I am very sad to see that the UK supreme court is antitransgender and that that well known overpaid hack, JKRowling has funded this discriminatory finding that will set back transgender rights in the UK for a generation. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what transgender is about. Seeing as the current research suggests we are affected before birth should that have the same definition as cisgendered females. This is political with morons like Rowling not seeing the bigger picture. This is about the repression of fundamental human rights and makes a mockery of the Gender Reform Act and its certificate. First they came for the Jews....
It seems transgender rights are receding in the UK
A word from our sponsor:
Comments
A bad day here in the UK
I had believed, hoped even, that the courts here would take the "reasonable" approach and not follow the lead of the human rights travesties happening in the US.
I was wrong. We have just lurched back fifty years. The courts have decreed that I am not a woman.
I am sorry, but this is just too much. Now we rely on parliament to modify the anti discrimination law to take into account what it was supposed to do.
Sadly, I have absolutely no trust in the idiots on either side of the House of Commons to find their way out of a paper bag, let alone allow me to use a ladies loo.
I'm with you, Ang. It would have been better if those terrible sub Enid Blyton Wizard books had never been published. Then the TERFs would be a seen as a vindictive, sad bunch of bullies, rather than a wealthy, vindictive, sad bunch of bullies.
I guess that our sister's in the US won't think it that much, compared to the crimes being carried out there, but here, it feels like a betrayal by the courts.
I just don't know how to carry on.
Lucy xxx
"Lately it occurs to me..
what a long strange trip its been."
A loss for us anywhere . . .
. . . is a loss for us everywhere. We are all connected, and some of the links are easy to trace. The Cass Report will almost certainly be cited by our Supreme Court when it denies transgender rights in a case involving bans on puberty blockers. And that decision, when it comes out, will no doubt be cited by courts in other countries. Between Rowling and Musk, we have two of the world’s richest people, hell bent — literally — on persecuting one of the world’s most marginalized groups. Sad days.
— Emma
Emma Nailed It
Why the transgender hate has many reasons. The main ones are two very wealthy people are using their money and their power to disenfranchise transgender from the human equation. Musk I know why. His former wife left him for a transgender female. One of his sons is transgender and actually a very pretty young lady. Musk tried to change both, his money and his power didn't fix either so he's using Trump to pass executive laws against anything and everything trans.
I wish I could make everyone have faith, hope, and understanding. No one chooses to be transgender. It's a blessing along with life. I forget which month of development it happens. A girl designed brain is developed inside a more or less male body and or a male designed brain is developed inside a more or less female body. Not much of a debate there are differences in the way women think and the way men think just as the physical body is different. Women are caring and nurturing and men want to drink, pound their chest, growl to prove they are top predator.
Give it some thought. We have two men at the top of our nation proving just how biased and ignorant men can be. Destroying the smallest most vulnerable, most defenseless class of the human race is really a male power trip.
Hugs Emma, this too will pass
Barbie
God and me are going to have discussion before I come back again. Like to know what I'm facing in my next life cycle.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Playing Leapfrog
We have just had a new right-wing state government elected in Queensland and one of the first things they have done is to suspend the use of puberty blockers for teenagers wishing to transition. They are citing those dubious 'findings' of the Cass report and promising an 'investigation' into the supposed adverse effects of those medications...and who have they appointed as the chairperson of the investigating panel but a known critic of transgender treatments.
To its credit our federal government is resisting moves to ban the blockers, but we have a federal election in three weeks and should the opposition win then we will probably see further restrictions on treatments available to TG kids.
I don't see how this will benefit cisgendered women.
It is an act of spitefulness, persecution of a minority by rich, cognitively challenged morons, who have continued to bash the little (wo)man. It seems the establishment in many countries is hell-bent on eradicating transgender people because they like to point the finger and blame us for everything THEY do wrong. One day they will be proved wrong but it will probably take a generation or two.
Angharad
Oppression Rankings
Part of that (rather untalented) billionaire author's spite is born of the demand, especially in the UK, coming from affluent, educated, white cis women that they be seen as the most oppressed people on the planet. They complain that TDoR is cultural appropriation by trans people in this country because most of the deaths occur abroad. At the same time, they equate themselves with women forced to use menstruation huts.
With Cissy Spacex, he's just an absolute entitled arsehole with a 'moral age' of about six.
The previous 'Equalities Minister' literally boasted that she had loaded the 'levers of power' with transphobes; this is just another result. The Supreme Court hearing, like the Cass, Sullivan and Levy (IIRC) reviews, is notable in that it was a hearing concerning the rights of trans people in which trans people were specifically excluded.
The Health Minister, the bulk of whose political income comes from private health companies who want the NHS destroyed so that they can turn it into the sort of insurance-based shitshow that passes for healthcare ib the USA. He is also a gay man AND a fundamentalist evangelical, and his internalised homophobia is evident. In my opinion, he is just lashing out at another group for church cred. The SC verdict is perverse because of the following:
The European Court of Human Rights demanded that the UK allow rights to trans people.
The UK enacted the Gender Recognition Act 2004 in response
The resulting Gender Recognition Certificate says that an acquired sex is 'for all purposes'
The Equality Act 2010 was drafted to consolidate equality law, and AS THE SC SAID, draws on previous law., including the GRA 2004.
The SC are therefore factually wrong in their claim that all equality law prior to EA 2010 was based on 'biological sex'.
I am intersex: what, therefore is my biological sex?
Prior to our own PB ban, we had, nationally, three suicides of trans kids over two years. Since the ban, there have been at least sixteen. No, you won't find that in the press.
There are two things that need to be done. The first is to take this back to the ECHR. The second.... Well. Biological sex, you say? I think it;s about time trans men, especially those who have had phalloplasty, start using these so-called 'single sex spaces', such as communal changing rooms. After all, according to the bigots, they are women. If they are excluded, then that must be illegal discrimination based on both sex and gender reassignment (s13 EA 2010 for direct discrimination, s19 for indirect).
We are about to have local elections. I normally ignore the Nazis ('Reform') tellers when I pass them, give a mildly rude response to the wannabe Nazis (Tories) if they speak to me, nod to Labour, smile at Lib Dems and have a chat with Greens,
I suspect I will have some strong words with any Labour teller or canvasser. I have voted for them all my adult life, but never again.
Seems I missed a bit
In respect of trans men:
Trans women will be forced into men's spaces.
Trans men will be barred from men's spaces---AND women's spaces. Because reasons.
Because we aren't people...
JKR and her coterie are cackling all the way to their "celebrations" of TERF VE day.
Never have I felt such despair. Never have I felt that society really doesn't give a damn. And that is despite being trans for over half a century.
I really don't get it.
Lucy xx
"Lately it occurs to me..
what a long strange trip its been."
Back to the same old question
This ruling identifies women as those born biological female. Same old question, what determines biological male or female? People don't understand that sex is a broad spectrum, there are women with two x chromosomes and a y chromosome but they are indeed female. Biology is not simple and to have government determine what we are is idiotic. So I say, I DON"T CARE WHAT THEY CALL ME, I"M A HUMAN BEING!
Love to you all, Emily
re: definition of woman - summary of impact
As I read it, it is for certain sections of the Equalities act, not for everything. It all boils down to bad wording. There are options such as a bill to reinstate the rights - but I don't see that happening. Labour and Conservatives seem very happy with the result.
Things like sport aren't a surprise. Certain medical things like Pregnancy being based on biological sex. Sure.
There has been no change for things like marriage. I am a woman in the eyes of the law for that.
But the biggest is "protected spaces". Toilets and hospital. Yet I used female facilites without issue before the Equalities Act. Nobody is going to do a chromosome test when I go to a public toilet. How many butch lesbians are going to get called out as being a transwoman in a female protected space?
A summary of impact(of transwomen - I'm sure there is a transman list but not found). This can be found in more detail at
https://www.reddit.com/r/trans/comments/1k0ht1v/uk_supreme_c...
What does this mean in practice?
Protections women have that trans women may not (depending on context):
Single-sex spaces:
Services (like domestic violence shelters, changing rooms, or hospital wards) can lawfully exclude trans women if it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim — such as ensuring privacy, safety, or dignity for biological women.
2. Positive action initiatives:
Some programs aimed specifically at women (such as leadership schemes, scholarships, or women-only shortlists in politics) may now lawfully limit participation to biological females, excluding trans women.
3. Sex-based rights in law:
This includes data collection, health policies (like cervical or prostate screenings), and employment rights that relate specifically to biological sex.
4. Protections related to sex discrimination:
If an issue arises that is directly linked to biological sex (like pregnancy, menopause, or period-related needs), these are not applicable to trans women, and protections would apply only to biological women.
Keeping My Head Down
I live in a city where I feel relatively safe, and seem to be of a size that "passing" does not seem to be an issue. Many people are fearful of Trump/Musk Nazis. So the trans issue does not seem to be a primary focus.
Gwen
Here we go again
The clock has just gone back to before 2004 (GRA). I know that we often follow where USA goes, but I didn't expect it to be so far and so fast, I thought we were at least a bit more tolerant and accepting.
I blame two things for this step back. Demanding access to women's competitive sports is one, and I know not everyone here agrees with me on that but it made us into the "bad guys", depriving "real women" of their hard won places in teams etc - and I agree that we should not do that.
The other thing is a group of individual cases such as a certain rapist putting on a wig and skirt and declaring himself a woman to gain access to a woman's prison. If I were ever locked up would I want to share a cell with this person? No, a rapist is a rapist and I wouldn't feel safe with them so why should any other woman be OK with it.
If we are to be required to "out" ourselves by wanting a pee in a pub or our place of employment, or being admitted to hospital then why not require us to be clearly identified - perhaps a tattoo or badge. I believe that the star of David was effective in the past...
I do wonder what the point of the GRA really was now that it has been effectively undone. Our so-called Supreme Court seems little different to the USA. Even my F marker in my passport seems to be at risk if we are to be legally Male, and my passport has said F since about 1990 so the GRA didn't give me the right to it.
The Tory pols love this, they've been openly anti trans for a few years now. Strangely enough, the non-white Tory pols are the worst which I've always found odd. Surely they will have some personal experience of bigotry and discrimination in their lives? Unfortunately that seems not to count for much, and they feel free to discriminate against us without any sense of hypocrisy.
So, no pubs or restaurants or hospital treatment or days out or trying on clothes in a shop or... or... I think I've just found the hill that I am prepared to die on. I will NOT use men's toilets etc.
You and me both, Alison
I 100% agree with all that you have said here Alison. Because I live in a small village, and have done so since before my transition, everyone knows that I am trans.
Until the two unfortunate issues you mention, I can honestly say I received nothing but either support or, at worst, indifference. I am sure that people talked about me behind my back, but they were all nice to my face.
Both of the issues you described have changed the game and made some situations more uncomfortable. Not amongst my friends, but amongst those who were indifferent . Mind you, the Brexit Vote did the same thing for my friend of Asian heritage, who runs a nearby small shop. She was told to "pack her bags" by several people who thought that Brexit would mean forcible repatriation to British born Asians.
The long term consequences of this legal case can only be guessed at, but my guess is that we can all expect insults and threats as we go about our daily business, because, as the respected Judges decreed, we are not "real women".
I read today that the British Transport Police have now said that, if it was to be required, a trans woman should be strip searched by a male officer. I'm pretty sure that their Honours the Supreme Court didn't see that one coming.
So, we draw a line ( nope, I'm not putting a foot inside a male lavatory, whatever the law says. My judgement is that that would make me a target for an attack, and if I must I will argue that in court) we hold it, and we endure. And in the end we will get back the respect of the "reasonable" people in the middle ground.
Lucy xx
"Lately it occurs to me..
what a long strange trip its been."
Transport police
Yes, I heard that, and it was truly shocking. I'm not a user of public transport, but I certainly won't be in the future even though I am now eligible for a bus pass.
However did such a person become the chair of the "Equality and Human Rights Commission"? Don't we count? Equality and Human Rights for everyone ELSE but not us. Our rights seem to be almost non-existent now, I'm afraid some things are going back to well before GRA days, and I am genuinely concerned for the gender marker on my passport and driving license as the judge said "MALE". What a crock...
Transgender rights in Canada
Transgender rights had been steadily improving up until the nation wide conversion therapy ban in January 2022. After that the hate groups that had been successfully targeting the laws and rights in the U.S. started to seriously campaign in Canada. For two or three years or so it was starting to look like Canada was going to follow the U.S. in regards to how they treat transgendered people. I've just realized that I've seen nothing on this issue for a while now.
In eleven days Canada will be electing a new prime minister.
It's a very critical election because one of the likely winners is very Trump like, only smarter. He went to cheer on the Truckers who paralyzed downtown Ottawa (the Canadian capital) for ages. Not quite as bad as the Jan. 6 U.S. capital attack but you get the idea.
The other understands economics so well that he used to be a governor of the Bank of Canada and of the Bank of England. He organized a meeting with a few other country leaders, where they started buying U.S. government bonds. And when Trump raised the tarrifs these countries started to slowly sell the bonds, greatly depressing their value and thus putting pressure on the U.S. government.
I think Canada is facing two very different futures depending on which one wins. (Just like the U.S. did in their last election.) And how trans friendly Canada remains depends on who wins.
It seems the TERFS won
The person who will be putting the meat on the bones of the judgement is a fanatical anti-trans person. I wonder that seeing as I get nothing from the state apart from a pension that I have paid for whether I can get an exemption from income tax. It shows the effect rightwing media have on a rather unintelligent population in demonising a tiny minority.
Angharad
However did it happen
that "our side" didn't get a say in this case? Doesn't sound like British Justice to me.
I had some surgery a couple of years ago, not gender related, but there was no issue whatsoever about me being on a female ward. If they had tried to put me in a male ward I would have been out of there without the surgery.
I'm not sure where we go from here. Who does one appeal a so-called "Supreme Court" judgement to? And how can any judgement be handed down without reference to any of those affected by it?
How did it happen?
Quite easily, rather like the USA's descent into fascism.
First, a group of US christofascists, unhappy at losing the marriage equality battle, looked for a wedge issue. The American Family Values Convention (IIRC) said "the quickest way to untangle the alphabet soup is to pick on the weakest letter, the T". They were backed up by other far right US groups such as the Heritage Foundation and the Alliance Defending Freedom. That was the original money pot. They made it clear they would come after all other human rights as soon as they had screwed ours.
They then found an eager audience in a certain type of white, cis, educated and affluent UK woman who resent not being seen as the most oppressed people on the planet. Their opportunity came with the initial review of the Gender Recognition Act. they were aided in the UK by our own far right.
The Tory Equalities Minister in the last government, Kemi Badenoch, is a horrendous transphobe., and set about dismantling trans rights. She boasted that she had installed other transphobes at 'the levers of power' to ensure trans rights were abolished. One of them is the Chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, Kishwer Falkner. She has stacked the EHRC with transphobes.
In parallel with that are two extremely wealthy woman bigots, Maya Forstater of 'Sex Matters' and That Derivative Wizard Woman. There is also a false front 'LGB Alliance', based in 55 Tufton St, which is an address that could better be called 'Nazis R Us'.
Three reviews into trans healthcare are being overseen by Wes Streeting, the health minister, who is another religious fundamentalist who hates himself for being gay. The Cass review covered children, and Cass went to Florida to get advice on trans inclusion
No trans people were consulted as they would be 'biased'
The Sullivan review on recording sex was performed by the chair of the board of trustees for---Sex Natters
No trans people were consulted because Sullivan is an overt transphobe.
There is an upcoming review on adult trans healthcare 'Levy/?
I anticipate more of the same.
The lead judge in the Supreme Court was Lord Hodge, who, to no surprise at all, is another religious fundamentalist who has previously expressed severe prejudice against LGBT+ people.
No trans people were allowed in that hearing, but Sex Matters was.
There are rumours that the attack on our rights is being driven by The Mango Mafioso as a requirement for a UK-US trade deal, along with the demand we accept rotting chicken washed in chlorine.
We have now had a government minister stating that the law on trans rights needs sorting beacuse "The Tories were too soft on trans people"
But how can this be called "justice"
when one side of the dispute was totally denied representation? The UK doesn't traditionally operate kangaroo courts where there is only prosecution and no defence allowed. That's the preserve of Russia and Gulf states..
Biological Sex??
Where does this ruling leave the inter-sexed?
Researchers here in Australia have identified an inter-sexed whale migrating off the coast, so Nature doesn't observe the court ruling, and, no, that is not an April Fool's Day joke.
Intersex
Speaking as someone who is....
The legal position here is that there are only two sexes. The bigot position is that all intersex people are either male or female, with a 'disorder'. They even put up lists of VSCs (variations in sex characteristics: our preferred term) where they list 'male DSDs' and female ones. Oddly (no, not really 'oddly') the division varies depending on which TERF has written it, and on which intersex person they are currently lovebombing to show how much intersex people hate Teh Transez. There is also the core part of their religion, that sex is binary and immutable, and infallibly observed at birth
They can't define a woman in any way that excludes all trans feminine people and no cis women, for example. Two of their favourite mantras are "Got a Y, you're a guy" and "A woman is an adult human female designed to produce large gametes"
The first is drivel, because there are a whole range of 46XY conditions where their "guy" has given birth, after conceiving the old fashioned way, and at least one VSC (De La Chappelle) where you get a 46XX male. Then there's mosaicism...
Germaine Greer, a woman who declared, ecstatically, that her ideal sexual partner would be a boy just about to enter puberty*, wrote that "A failed man is not a woman.
Thus, by their definitions:
A woman born without ovaries or a uterus is a man--EXCEPT that there is a magic woo that makes her a woman, because reasons.
Someone who has had a hysterectomy (like me) is still a woman. Except for me.
Someone who has Complete Androgen Insensitivity (CAIS) is a man, except when they are lovebombing her.
A woman who has 46XY chromosomes and complete female internals, and is a grandmother, and her daughter with the same VSC, are both men. Or not, depending on TERF/lovebombing, etc.
The April Ashley divorce case, Corbett V Corbett, also listed the VSCs that could mean a birth cert was mistakenly sexed and could be legally corrected.
By their twisted excuse for logic, a woman born looking female, with a vagina etc, who is brought up as a girl, feels herself to be a girl, but has CAIS, is a man.
* There's a name for people like Greer. I'll look it up on a PDF file I keep.