Well, I had an interesting conversation with my sister-in-law today. She believes that the main causes of my trans issues is my rape and the lack of a good male role model in my life. I think I have dealt with my rape enough to be sure that it would have made no difference if I had not been raped, but what about the lack of a father figure? Is there a connection between being trans and not having a good male or (in the case of transmen), a good female role model? Opinions?
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I don't think that's the
I don't think that's the case, personally. I have a very "Man's man" father figure in my life, but in all honesty, that's caused us nothing but strife because of it. He's not an emotional man. I understand that he loves me, but because we're so different, we can't talk about things. In a situation where I would cry, he might just shrug his shoulders.
I tried very hard to live up to his image when I was younger, but it always felt fake. It was an act, at best, and he saw right through it every time anyway.
To me, it feels like the same argument people try to use against homosexual couples adopting a child. They're scared that the child will "catch gay".
It's nature versus nurture, and the proof of that exists in every transman who's ever had to suffer the indignity of forced feminization at the hands of a well-meaning mother who wanted her daughter to be pretty.
But that's just my thoughts :-D
Edit: Also, you seem like you could use a bit of uplifting, so I tossed together a little graphic. I hope I got the color appropriate ^_^
team Dorothy
that's... so sweet, but what less should I expect from the queen of sweetness?
"You can survive a couple of weeks without food. You can survive a couple of days without water. You can even survive a couple of minutes without air. But you cannot survive for even a minute without hope."
Dorothycolleen
Raahhhhhhhh!
...let's start the wave. Seriously, my feelings about being girl predated my rape by at least four years; I may have been targeted as my uncle's only male victim out of several cousins just for that reason alone. At least that's what my previous therapist and I discussed. It's helpful to hash this over with a counselor, though. Helps to alleviate any undue feelings or guilt or doubt, you know.
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
Lack of father
I don't think there is good linkage between being TG and having no father around. For me, there is probably a genetic disposition, and Mom also named me Gwinn (which sounds like Gwen), my step father was a brutal, angry bastard, and I was really effeminate to boot. I still think the main causative factor is genetics.
Khadooj
There Is None That I Know Of
I know that there are a lot of families who have a father with a macho attitude and still have children who are TG. My parents were still together when I displayed my TS symptoms. I snuck downstairs one night and was putting makeup on in the bathroom when my dad caught me. Being LGBT is something that happens in the womb and parental status really has very little to do with it. The Focus On The Family crowd has criticized parents of TG children by telling them they aren't providing a strong masculine or feminine influence. Several of these families have a very strong masculine influence and it still didn't make any difference in how their child turned out. I know of several cases where a child would delay their coming out until they turned 18, but they still did it anyway. It was either do it or die. They feel they have no choice.
Adjusting Bieber
It sounds like your sister has fallen under the sway of a bit of psychological folklore that's been around since Irving Beiber's study of male homosexuals in the early sixties, only expanded to explain TS, since the two are hopelessly conflated by some as being equivalent, a sort of "deficiency of maleness". Beiber's studies that linked homosexuality to an emotionally absent father and a "smothering" mother have been largely refuted, since their statistical sample of male homos was taken from patients who had sought therapy---a generally unhappy group---while his nongay control group was canvassed from among self proclaimed heterosexuals who WEREN'T in therapy. Pretty flawed methodology, and many more recent studies have failed to back it up. But one bunch that still takes his theories as a given fact is groups like NARTH and Exodus International with a distinctly anti-LGBT agenda of cure-by-suppression, who will use whatever "science" seems to support their horseshit and ignore the rest as evil secular humanism.
~~~hugs, Veronica
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Reason
That's not the cause of it. I could go into the technical details, but I would just bore you. A lot of people believe that a lack of a parent leads to being transgendered. That is not true, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise
Veronica
ALISON
' you have said it all! There is so much clap trap being bandied about today by people who still believe all TGs are gay and that the condition is a mental aberration and can be cured.I know one trans girl,very pretty
and very girly who has been talked out of any further estrogen to " enable her to develop naturally as a female". She describes her condition as " gender fluid" ----please,don't ask me what it means, but she is still
taking anti androgens and will listen to no one but her 'Mentor" and she won't tell us who that is.Just stick
to the facts Dorothy and let Team Dorothy help you along the rocky road that we all traverse.
ALISON
Real research shows no connection
There’s no evidence that Freudian ideas like this have any basis in reality. Unfortunately, a lot of what’s out there in terms of “explanations†are really "Just So†stories that reflect only the author’s personal biases.
There isn’t a lot of hard scientific research on causes, but what there is points to a neurological basis, caused by hormone imbalances during prenatal development. Analogues to both transgendered and homosexual behavior exist in animals, and can be induced by fiddling with hormones in utero.
An excellent blog on the topic is A. E. Brain: http://aebrain.blogspot.com/
In particular, there’s a great reference section: http://aebrain.blogspot.com/search/label/Reference
As best we understand it today, people have cross-gendered feelings because their brain stems (where all emotions come from) are wired more or less in a cross-gendered way. It isn’t a learned behavior, as far as we know.
My own argument against this is simple
my brother was also raped, and grew up without a good male role model as well, and doesn't question his identity as a man, even a bit.
"You can survive a couple of weeks without food. You can survive a couple of days without water. You can even survive a couple of minutes without air. But you cannot survive for even a minute without hope."
Dorothycolleen
You're Right Dorothy!
You're right Dorothy! I have two brother's who are 13 months younger than me and my mother raised all 4 of us as a single parent from the time I was 15. My two brothers are both Officer's in the U.S Army and they never questioned their identity at all. They are men and proud of it. It never affected them one bit in their masculine development, not having our dad around. It just proves as you say, that two people can grow up under the same circumstances and still turn out opposite of each other. You were always a girl and he was always a boy and you both knew what you were from a very early age, so your sister-in-law's theory doesn't hold water.
My take
is that that idea is drivel. Can't be bothered to re-state what others have said more eloquently.
Maybe, maybe not.
I've read all the above comments and I think I kind of agree that the idea is mostly hogwash but then, there's my own data point to consider.
No rape in my childhood, neither me or anyone else I ever knew (that I found out about, that is). However, I didn't see my own father till I was three, since someone declared the Korean War open for business and he shipped out while my mother was pregnant. He stayed in the (Royal) Navy twelve years, spent four-five years at a land job and then went back to sea for another ten.
So I didn't see much of him at all for most of my childhood. I've often wondered whether this might have been a factor in making me what I am, but I've more or less decided that if he had been at home most of the time I would still be TG but my childhood would likely have been a great deal more unpleasant.
On the other hand, in terms of female role models my mother is four furlongs left of weird. Some of that was bad, some was good. At least I learned to cook, clean and make my own dresses at an early age ^_^
Penny
In my point of view sexual
In my point of view sexual identity is something one gets born with. And there is nothing in the world that could ever change this ground-setting. No event, no person, nothing. It just is the way it is.
------------
"Die Gedanken sind frei / Sie fliegen vorbei
Kein Mensch kann sie wissen / kein Jäger sie schiessen
Mit Kugeln und Blei / Die Gedanken sind frei"
------------
"Die Gedanken sind frei / Sie fliegen vorbei
Kein Mensch kann sie wissen / Kein Jäger sie schießen
Mit Kugeln und Blei / Die Gedanken sind frei"
If that was so
I have heard those same explanations as to why some of us are who we are today. I think so many before me stated the facts so well as to the misconceptions that many feel they need to explain something that they really can't or don't understand. For the longest time, I felt that the same reasons your sister in law gave you were the same ones I used to explained why I am who I am. Rape (once when I was 6 and again when I was 14, both time by older teens), lack of strong father/male figure in my childhood (Dad was a work-a-holic then ran off with another woman), strong Mother figure that raised me and treated me more like a daughter at times, etc. etc. etc.. And trust me when I say that I spent many hours in libraries trying to find the answers back in the 50's and 60's.
I also went through the whole DES discussion and how it affected males in the womb. My confusion and hatred of my body drove me to seek out a doctor when I was 22, that gave me testosterone treatments so that I could "supposedly" get my maleness to come out. It wasn't until the Internet came along and I was able to do better research as well as talk to others that I realized that it is a genetic trait that made me feel that I had been living a lie most of my life.
My point is that each of us must be how we feel and be comfortable with ourselves.
"Analogues to both
"Analogues to both transgendered and homosexual behavior exist in animals, and can be induced by fiddling with hormones in utero."
"As best we understand it today, people have cross-gendered feelings because their brain stems (where all emotions come from) are wired more or less in a cross-gendered way. It isn’t a learned behavior, as far as we know."
-This is semiotic ignorance. The noumenal (genetic) world exists, but the phenomenological plane is a groundless play of differential pragmatics.
Say there is a genetic statistical predisposition for a male to have extraordinarily high testosterone, but on a semiotic level he identifies as a woman. The meaning of "man" or "woman" is how it performs/functions.
Huh?
I'm generally considered well-read and knowledgeable, but I have no clue whatsoever what you just said. I've looked up the various words, but how you've put them together makes no sense to me. Could you elucidate, please?
Yours,
JohnBobMead
Yours,
John Robert Mead
he confuzzled me too...
And that's usually very hard to do.
Abigail Drew.
My phenomenological plane was grounded by the FAA
I think he just proved we don't exist. Oh dear...
~~~Ronni
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Heffalumps and Wuzzles....
are very confuzzled....as am I....
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
Post-modernism?
Well, no, it’s science.
Gender Trouble link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Butler#Gender_Trouble:_F...
Yeah, but can Judith Butler do this?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=mMq_zaP26kk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyvlRCyX2LQ
.
~Lux Interior
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
awesome
I saw an interview once in which Mick Jagger said Tina Turner taught him to dance. It was after a rehearsal for some show they did together in the early sixties. Damn she was good. Now that's feminism.
And she finally got rid of Ike, too. What a scumbag he was.
not as think as i smart i am
Judith Butler
An academic who writes in convoluted phrasings which are obscure in their meanings. She demonstrates an inability to express her ideas in language which the vast majority of readers would understand. The Wikipedia article is impenetrable and unable to be understood.
In other words, she's an ivory tower academic who cannot express her ideas in plain English, and 99+% of the populace would be unable to make heads or tales of what she writes. Thus, she is irrelevant to any reasoned discussion, because her ideas are too E.T.
Yours,
JohnBobMead
Yours,
John Robert Mead
'Jargon'
I studied as an academic, with my particular specialities being linguistics, German, French and literary creativity and structure. In other words, how language is constructed, how it develops, and, perhaps more importantly, how people play and create with it. A lot of what I read and wrote in my studies will sound very odd to an outside reader, because it uses very specific and tightly-constructed terminology. One of the biggest fields is called Intertextuality, which is basically the study of cross-references, cultural influences, and all the other things that link one 'text' to another. And I use the word 'text' because in technical use it can mean ANY form of communication beyond speaking to each other. It's complicated; see my story 'Viewpoints' for some examples.
On the other hand, there is jargon, which may or may not be B/S, and there is a hell of a lot of B/S in literary analysis writing. Now, I read the Butler link, and I understood it. I don't agree with her thesis, which is largely about all gender being in effect a social construct and effectively imaginary, but that's a different argument. There are science or academic books, and then there are popular science or their equivalent. The first categories have to be written in 'Ivory Tower' language, because the words used have very precise meanings.
Yeah, I understood the link too...
And I don't agree either. The original poster of the link, however, I think attempted to either extract parts of the actual book without keeping an integrity of thoughts, or tried writing like it and failed. Because I could not understand what they wrote.
Abigail Drew.
Pah... Butler... That link
Pah... Butler... That link you gave is even worse than her textes. I had to read something from her and I think her only motivation is arguing against common sense.
No wonder she's so popular with feminists... As long as she somehow proves that patriachy (most obscure term ever) supresses womenkind she'll be cheered at.
She's proven wrong by the pure existence of transgendered people which may be the reason why her brand of feminism has a problem with transgender. I mean who'd be stupid enough to be a transsexual if you could choose your gender? Because people like to suffer so much or why?
It is ridiculous and just a case of denying reality for reasons of ideology.
I wonder why she's so popular with university lecturers.
Beyogi
University lecturers
There is the story...and this time, it's from someone who heard the stupid woman say it: me.
"If I put this empty can on a table, it is litter, but if an artist puts it there as part of an installation, it is art"
"What if I put it there as part of an installation?"
"It would be litter, because you are not an artist"
Rubbish. Add that attitude to the mindset that adores making things complex for their own sake, and you are back at the age of arguments over numbers of pin-dancing angels. What I wrote above was an explanation of why academic work is written the way it is; it was not a statement that all work written like that is of any worth (or even contains any sense). To pick up on the ivory tower reference earlier, some people just like to seem clever.
Butler, of course, comes from the same class of mad political feminists as Greer and Bindel, and you may remember the latter declared that being a lesbian is a political decision, as well as alleging that GCS/SRS is something indulged in solely by men who want to masturbate in women's changing rooms.
With what, exactly, Julie? That's rather the point of the surgery....
No Offense, But...
This question sounds stupid and insulting to me. If it's from your sister-in-law, however, I guess it's just innocent (maybe) and uninformed. We can't expect everyone to know the most (or somewhat) up-to-date research on trans people.
There is a biological reason for being TS, like having brain sex opposite genital sex, so probably also for other forms of TG. This question sounds like a 1950s psychoanalytic guess at a cause for the existence of TG/TS people.
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
No.
This question has been asked for centuries. It has been disproved for several decades. A lot of ignorant people, especially bigots, like to pose that question and try to reinforce it with a few cases that fit their criteria.
Are you transgendered? Yes. Did you have an absentee father? Yes. Therefore, you are transgendered because of your absentee father.
This is a terrible argument. It'd be like me saying "There is a lot higher crime in Toronto and a lot more churches than [insert small town near you]. Therefore churches cause crime." When you put it like this, it's clearly an illogical argument isn't it?
Having a strong male role model has NOTHING to do with being transgendered anymore than the number of churches have to do with the high crime rate in a large city.
When we aren't aware of unsaid, external, factors to a situation two similar ideas might appear to correlate. I.e. A lack of a masculine environment might appear to cause feminine behaviours. However, what must be realised is that ALL factors have to be examined in detail. Sure you might have grown up in a predominantly non-masculine environment. Does that make you a girl? No. I know a man who was raised (since 6) by his older sisters. He grew up to be a successful lawyer, married, and had a wonderful son.
Unstable homes WILL effect who you grow up to be. Some might grow up to be drug addicts. Some might learn from their experiences an d pull themselves out of the gutter. But you must realise that it NEVER will affect your gender or sexual identity.
The idea that a missing father could cause a boy to believe he's a girl is laughable. Just as much as thinking two gay men raising a boy will turn him gay.
You seem confused. It's understandable. In such a situation you might be willing to listen to your sister-in-law's opinions on the matter. However, the internet is a wonderful creature. Try doing research on it and showing it to her. You'll find a lot of theories explaining transgenderism and a lot of facts debunking these myths about the "absentee father figure".
A lot of people like to put forth the argument that "all opinions are valid". But honestly, in this case your sister-in-law's opinion really isn't. It's offensive. It actually invalidates what transgenderism is. What little scientific knowledge there is on the subject pretty much points to a mess up in the womb. Not nurture. The "nurture theories" have been long outdated.