TopShelf TG Fiction in the BigCloset!
It's near midnight and I am exhausted, so I won't get this properly covered. I was reading an article about Trans Kids that asserted Trans folk are by in large MENSA folk. That is quite a claim. I'll try to get back to this tomorrow.
Gwen
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Comments
Stealth
The information transsexuals may generally be MENSA is usually an obscure paper put out now and then. It is a difficult subject because most trans dumb down when they think they may be taking an intelligence test. They want to fit in with society in more ways than physically. The other reason they are so well hidden is because of their small numbers compared to the rest of the population. It's been kicked about transsexuals make up approximately one percent of the population. In layman's terms that would be one in every hundred, or .01. I have no idea who or where they took the poll. I have never done research in that direction but my best guess is the numbers is closer to one in every thousand. Or in mathematical terms .001.
A lot of theory about transsexuals other than a female brain in a more or less male body or visa versa. Being such a small number in the total population we will remain the Step Child of humanity unless things change. I can only imagine what the outcry would be if society thought transsexuals were generally more intelligent than Joe Blow.
Hugs Gwen, sweet dreams
Barb
Life is a gift. Treasure it.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Hidden Research Papers
Where would one begin hunting for research done on the intelligence of Transgendered? There is absolutely nothing of the paper I found almost thirty years ago. Doing a Google search is really thin as expected. But then wording the search is more critical than usually as the subject is rare. It would have to be dead on to hit the scientific paper one was hunting. This isn't it but gives a hint of the intelligence factor.
https://tinyurl.com/3vs7cwhx
Hugs People
Barb
Life is a gift. Don't waste it.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Pretending
is something that we do all the time.
Be it pretending to be as dumb as all the people we interact with (the anti-smartass thing)
or pretending to fit in at work or in education or in social situations
most of us do it without even thinking.
Sometimes we have to do it to survive. I did it at school until I left at 15. If you did your homework, you were beaten up. If you didn't pay off the protection racket each week (using the money you were supposed to buy lunch with) you were beaten up. So you pretended to be normal just to survive.
I left school with six very average GCSE's and stopped pretending. Six years later I obtained an honours degree in Mechanical Engineering.
Samantha
Prevalence of transsexualism
Percentage of TS in the population
Lynn Conway has done some estimates of the number of transsexuals, based on a number of more or less known numbers (e.g., number of SRS done per year), and came up with a lower bound of 0.2%. Given how the numbers of surgeons doing SRS has gone up in the meantime, 1% seems more likely than 0.1%.
MENSA:
My understanding is that the qualification for being in MENSA is getting a high score on some so-called "intelligence" test or tests. (Whether that measures what we usually imagine when we use the word "intelligence" is debatable, but that's a whole separate topic.)
Is what you're talking about based on the number of people who join MENSA, or who take the tests? That is likely to be a pretty biased sample of the population at large, though it's not clear which way it biases the numbers.
Frankly,
I think there are too many variables and unknowns, not to mention prejudices and misconceptions to get an accurate, reliable handle on this conundrum; IQ vis-a-vis LGBT.
This is perhaps because LGBT people are on the inside looking out and therefore invariably have better 'insight'. This insight validated by it's perpetual life-reference mechanisms will almost certainly present to external observers as 'intelligence' when addressing questions and answers surrounding LGBT.
Here's a cruel and insensitive question but one that perhaps needs addressing.
Are supposedly less intelligent LGBT people tormented more by the questions they cannot answer in their own heads because they might not have the communication skills to express the questions or understand any self discovered or externally offered solutions?
An even more poignant question asks if that same ill-understood internal torment causes most of the LGBT suicides, or is it the persecution suffered from society.
I have not found a full answer just little bits here and there that seem to make sense. My problem then becomes determining and building the 'whole', and I don't suppose I ever will now.
Throw in the Sexuality' conundrum and it just gets more convoluted.
There. That's my two bits worth.
Bev.
it gets more complex
than that even, quite quickly!
First you need to define the exact group you are talking about, for example, does it include only 'officially' transgendered individuals or is the net wider taking in transvestites and those others who fall under the whole TG umbrella. Not only that but if we are talking about children, whilst some children 'know' that they are TG at an early age, many struggle into adulthood and beyond before identifying their issues - this is, in my experience, in inverse proportion to the economic state of the family so not directly to do with intelligence. Then of course there are others who deny their gender/sexual issues as a matter of self preservation, we are hardwired for survival over all else, so are less likely to be identified in any study.
As for the numbers, again, what are we counting? If its anyone who has (outside of a costume event) experimented/worn clothes of the opposite gender that could well be 1% of the population, perhaps more. OTOH, if we are talking those who are at least regular crossdressers that will be smaller and the number who have transitioned or who are dressing publicly an even smaller number still.
In short, a large number of individuals who qualify as being on the TG spectrum, particularly those on the lower socio economic steps are so hidden that they will never be picked up in research. Another spanner in the figures is that F to M is badly unrepresented, females are much more likely to consider themselves Bi or Lesbian than TG which is largely due to the general acceptance of females wearing male attire, a woman with short hair and a preference for work boots and trousers won't cause a second glance, a male even with just long hair gets funny looks, put a dress on and suddenly they become a sex fiend pariah! Religous and social double standards that are reinforced from a young age, a five yo boy wanting to be a princess or maybe a ballet dancer is cute, a six yo - there's obviously something wrong with them, best beat/treat it out of them, it might be catching. Of course, by contrast there are no roles (at least in First World societies) which a girl might aspire to that is out of bounds due to gender.
Having said all that, purely on an anecdotal basis, of my TG/TV acquantances, 90% have a degree or higher level education across a variety of subject matter although there does seem to be some bias towards technology (at least 50%). There may be some bias in my sample as we tend to 'seek out' others of similar intelligence, likewise, my sample includes @ 75% of individuals who present as the opposite gender on a day to day basis.
Madeline Anafrid Bell
How do they find us?
"Then of course there are others who deny their gender/sexual issues as a matter of self preservation, we are hardwired for survival over all else, so are less likely to be identified in any study."
Thank you Maddy, so well put, not just the one sentence but your whole comment. Love your pic. I'd go out with this amazing lady if you could put up with an old worn out cowgirl. Should have took a selfie last night. You've seen the Youtube Walmart Customers? I don't wear a dress to town that often. I swear I had almost every male staring. Gotta figure out how to start taking and posting pics so everyone doesn't think I'm full of BS. LOL, well I am full of it. How does that go about "it's almost true if you take all the lies out of it".
Hugs Maddy, you're such an amazing lady. The miles you put on that bike would kill me if I tried to keep up.
Barb
Life is a gift. Don't waste it.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Wow Maddy, I have the same
Wow Maddy, I have the same thoughts about F to M . We have two lesbian women who live a few door away. One is stocky with short hair and wears men's clothes. If anyone saw her without knowing you would think she was a guy. She rarely gets a second glance . It just shows even though we are meant to be equal, looking and acting like a guy is still seen as something to aspire to. An upgrade.
If a guy tries to look female you are ridiculed by men and women. It is seen as "making yourself less than you were" Female qualities aren't seen as something to aspire to. Yet we say to our girls look you can be anything a man can be, not to our boys you can be anything a woman can be.
I had a message conversation about trans intelligence with Renee M last week. We were debating the speed a rock would fall from the upper atmosphere , it was to do with Charlies War in Beverly's story. Well she was giving me the facts and filled me in on her interesting life.
Leeanna
Basic Human Instinct
Men and women are different in more than body design. They also have different priorities in the sanctity of life and what is the most important to them. Keep in mind this does not apply to everyone as it seems in our society of free sex and the morals of an alley cat our society is changing.
Females who believe in the sanctity of life still are in the majority, I believe. They would give up their life to protect their babies and their children. Why do they defend their own child when he has turned into a monster killing and raping? That ingrained mother instinct. No matter how bad the child is, it is her own baby.
Males have a different priority. What is between their legs is the most important thing. It is their legacy to gift the world with their seed. Through history men raped the women of the enemies they conquered as they made sure the offspring were of their seed. The reward of a conqueror.
Men will die before giving up what is between their legs. Are we beginning to see the light? MtF transsexuals cross that sacred barrier. They not only give that part of the anatomy up but do it willingly. They are abominations, the worse kind of non human to ever be given life, a sacrilege to what was blessed to males.
Get the message why so many roadblocks are thrown up, by men and laws, to keep MtF from achieving a congruence between mind and body? We scare the absolute shit out of most males! It's why the majority of women can accept us and the majority of men can not. Basic human instinct and we are a threat to men's masculinity. Until the mental attitude of men changes we are not a threat to them, nothing is ever going to change. Laws will stay in place stopping the treatment of TG individuals. Where is the best place to stop us? As children of course and many times it's too late to stop the changes the MtF despises. Is it any wonder trans has the highest suicide rate among all classes of people?
What's the answer? Just leave us the hell alone and let us live our lives. Almost every kind of surgery is available to men and women without question. Yet mention transgender and a dozen laws and regulations come into place before the individual can receive hormones much less surgery. We will never be left alone to find our own way until the basic fear we give to society changes.
Hugs Leeanna, Hugs People
Barb
Life is yours, yours alone unless you give that right to another. Even if we are slaves of society, it's still our life unless we give that up.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Thanks Barb, Men are 3-4
Thanks Barb, Men are 3-4 times more likely to commit suicide than women. I think men have this risk all to win/protect built in. Women are more cautious. They want to stay alive to produce the next generation or to look after them. Whereas men just need to perform the act of breeding. After that they are useful but not as necessary as women.
Well that and boys are told to grow up , man up, and not share your feeling because no one gives a fuck. Here's a gun , you go kill that lot over there, We don't want to know how you feel . Keep it all bottled up.
Leeanna
LGBT
That whole arena is confusing/alarming for me. Two Lesbians together isn't alarming to me. Two gay guys together bothers me, though I don't harass them. I just don't seem to connect with T folk, and wish them well. In my opinion those that I see and live in my area seem to make poor wardrobe choices. Most T Folk don't seem to have hips, yet seem to wear slim, tight clothes that put them on display. Most of us don't seem to grow breasts and when we wear falsies they seem to wind up being disproportionately too large. The other day, one of them was wearing high heels yet is likely over 6 feet in stocking feet. On the other hand, I dress like a nun, or a muslim woman and get by quite happily. For me it is all about camouflage.
When I was quite young, my grades were very low yet I was quite happy in school. It was a nice break to keep from being abused. I barely graduated from school, and in the military, I did only what I had to do. As to my intelligence, who cares?
Being generally dumb
I'm probably the exception that proves the rule. Not MENSA material and even if I was, I'm not that interested in being elitist, too lazy.
Angharad
Being yourself
is IMHO, the most important thing. I'm not interested in IQ or MENSA stuff which used to drive my American Colleagues crazy who were very much into GPA's and what 'school' you had gone to. Being totally bored by the endless stats that prevail in US Sports classed me as an idiot but that's life. I take people as I find them. One of the smartest people I ever met was almost illiterate but boy, was he world wise.
I know that I know a lot of ephemera (mostly crap).
My Lefthanded brain is sort of like that. Odd, decidedly odd.
Samantha
nice try
but i'm afraid it just doesn't wash!
Is MENSA material something like silk? I'm the sows ear so there's no hope for me!
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Maddy...
you are just a late-developing genius.
Samantha
i've
certainly been called worse!
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Tho' it's fine to be a genius, of course
put that old horse before the cart-
First you gotta have heart!
~hugs, Veronica
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Hi Again, Barbie
I think if you want to know something about trans people, ask the already mentioned Lynn Conway. She knows an awful lot and probably knows scientists and researchers who might know about these things.
I knew some Tgals at Motorola in the Phoenix Area; they all had high level technical jobs.
I never had the idea of acting dumber at school. In junior high school (the 7th year of grade school out of 12) all the kids were channeled. The top group was advanced placement in English, Math and Science. The next in English and Math, my group was advanced in Math and Science. I had good vocab and reading skills, but I wasn't that verbally expressive and I was terrible at spelling. Things I wrote in class were marked down for bad spelling and my writing output was low, cuz it took a long time writing anything, struggling spelling about 1/4 of the words, trying different combinations of letters to see what looked right.
As far as I know from the HS kids I talked with, we all tried to do as well as possible on the standardized tests. I was told I had an IQ of around 170. The Scholastic Aptitude Test was for college placement; it had a math and verbal portion each worth 800 points. I think I had about a 1500. That was good for high school, but at MIT about 1/4 or more of the kids had 1600's.
I scored best relatively on the grad record test. There were standardized tests for law and med school and the grad records were for the rest of us. I scored in the 98.7 percentile overall, 99.9% in physics, 99.8% in math, high for chemistry, I think, and the like. I was kind of impressed because the group referenced was people applying to grad school, not just all college students.
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
Arrggggghhhhhhh Spelling
That was hard for me when I woz young. Then a smart English teacher recognised the signs of dsylexia. I went for a diagnosis in Nov '68. Yep, I ticked all the boxes. Once I knew what it was and had some guidance I coped a lot better. Remember that this was all in the days before autocorrect (for better or worse).
Don't get me started on my handwriting. Since the advent of personal computers, it has gotten so bad that most doctors scrawl is more readable than mine. Most of that was down to going to a primary school where if you were a leftie, you had to sit on your left hand and write with your right. That would be considered child abuse these days.
We are all different creatures and much of that difference is down to how what is between our ears works. That is one of the great unsolved mysteries of our age.
Samantha
Handwriting
I was lucky in that regard, back when my 5th grade teacher got grumpy about my handwriting (even holding me back in math as punishment until my father showed up to protest). We had just gotten an Apple 2e with a dot matrix printer so I immediately switched to typing all reports and 'spelling stories'. Anyone remember the 'Incredible Jack' word processor program? :)
My admittedly snarky opinion at the time was that my handwriting was more legible than my father's - a professor of astrophysics - and thus it was plenty good enough...
At junior school I had 3
At junior school I had 3 female teachers my average was C for 3 years. My hand writing was bad. All we did was copy what was on the board . In the last year we had a male teacher. He actually tested us . I came top in history, geography and biology. May average changed to A- . The female teachers were really grading me on neatness. I tested 124 on an IQ test once, recently 118-120 so not mensa material.
Leeanna
Starz on Thars
Supposedly the MENSA test identifies those who have a 140+ IQ.
A MENSA membership probably is a proxy variable indicating many other traits.
Recently two "gentlemen" decided to settle their differences with guns in a crowded bar. Their indifference to innocent bystanders left one woman dead and fourteen injured. The upscale bar is a few blocks from my house.
A few days ago a man drove his car through a parade killing five and injuring forty. Many were small children. It is almost impossible to understand that level of depravity.
It is absolutely essential that we stop depersonalizing those with stars on thars.
Being trans has never defined me. However, I've kept my closet door shut to prevent the discovery of my many pretty dresses.
I have a BLM sign on my lawn. Yet, I believe the lives matter. . .period.
Many of you may have seen the very disgusting YouTube video of the high school girl giggling while using the N word and telling her classmate to commit suicide. That video became even more gut-wretching to me when I realized the girl's grandfather had called me out for being "Whitey" three decades ago, in a business meeting. Obviously he has passed his hate on to another generation.
We are all different. A giraffe has the same number of vertebrate in his neck as a human because we are both mammals. We are all the same.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I Approve of Your Derailing of my Blog.
The world seems filled with hate and it seems to have gotten much worse in the last decade. I remember taking a short IQ test in probably grade school and I was apparently average.
The subject of transgender and MENSA
becomes even more clouded if you consider that in the 1950's and 1960's MENSA required a minimum "IQ" of 198 just to apply for admission. Today that has been lowered considerably as I have been led to understand. it is now down around 146.
Then... the use of "IQ" as a prerequisite is another conundrum. I intentionally did poorly in high school and continued to do that my first year of college. I woke up and finished my first degree in much better shape by the end of four years. The next four years produced two Masters degrees and an inroad into my Doctorate. ( Math, Physics, Chemistry ).
I never let my inner girl out because in the 60's there was little to no support for it and my parents would likely have thrown me into a bag and then the ocean at that time. I knew, however, that there was something "different" about me. "You throw like a girl" was but one of the slurs shouted at me as I grew up. Well, why shouldn't I? I am a girl despite how my medically assisted body looks. I would not subject myself upon the populace in a female appearance. The changes that were forced upon me ( remember, this is the 50's and the 60's - children had no say in how they were brought up - at least in Southern California ) caused me to look like a hairy ape. A girl is svelte, not a hairy monkey like I appeared by the age of nineteen. Ergo, I held my inner reality was a closely hidden secret except when at home alone. I remained alone because I could not father children, nor bear them.
If your life brings children into it, treasure them. Treasure all those who are close to you as relations, friends, even acquaintances.
Now? Now I'm 78. I'm not lonely but I am alone. This site probably comes closest to family since I am the last of my line. Brothers and sisters both older and younger are gone. Am I a woman? not physically. Am I MENSA material - well, not any more but once long ago I chose not to join when invited.
My conclusions?
Trans folk, possibly of all the varieties, are likely more intelligent than the masses. Why? it takes considerable intelligence to question and surmise and reason one's way through the mass of literary quicksilver to discover ( at a young age - mind you ) that things are not as they should be. Are transsexuals MENSA material? I'd say they are more likely to be than the general population. Unfortunately, most of us have become so adept at hiding ourselves that we seldom allow others to see or note our true intelligence.
For whatever this comment is worth..................
POOKA
Hugs
You're not alone, we're all here for you and as they say, 'we can't choose our families but we can choose our friends.' My mind has slowed down as I've got older and having difficulty with maths all my life, except with arithmetic, is possibly the numerical equivalent to dyslexia, I'm doing a degree in environmental science and still struggle with the statistics, they're not overly difficult according to my son in law, who's a whizz with spreadsheets and maths and who helped me through the trauma of my most recent assignment. I beat him at cryptic crosswords but they don't give degrees for those.
Angharad
Sophie Wilson
A real trans genius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Wilson
Instrumental in designing the BBC Micro and the ARM processor . The processor is used in most phones and tablets.
Amazing lady.
Leeanna
Be very careful
Be very careful, all this talk of MENSA will attract TERF's , they will say trans women don't Mensa-truate .
Sorry x
Leeanna
Mensa mensa mensae
I have my own theory which is mine. No, I'm not Ann Elk.....
I worked out that my left hemisphere and my right hemisphere are connected in a much more broadband way.
My spacial and my emotional actually interact without having to go via a map and a box of chocolates.
It is nice to be able to connect two or more concepts and end up with a viable result and sometimes a method normal folks, who are thin in the head, thick in the middle and have skinny ankles, can work with.