I am seriously considering resigning as a member of British Cycling after they decided to stop transwomen from competing in elite women's bike races.
This has all blown up after Emily Bridges transitioned, as a man she broke the national junior 25 mile record and is considered to have an unfair advantage over biological females. So they have suspended the policy on transgender cyclists.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/apr/08/british-cyclin...
Comments
Simply My Own Opinion
What I offer are my feelings on the subject. I think that in sports age has a lot to do with it. If one is pre-pubescent when they transition and are never exposed to a body chemistry that is thick with Testosterone, perhaps they will develop in a more feminine way? I was 57 when I started taking Estradial .1. At that time, I did not know there was a genetic element in the mix. As it turns out, I am XXY and a bunch of stuff. I'm not a physical person but believe that I am stronger than a woman my size. I do not think that men and women are of equal strength.
As to the English Transgender Cyclist, I think that he has only been out for about two years. Perhaps he is still stronger than other women? Is she pre op? Is that fair? From 5000 miles away, I can not make a good judgement.
Blame
The UCI for their decision. It was they who put the block on Emilies participation last eeek stating they needed more time to evaluate her despite her meeting the testosterone levels that they themselves have set. BC are covering their backs, I’m not happy about it but the wider picture is that BC are responsible for a lot more than one rider, they haven’t abandoned her or other trans athletes.
Positive discrimination is still discrimination, somebody will lose out at some point. BC has too much to lose by going against the UCI, we are a fairly big cog in international cycling these days, forty years ago that wasn’t the case and the UCI would have been told to take a walk. But that was then, this is now, many lives and careers are at stake if BC was sanctioned,
The decision has had divided opinion amongst cyclists, we are in the end just a subset of the population. That said we are mostly quite laid back, trans cyclists have historically had god support and acceptance.
Madeline Anafrid Bell
I believe she is pre-op. It
I believe she is pre-op. It is a difficult subject. As much as "Woke" culture likes to push that we are all equal, and has movies with small females beating large males in fights etc. Males generally are stronger than females of the same physical size. Even after hormones are taken into account. Someone who has gone through male puberty will still have a slight advantage.
Wider hips give you a slight disadvantage when running for example. The main problem is not competing, it's winning. The looser will always say "you only won because.."
Perhaps there should be a trans section? Or trans woman compete with women, but when/if they win , they win the trans category ?
Do trans men ever compete with men?
Leeanna
Athleticism
Even if a former junior's champion, have they evaluated what she is capable NOW.
If she is within a standard deviation or two of what an elite athletic women of her size can do then I don't think it should be an issue.
Two years on hormones will greatly reduce muscle mass, no question.
Edit:
So I did a Google and found a story on outsports.com
Post hormone she had finished 43rd in a field of 45 men as she had been deemed not to have a low enough testosterone level I guess so she had to compete against men.
She is not in the top ranks of men by any means even as of a year ago.
Best guess she is probably a middle of the pack female at this point.
Frankly I have to differ with you Ang.
Sorry but! -
In as much as the Paralympics association has laboured long and hard to bring about their own Paralympics games with all the nuanced fine differentials between various disabilities such as various degrees of amputations, blindness, downs syndrome and other cognitive disabilities; dwarfism etc, etc. etc. I can't for the life of me see why the transgendered community cannot approach the Paralympics authorities and somehow create a niche (Would that be the right word?) set of competitions designed to accommodate the wishes or needs of the trans community.
After all, the Paralympics authority is constantly having to update and adjust the various athletic activities to accommodate changes and developments in their various sports, so why, pray, cannot the trans community not do likewise. They could easily create sectional grades to accommodate the various gender and developmental circumstances.
I watched the Pensylvania state championships and it was cruel to see six 'Cis' girls left yards behind by two taller, more muscled and obviously skeletal male bodied individuals sweep the board, especially when those victories earn college scholarships. It was painful to see genuinely angry and disappointed girls seeing themselves robbed of chances to go to college.
Sorry Ang, I have to side with the women here. Let there be transgender games, just as there are, for example, Invicta games. Then; when the equation is worth it, and the field large enough; stitch the transgender games onto the Paralympics.
Such an identifiable grouping would also give the transgendered community both viability and recognition in a real sense.
Provided the divisions and classifications are fair, and competitors can see them as fair, then the medals have value and legitimacy.
Beverly.
Thanks for that Beverley
This is in line with the point I was trying to make a few weeks ago. It's not a matter of "us" competing with cis women, it's _winning_ because if one of us wins, then a cis woman has lost something important, whether that's a scholarship or an Olympic gold medal. This isn't fair on us, but allowing it isn't fair on cis women. There is no answer that is fair on everyone, and a trans woman winning a sports event will _never_ be seen as fair in the perception of pretty much everyone. This is a battle which I don't see as being anything we can possibly win as far as PR is concerned. I want to be accepted and welcomed, not resented.
I agree with you Alison.
This whole issue is giving the transgender community a lot of bad press amongst women and girls have a right to be resentful when they see career opportunities being lost to obviously stronger transgendered individuals.
The last thing we in the trans community need is more enemies. And stealing women's opportunities to further their ambitions by competing on an UNLEVEL playing field is perhaps one of the fastest ways for trans-people to antagonise 50% of the world's population.
We need transgendered games operating under the paralympic umbrella.
It's no good harping on about transgenderism not being a disability and therefore not eligible to be sheltered under the paralympic organisation. The reality is that gaining enemies in the women;s camp loses us support and thus disables our cause.
Unlevel playing field
Funny, when I see all this arguing back and forth about this I had this visualization of Serena Williams and her amazing bulging muscles.
So how far do we do this division even among cis-gendered women then, by race, we measure every women for their testosterone levels so only women with the same levels get to compete with each other?
Where should this end where being trans means we have to take that into consideration for any other human endeavor besides physical differences?
Men have better spatial perception abilities in general so I guess a transwomen may out-compete other women in certain skills that demand spatial perception then.
Should transwomen always have to walk on eggshells for 'fairness' sakes?
I have slightly wider shoulders than average at a guess, does that mean I need to not play in a women's bowling league?
But there are a lot of women who have as wide a shoulders that I do so what makes me so special?
This goes on and on and to give such a blanket statement is totally ridiculous.
It doesn't seem ridiculous
It doesn't seem ridiculous to those girls who had to watch their life's endeavours and hopes destroyed. If you ask the Paralympic committees they will tell you that they definitely have many nuanced and fine-line divisions within their rules concerning degrees of disability and they do employ tests to determine each individual's degree of disability. Especially when a competitor is deemed 'borderline'. They will be the first to admit that sometimes their rules can be abused but by and large, their endeavours work sufficiently well to give their competition standards merit. There is nothing ridiculous about the paralympic games.
What you need to understand
What you need to understand is there has been a lot of crap whipped up by TERF's and right wing press about "self identification" in the UK. Suff about a big guy with a beard saying "I identify as female" and using female toilets and changing rooms.
However wrong, this is how this will be seen. They will think that any average male athlete can say "I'm a trans women" and take first place in women's sport. TERF's would have a field day.
As it's been said, it's a problem if they win, not if they come middle or bottom.
"measure every women for their testosterone " I think they do that in the Olympic games. The Soviets used male hormones to enhance their female athletes.
" does that mean I need to not play in a women's bowling league?" I'm not sure how much strength plays a part in bowling, but if you were competing in the top leagues , someone would be sure to bring up your past.
As Bev said. There is a risk of alienating women that are supportive and the ones that didn't really care. These issues can make them hostile toward trans women. It can play straight into the hands of TERF's and right wing anti-trans groups.
It is a pity she can't race with the women though, but the world's not ready yet.
Leeanna
The Focus Is On Sports
Where strength, stamina and endurance are the factors taken into account, e.g. track and field, swimming, cycling.
There are plenty of sports where the focus is on skills suited equally well to women and TG women. It is impossible to enumerate these but include equestrian sports, lawn bowls, darts (if women ever play darts!), snooker/billiards, synchronised swimming, diving and many others where hand/eye co-ordination and accuracy are the prime requisites. Also, dare I say, a lot of the paralympian sports where physical differences have been minimised by disability.
I agree that women are disadvantaged in most physically oriented sports and legislation should be a prime factor in determining how competition is managed but we should be changing the narrative to sports where we can all operate on the proverbial level playing field.
Shoe size
People think I'm being silly, But consider for a moment. The social organization that went into creating sports leagues divided along arbitrary genetic sexual lines have root in the averages morphology of the genetic sexual expression. Something that has little to no predictive value for relative performance. On average the morphology we call male is physically larger than the one we call female. But within each of these divisions we see a huge range of performance at sports tasks.
So instead of getting all bent out of shape over sports league divisions based on average genetic morphology, lets re-organize them around something that actually does have actual relative performance value. Like shoe size.
Rather than get all contentious about archaic exclusionary and patriarchal sports policies set by traditions from the stone ages, lets just change the rules and create sports leagues divided by shoe size, or body mass or something that can predict relative performance.
Just saying.
Your friend
Crash