spent a great deal of time talking through every one of the issues you've raised.
Most often we said -- thank God our children were born when they were and out of high school before social media caught fire. It was touch and go for two of them without that additional pressure. Hannah was very much like our baby, even looked a lot like her. Our baby was bullied by standard mean girl crap for six years. Thank God she was able to get through it.
Hannah is definitely self-centered. I think that the vast majority of those who commit suicide are self-centered. It would be extremely hard for someone fully aware of those around them to create so much collateral damage simply to try to "solve" their problems.
She placed too much weight on how a poorly trained guidance counselor reacted. She expected Clay to give a perfect response to an perfect situation. She seemed oblivious to her parents' problems except in the very shallow ways they impacted her.
I felt like I did in college when I took all those psychology courses. It's easy to see anti-social behavior in everyone. It's easy to see bi-polar behavior in everyone, etc.
It seems to me that they talked about the suicide warnings signs quite often and stated that those signs were exhibited by every student in Liberty High.
I think the story was trying to say, "Suicides continue to plague our society because people refuse to think about them." Her method of forcing people to face up to her "reality" was crude, but effective.
I agree with your apparent dislike of Hannah -- and many of the characters when they said that Hannah was a liar. She was an unreliable narrator. She was a bit of a drama queen.
What I didn't like was that half the supposed sophomores, juniors, and seniors looked to be in their late twenties.
Still the consistent message was that actions have consequences.
Having had so many around me commit suicide I've been thinking about it for much of my sixty-nine years. I've concluded that the majority of young people who commit suicide think there are no consequences for that action for them other than to end their pain. I'm convinced that many of them think they will commit suicide, end their problems, and miraculously go forward with a wonderful life. I wonder how surprised they are when they just die.
I reject your suggestion that Hannah has dragged the others into their morose. I think they would have inevitably had to deal with their individual problems had they never met Hannah. I agree with Hannah -- Bryce was the negative catalyst. He was an expert predator and understood and exploited human frailty.
I agree that she should have gone to the police. Don't most schools have law enforcement outreach? It seemed the portrayal of law enforcement in this was as a good ol' boy club that was totally bias and inept. I didn't understand that message.
The other consistent message is that you aren't alone. Even those who appear to be at the top of the heap are lonely and scared.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Police are inept
I find that to be a problem in most shows I watch now. They portray police as bumbling idiots who couldn't solve a crime even if they had a wikihow page for it. While there might still be some Barney Fifes out there, I get tired of the "we shouldn't tell the police, because they won't help" trope.
Case in point, and one of the things I laughed at in your post (see: teens in their late twenties), would happen to be the show Pretty Little Liars. I admit to getting a lot of inspiration from shows like this, as I mostly write young adult fiction. But the whole show revolves around their secrets, and their misplaced mistrust in the Rosewood police. They think they can try to fix things themselves, and end up causing more trouble.
I wouldn't exactly say I "hate" Hannah's character in 13 Reasons. I feel her character would've been better served if she actually didn't commit suicide, but instead pushed the other characters to own up to their behavior. She still would've been a conniving blackmailer, in my estimation. But at least the suicide wouldn't feel like a plot device to impact the characters to "feel." The story sets her up as the victim, when she is actually victimizing the others on the tapes. It felt like she used it all to give Mr. Porter an "I told you so" in the end.
Basically it's now on Mr. Porter, as the last person, to do the job Hannah thought he should have done. If he fails to do so, the events on the tapes will remain in an inner circle and never come to light. They should have just come to light in the first place, without the run-around. But that all circles back to mistrust of the police (or any competent authority figure), I suppose...
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
I don't watch Netflix
so will probably never see the film you discuss. I think I would argue against your blanket statement ,'I think that the vast majority of those who commit suicide are self-centered. It would be extremely hard for someone fully aware of those around them to create so much collateral damage simply to try to "solve" their problems.' I suspect that the truth nearer that those who kill themselves are probably in such a dark place they no longer are capable of thinking normally and the need to deal with their pain is paramount. 1 in 4 people suffer some sort of mental health issue during their lives, sadly too many end up on a slab because the social pressures inhibit them seeking help and what help there is is usually very inadequate.
We need to reduce young peoples' use of social media as the dark side of it is truly wicked. Didn't some girl in the States use it to cause a younger boy to kill himself? Aren't those who police it only interested in dollar signs and couldn't give a toss about the lives it damages? We seem to be living increasingly in a jungle and while I respect most people are decent and okay, a large minority seem perverse or damaged in some way.
Angharad
self-centered
I have to agree with you. I've only known 2 people who committed suicide. One was a man who was depressed when his son was killed in Vietnam, the other was my wife son who had schizophrenia, and his doctors chose to fiddle around with his medication. Neither was especially self-centered. My wife's son I knew well and that description would not apply at all.
///
nevermind
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Read the original book sad
Read the original book sad but verytrue