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Look, no callin the cops or any other drama, OK?
I'm just really needing to hear if their is any new research on Transgender Genetics. I mean NEW. I do not mean the stuff that gets warped to conform to our own wishes, but real science. I follow this stuff closely, and if it is not dated 2011, it is probably not new to me. Sorry, don't mean to sound snotty, snide or snasty. My stress levels are just off the chart right now. I'm aware of the study recently done in OZ.
I'm about to face off with an individual to argue my case, and I really need to "Pack The Cannons", um so to speak. I'm gonna pour my heart and soul into this meeting. I know Bible theory really well, and I try as hard as I can with genetics.
If you don't have any new information, then prayers will be gratefully accepted.
Gwendolyn
Comments
Proof? Really?
"I'm about to face off with an individual to argue my case, and I really need to "Pack The Cannons", um so to speak. I'm gonna pour my heart and soul into this meeting. I know Bible theory really well, and I try as hard as I can with genetics."
It sounds very much you are about to enter into an argument; arguments are the result of -refusing- to see the other's point of view, or accept their substantiating facts.
In the case of arguing with an opponent who is equipped with only the bible, their beliefs and prejudices they have all the proof they will ever need and there is nothing in this world that can pry them off of their ignorance if they choose to hang on to it.
Their world is still flat, it is only 6000 years old, the Earth is the center of the Universe, we were created by God in his image without the benefit of evolution, and finally gender and sexual preference are choices that can be prayed (preyed) away.
Do you honestly think someone so ignorant is going to accept whatever proof you can offer up?
When they get to the part that God made you perfect, what right do you have to altar that?, counter with all those cleft palates, club feet, thalidomide babies etc, we should do nothing for them either, right? Make sure you get a solid answer from them on that one.
Good luck.
Don't think so
Proof? No, I don't think there's anything big new recently - anything that new would be still almost by definition unproven anyway. Science is like that. We *think* there's a brain difference, we *think* it's congenital. But ultimately there's no scientific test to prove you're TS or not. It's not "written on the body". That possibly explains some of the intersex-envy some - probably a lot of TSs experience at least at some point. A desire to have it written there and incontrovertible.
But it's not. Ultimately, therefore, it's about self-determination. You *feel* that this is the right thing to do, and you feel it strongly enough to write it on your body yourself, and you must assert your right to do so - not least by demonstrating that you're otherwise basically sane. Hence referrals.
That's all there is, really, that's fixed and true: Your right to do what you need to do to become yourself. And that's where we come up against religionists. (Which I'll say are distinct from merely religious people thus: religionists want to impose the strictures of their religion *as they interpret it* on other people through any means possible, including political change. It's about control. Control of sex, of procreation, of women's bodies. Yes, it has that in common with abortion rights issues. It's mostly the same people who want to stop it. And these people are notoriously resistent to "proof" anyway. Don't fight the wrong war!)
Cause Not Necessarily Genetic
Dear Gwen,
Best of luck. You Go Girl!!!
Seriously, though, some people thrive in a high stress environment or when they are highly stressed (if there is a difference...). Personally, I've found that stress is bad for me and I probably go farther than necessary to avoid it. Unless you are sure that stress is good for you, you might want to take some time off from your research and relax a little. Don't harm yourself if you don't have to. Lots of us love you!
About causes of transsexualism/GID, I think my mom took DES, thought to prevent miscarriages, while I was in her and that caused my brain to feminize. Some of my T friends about my age, 62, are sure their mothers took DES. It might be that only sons of DES moms with a certain genetic predisposition became TS, I don't know. OTOH, if a womb/placenta for a boy is flooded with a feminizing chemical at just the right time, the boy's genetics might only matter slightly. It seems, now days, that genetics or epigenetics are found to have involvement in all sorts of conditions/diseases/etc., but I also keep reading that people with so&so genes are 1.8 (or whatever) times more likely to get condition XYZ than non so&so gene bearing people. It seems to be a risk factor rather than a cause.
Occam's razor would indicate that if there is one undoubtable cause of something, like a feminizing chemical bath, it's more likely that that is the cause, than that there are 2 or more causes (I think). If a gene determined protein effecting testosterone expression (per the OZ study) is more prevalent in TSs than in men, for example, it would be good to know if there are non-TSs that also have this genetic condition and if or how many of these non-TSs are somewhat TG, gay, more passive, less fertile, etc.
Possibly a cause can be found in some of the mother's genetics. Possibly there is a genetic cause for some TSs, while others are caused by the womb environment, physical/mental/emotional problems in the mother to cause her to have a surge of a feminizing hormone at just the right (or wrong) time, or fem hormone like chemical pollution and/or birth control drugs in the water supply.
Rachel, IMHO, better imaging techniques with more resolution, like MRI, which are probably in development now, might be able the show a feminized brain or feminized gender identity region of the brain in M2Fs. Apparently now brain imaging shows that lesbians and het men have similar structures/ thicker regions while gays and het wimyn have similar thicker brain regions.
Gwen, that reminds me, you can talk about the older brain autopsy studies that show a region of M2Fs brains is the same size as in females (not halfway in between) and different than in males. I think the fact that we are physically different is more important than the cause of this difference.
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
Ready for work, 1992.
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
Brain Studies
Renee,
That was also confirmed in the MRI studies by Dr Joy Shaffer in San Jose.
Occam's Razor...
...only shaves so far. In the case of genetic effects, there are so many known sites within our genome that appear to affect our mental and physical development in many ways, all interacting with each other through either complex or unknown means, that the notion of "multiplying entities" cuts both ways. Introducing one particular "effect" which appears to manifest in many variations, yet is situated in one particular locus introduces a single "all-powerful" entity into a cast of thousands, all singing, all dancing.
Back in the early days of second-wave feminism, there was a slogan going around, "Any woman can!"
The last (and often unspoken) part of that declaration was "...be a lesbian."
And strangely enough, it's true. "Biology" is not necessarily destiny, no matter how delicately dissected.
Just as there were, and are, "political" lesbians and self-styled "born" lesbians, the fact is that we can and do remake ourselves all the time, and choose self-expressions based largely upon what options are available within a particular culture. When, for example, was the last time you felt compelled to enter the state of "running amok?" Even in Malaysia, people no longer become insane in quite that manner, because running amok is passé, and all those au courant with the latest fashions in mental health have neuroses or psychoses instead. Running amok is just so last week.
Brains don't matter, except that we have them. We are creatures of infinite possibility who live within finite societies. All human societies make some attempt to "prune" (or espalier) the outliers.
Cheers,
Puddin'
Whatever happened to Fay Wray?
That delicate satin-draped frame?
As it clung to her thigh, how I started to cry
'Cause I wanted to be dressed just the same.
Give yourself over to absolute pleasure,
Swim the warm waters of sins of the flesh,
Erotic nightmares beyond any measure,
And sensual daydreams to treasure forever.
Can't you just see it? Whoa ho ho!
Don't dream it, be it.
Don't dream it, be it.
-- Dr. Frank-N-Furter, The Rocky Horror Picture Show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T9gYbrarYY
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
gender research
do you mean human or animal or anythng dealing with a gender change in anything liveing ??
Common Ground
I don’t think the issue is about either nature (genetics) or nurture. Better to find common ground. Ideally, religion helps to inspire people to true free choice, undetermined by millions of years of instinct as a species or the programming of our early formative years as individuals. It is about the exercise of free will, ungoverned by our biology or upbringing. Religion helps some to make choices which overcome their desire to kill, steal, lie, etc. due to instinct or training.
In the same way, the transgendered are embracing free choice by rejecting the dead hand of million years of breeding instinct, or decades of gender training. For most of us, our upbringing was determined by our culture into behavior roles that are limited by gender stereotypes. In doing so, men and women are forced to repress the fullness of their capabilities as human beings. The transgendered aspire to free choice by embracing the best of female and male, and hopefully act with true compassion and love.
Nature, Nurture, Genetics, and Chemistry
I've traveled a bit, and know several people who have made the whole world their playground. In our own way, Americans, or at least the America that I grew up in, was very conservative. Now days, I think Americans are programmed, hedonistic, sheep. Everywhere we turn, we are force fed poisonous pablum by the media until we think the laughable is normal.
My own childhood started out with me as a cossetted, and doted upon female infant, the youngest of the family. All that ended when my Mother stupidly had an afair with a married man, whose wife was dying of Leukemia. This guy was a homophobic ass who'd been himself abused as a child. So, according to some rule, he passed it on and suddenly demanded that I be a boy. I was 4. He might have succeeded with a measure of gentleness, but using his warped Amish background, he decided to grind me down until I submitted. Before I was in first grade, I remember turning a baleful eye on him and vowing that I'd never be like him. He became the symbol of what males were like. My own older brothers were in their young teens and absent as much as they could be. He tried beating them into submission, but they were old enough that they just beat the shit out of him.
By now, he had a little son of his own, but could not beat him, because he had scarlet fever, a very serious disease in the 50s.
So, for me, the die was set and though I had to work with men, I was always warry of them, and of course working with men, there is always this competition, one-ups-man-ship, and of course in the lunch room tales, the first liar never had a chance. I just abore dealing with people who always tell the tallest tale.
When Mental Illness struck me, I was fed up with pretending, fed up with acting macho, fed up with being the smallest all the time, and hearing the faggot, sissy comments. The only thing that saved me was I did better work than most of them, so they developed a grudging respect for me. For me, it was time to die, or be me.
So, in my case GID could simply have been a case of extreme abuse. I know there must be a genetic factor that strikes some of us, because I have seen T folk with very feminine bodies.
In the final analysis, though perhaps the only thing that matters is being true to ourselves. I know that if this guy tries to push me into being Male again, we will be finished. I know I made an honest effort with them. All the withheld priveleges, and prophetic admonishment will just fuel the fire of wrath burning within me.
I will be finished and would then be able to live my life out as my inner soul demands. I'll get new peircings in places unmentionable. I really liked my nipple rings, and nose ring. This time I'll get a naval one too. It will be my aim to be the hottest little belly dancing slut. After all nothing matters does it?
Hala
Just relax Gwen...
And don't try to "argue" with him. Simply be honest, and be yourself, and let things happen as they will.
I honestly don't think you have that much to worry about as long as you're not looking to make a scene.
Abigail Drew.
Abigail Drew.