There seems to be a misconception that some Dr. Seuss books have been banned and that the US Government is responsible.
THIS IS NOT TRUE.
The books are not banned and it has nothing to do with the US Government despite attempts to make it appear so by some so-called conservative politicians.
The books in question are still available but the family company that controls the publishing has decided that in today's society some of the characterisations may appear racist and so they have decided not to sell any more of those particular books.
That is the beginning and the end of the matter. There is no "cancel culture" involved and nobody is abrogating the First Amendment of the American Constitution.
For clarification I am not an American citizen but sometimes it needs an outsider to remind you what your Constitution actually says. Politicians tell lies for a living, doesn't matter where they come from.
Comments
yes but
Stores like Amazon ARE refusing to sell these books and ebay is even refusing to list sellers. So definite censorship.
Yes But
That is censorship by commercial organisations, not by government. Place the blame where it belongs.
Conspiracy between Amazon and Government!!!
That is what half of my "right" friends said about it - and they believe it. Most of those appeared to be perfectly normal people 5 years ago.
Words fail to describe how scared I feel about that...
WHO wields control?
The publishers are the organization founded and run by his heirs. It is their SOLE prerogative to determine what of his large library of books can be printed AND sold. If someone tried to force them to cease publishing, that WOULD be censorship.
The more important thing to consider as that Geisel grew as a person in his writing career. Several of his later books did tackle racism and the environment. The books being removed are much older, and reflect the culture at the time that barely acknowledged the stereotypes in question. I daresay that Geisel himself would be in agreement with the decision to remove them from THEIR catalog.
Love, Andrea Lena
See, I disagree. I think
See, I disagree. I think that all books have value, and reflect the cultural identities of the time. Even books with little to no redeeming value, such as 'Mein Kampf' and 'The Communist Manifesto' have value to be read for an understanding of what went on, as well as a warning. I think Geisel himself would understand that, and have kept his older works available for publishing. Note that I said _available_, not trying to force them to be published. Withdrawing works from the public is the reason that copyright needs to revert back to the original stance - noone should have the right to unilaterally remove knowledge.
This is one of my biggest beefs with the whole 'anti-racism' bigotry (bigot - someone who doesn't think as you do). It's just another example of people refusing to understand history through the eyes of of people _at the time_. I've been fighting with that since college, when even my History of Animation class unilaterally denigrated cartoons from the 30's through 50's containing any characters obviously of any stereotype. They didn't point out useful information, such as how the animation was done, what studies used it, how it related to the society of the times.. nothing. Just a straight out "This is horrible." (in more words than that). (This from a teacher that behaved as a caricature of his own. Ask in PM and I'll explain.)
Again - just because "Modern" people wouldn't approve of the content, it doesn't make the book suddenly horrible. You could as easily turn that around and demand that all modern music be removed from the air because it would offend the sensibilities of Victorians.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
there was another factor
these books are also some of the lowest selling of the catalog. part of the reason for their evaluation for being pulled from publication.
Teresa L.
There's a difference between
There's a difference between a printer/publisher pulling because of low sales, and the _estate_ of an author pulling from publication. One is due to economic reasons. The other is not. Leaving it available to be licensed for publication doesn't cost an estate anything.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
More like
They are preventing people from trying to sell the books for ridiculous amounts.
Now that is strange
@ areader: I just found (10 minutes ago) older copies of the 6 books that are being discontinued for sale on Amazon and on ebay. Are you in Russia or something?
remember, at least here in the USA
Censorship is prohibited ONLY for the government. a business, or person, can refuse to host a group, event etc for their view, no matter what they are: political, religious, etc
Teresa L.
that depends on the state,
that depends on the state, and in many states, it's been fought out that an individual or business doesn't have a right to deny service to a group. Me personally? If it's your business (sole proprietorship), you should be allowed to do whatever you want. If it's a corporation, then you lose that right.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
They can't be on Amazon
because they are no longer available from the publisher. I have tried to remember what was in those books but it has been sixty plus years since my youngest sibling had them and longer since I read them myself, if I did. I do remember my dad reading Little Black Sambo to us and shudder at the thought of it today so I can see why the need to look at older children's books has arisen.
Interesting thing about "Little Black Sambo"
The African/Americans are the ones objecting to "Little Black Sambo" and Sambo in the story is East Indian. The tigers in the story are clearly Bengal tigers... Indian tigers, not African.
;o)
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
Little Black Sambo was just a
Little Black Sambo was just a book about a clever kid who fooled a danger into taking itself out.
The race had absolutely nothing to do with it other than to give it a placement for tigers and jungle.
That'd be like getting upset that Tarzan was in Africa/India, just because that's where the jungle and elephants were. (I don't remember where it was based, it's been a long time since I read the original book)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Oh the Irony
The real irony of this whole fake controversy surrounding this fraudulent issue is that the folks complaining about Dr Suess being "censored" are the same types of (if not the same exact) people who used to try to get The Lorax and The Butter Battle Book pulled from school libraries for their subversive environmental and anti-war sentiments. But a publisher voluntarily withdrawing a book from the market? They have no RIGHT to deprive of us of our little images of stereotypical bone-thru-the-nose Africans and buck teethed Fu Manchu bearded Chinese (things I don't think Geisel was doing because he thought people in these places all looked like this or were inferior, it was more a form of shorthand common to cartoonists of the time, to telegraph instantly that: yes, this is Italy... see the super-mario moustached organ grinder with the monkey?)....
The people raising the alarm about this "liberal assault on free speech" aren't really against Cancel Culture in principal; Not when THEY get to be the ones doing the cancelling. Like when they're protecting the youth of America from the danger posed by gay-coded characters in Disney films; or those insidious books that are causing this pandemic of "Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria" that's sweeping our nation- like LUNA and I AM JAZZ. Oh well; I guess snowflakes gotta snowflake...
~hugs, Veronica
What borders on pure insanity?
Canada and Mexico.
.
Perfect!
Again you clearly articulate reality. Keep things real, no need to wander from facts.
Donna
Um, what?
Laika clearly articulating reality?
You do know that she's a mermaid, don't you?
It's another reason to -keep-
It's another reason to -keep- works like that out there.
Caricatures and stereotypes are a short-hand that have been around for a very long time. They're easily recognized exaggerations that allow quick works. This is especially prevalent in propaganda ( "Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips" being one of the easiest ones to bring up). Look at the round symbol with a chimney and fuse. Instantly recognizable as a 'bomb', right? When was the last time someone made them that way? Well over a century ago - but it's still instantly recognizable across a large number of cultures.
The key is not banning them, or denigrating them, but rather understanding _why_ they were used.
If you want socially inappropriate books now, just look at Pogo. I _love_ Walt Kelly, and I re-read my Pogo books quite often. They're heavily stereotyped (geographically, racially, ethnically, and nationally), inappropriate, and politically offensive by "today's standards" - but the humour still shines through.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
I love Pogo
I still sing the Pogo Christmas Carols .
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
Glacier-like
There-All-Along Rapidly DEPLOYED Transgender Phobia
Love, Andrea Lena
who started the cancel culture?
I remember Jane Fonda and the smothers brothers being canceled. My dad is a disabled vietnam vet and neither were welcome on our tvs as a child. The idea of people not wanting to do business or follow those that push views abhorrent to them is not in any way new. As authors we all have the right to control our own IPs. The Suess family is perfectly within their rights and showing good sense in maintaining their own assets. They rightly see that they have a role in maintaining the legacy left to them.
The Lorax
It might have been a generation ago that conservatives wanted to
bancancel Dr. Seuss's "The Lorax".Atrios tells us not to feed the trolls. Just point and laugh when someone is obsessed about cancelling Dr. Seuss and Mr. Potatohead's dick. https://www.eschatonblog.com/2021/03/the-only-winning-move-i... . He has said other things about the "cancel culture".
Whose cancel culture? Fox News just throws out noise to obstruct real issue. https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/07/opinions/gop-cancel-culture-o...
-- Daphne Xu (a page of contents)
That's MISTER Potato Head to you, Bub!
A week ago I had a whole blog outlined in my head about the controversy surrounding Hasbro's rebranding of the Toy Formerly Known As Mr. Potato Head into a genderless plastic potato; and the loss of this iconic male role model, who has inspired whole generations of boys to proclaim: "When I grow up I wanna be a POTATO!!!" But for whatever reason I never got around to writing it...
But I will say that anyone who insists a potato is intrinsically male
has no business lecturing transgender people about biology.
~hugs, Veronica
What borders on pure insanity?
Canada and Mexico.
.
You Say Potato -- I Say PA - tato
I'm amazed that a forum made up largely of writers would have any doubt about a writer's RIGHT to withdraw her work. Dr. Seuss' publishers stand in his shoes. What they decide to do with those books is supposedly what he would have decided. Having based my life on "The Sneeches" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_V6knB0lA4 I'm fairly certain Dr. Seuss would want his books to reflect current social mores.
I tried to stand in Dr. Seuss' shoes once. It's a lot harder than it would seem.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Yes, writing like Dr. Seuss is harder than it looks
But drawing like him is IMPOSSIBLE. At least for me, and I've been trying since I was 7. His linework is every bit as sublime as those exquisite early works by Picasso, with an aspect that is less about technique or anything that can be learned than just a pure expression of the artist's personality. A wonderfully whimsically wacky dude with a whole alien universe in his head, whose art is the equal of any of those works hanging in the Louvre. And he's definitely the world's greatest architect and design engineer, ever; even if his buildings + vehicles tend to be a bit on the dangerous side...
So I am sad to see some of my favorite titles---which were so influential in shaping (or misshaping) my imagination as a kid---disappear, but ultimately it's not my decision; just like anyone pulling their stories from this site is their bizness + no one else's. Copyright holders aren't the creators but in Seuss's case he entrusted them with his legacy, it's their call.
And self-cancellation stands on firmer ethical grounds than trying to silence someone else's voice; (unless that voice shouts fire in a crowded theater or "Proud Boys and weird guys with horns,ATTACK THE CAPITOL! Fly my pretties... FLY!!!"), which left and right seem equally prone to do when they feel they have and imperative to protect us from the menace of their choice.
~hugs, Veronica
.
And it's funny how Josh Hawley was all in favor of those brave Christian bakers standing their ground against immoral gay wedding cakes and the right of American business owners NOT to do business with someone... until his own book deal got pulled for very similar reasons. Then it was a heinous crime and crisis of Constitutional rights somehow, because it was HIM getting cancelled. The Goddess of Irony strikes again.
What borders on pure insanity?
Canada and Mexico.
.
Except that Dr. Seuss, the
Except that Dr. Seuss, the writer, had no say in the matter. It was the political spinmeisters his heirs are listening to that made the decision. I see it as a perversion of the original concept of Copyright - that the author should receive a return for his work, but that the work _must_ go to the public for the public good. That's why it was 17 years, same as patents. Long enough to make your money, but short enough that those who couldn't afford your work originally would eventually get to see it.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Piracy
Of course, if you really want to read the books you can download pirated copies from various sites on the internet. These pirate copies will probably continue to be available for millennia, despite what the publisher might prefer.
I would be very surprised if the publicity surrounding the withdrawal of these books from publication hasn't resulted in a surge of downloads over the last few days.
Here's How This "Controversy" Started
Dr. Seuss's (Ted Geisel's) birthday is March 2. Every year, it's been celebrated by reading children's books to, um... children. This year, it was suggested that it doesn't have to be JUST Dr. Seuss books. You're allowed to read other books, too! As Dr. Jill Biden was one of those suggesting this, the great Right Wing Outrage Machine saw the opportunity to blow it completely out of proportion.
As usual, one thing leads to another, Fox News tried to make a field day out of it, and the publisher got to thinking that a few of the titles are pretty outdated by current standards, anyway, and a bit embarrassing if you think about it. So, here we are.
I am glad that I am 'allowed' to read other books...
I am glad that I am 'allowed' to read other books...just not those books. How generous those people are! (just sayin')
charlie
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/missing-without-a-trace-cha...
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/832524
Fox (sic) News
They didn't try to make a big thing about it, it was their headline for over 24 hours. This decision (by the publishers) played right into their Cancel Culture meme. And who should pop up at will to support their campaign? Senator Josh Hawley no less. He's bitter because he had a book contract cancelled by the publishers after his show of support for you know what on Jan 6th.
A load of whinging fools the lot of them. See a bandwagon... jump right onto it and hang the consequences.
I guess that Fox needs to try to win back all their viewers who have jumped ship to Newsmax and OAN...
Samantha
Just for clarity
Just for clarity here is a link to the statement from Dr. Suess Enterprises: https://www.seussville.com/statement-from-dr-seuss-enterprises/
And below is a copy-n-paste of the text. It's a surprisingly simple statement given scale of the outcry here and elsewhere.
-------------------------------------------------------
Statement from Dr. Seuss Enterprises
March 2, 2021
Today, on Dr. Seuss’s Birthday, Dr. Seuss Enterprises celebrates reading and also our mission of supporting all children and families with messages of hope, inspiration, inclusion, and friendship.
We are committed to action. To that end, Dr. Seuss Enterprises, working with a panel of experts, including educators, reviewed our catalog of titles and made the decision last year to cease publication and licensing of the following titles: And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street, If I Ran the Zoo, McElligot’s Pool, On Beyond Zebra!, Scrambled Eggs Super!, and The Cat’s Quizzer. These books portray people in ways that are hurtful and wrong.
Ceasing sales of these books is only part of our commitment and our broader plan to ensure Dr. Seuss Enterprises’s catalog represents and supports all communities and families.
-------------------------------------------------------
Your friend
Crash
It's not the government ... for once
It's the Twitterati. Technically it's not even the Twitterati directly, but the atmosphere they've fostered.
The books in question are low-sellers of the collection, and that is part of it. The part I am having trouble with is the attempted thought-censorship involved. Censorship is never the right answer, but for some reason it's the first answer low-information, easily-roused and childish people reach for.
It's even more infuriating that the same sites that are rising in outrage against 80-year-old children's books are carrying Mein Kampf and racist screeds of almost every flavour.
and the sad fact that one of the books--
And the sad fact that one of the books--And To Think That It Happened on Mulberry Street--was Dr. Seuss' (Theodor Seuss Geisel) first published children's book.
Now gone forever, not to be sold even as a used book, it seems, online.
charlie
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/missing-without-a-trace-cha...
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/832524
Utter Nonsense
Nothing is banned. Out of print, sure, but not banned.
You want that title, no problem! Buy it here: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&cm_sp=S...
Or, you can cruise the garage sales and church jumble sales and pick one up for pennies. Profits await you!
OR, check your local library if you want to read it so badly. For free. Here in liberal, communist, woke, culture-cancelling Brooklyn, it sits on the shelves for anyone with a library card to take home.
https://borrow.bklynlibrary.org/r1s/iii/encore/record/C__Rb1...
The Abe Books offerings of Mullberry Street
I went to the site. The Abe Books offerings of And To Think That I Saw it on Mulberry Street cost $900 and up. Well above the price ordinary people could pay.
On Amazon, there is one copy (used, like new condition) for $9. But itf you try to complete the order, you are informed that Amazon is unable to do that and you have the option to save the order (to be completed at a later date) when Amazon decides it is okay. But when you hit that button, they tell you that function could not be completed and your order was NOT saved.
charlie
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/missing-without-a-trace-cha...
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/832524
So, Buy The Compilation
A) You're not entitled to tell a publisher what to print.
B) You're not entitled to tell a seller what they can charge for something.
C) You ARE entitled to shop around. Here, let me help you: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m...
And, if you can't afford something, well, too bad. I guess you don't deserve to have it.
Meanwhile, check your local library. They're not in the usual business of pulling classics off the shelf. I'll bet if they ever had it, it's still there.
For how long?
How many days before it ISN'T in the library anymore?
It's gone from Amazon, it's not allowed on eBay, it's being systematically erased from record, so ... how many days before someone simply quietly pulls what copies are still on library shelves, and makes a short trip to the shredder?
I say "days" because I'm pretty sure "weeks" are a stretch, and "months" is completely out of the question.
Slander Your Local Librarian?
Obviously, you have no idea how libraries, or librarians work.
You owe every one of them an apology.
Worst Dr Seuss fan poetry.... ever!
As my final word (I swear!) on this topic
I've cut and pasted this attempt at Seussian poetry
directly from an advertisement (Original page HERE:
https://secure.winred.com/nrcc/dr-seuss?exitintent=true )
asking for donations to the National Republican Congressional Committee;
and claiming the unpubbing of these books was something that
"the Dems" did out of their hatred for freedom + dear ol' Dr. Seuss.
Without further commentary, here is...
WE NEED YOUR HELP TO SAVE DR. SEUSS
FROM THE RADICAL LEFT!
“Cancel Culture is TOXIC!”
Patriots proudly declare.
“Free Speech must be defended.”
Dems retort: “Too bad! Don’t care!”
If you’re tired of nonsense
Join us. Take a stand.
Condemn the Far Left for
Their radical plan.
We won’t be able to speak or think freely,
By the time the Dems are through.
Chip in $25 now and We’ll send “Cat in the Hat” right to you!
What borders on pure insanity?
Canada and Mexico.
.
Who joins Ben Carson?
I had the thought when Ben Carson was on Fox griping about the publishers’ decision of him doing a skit as one of the 2 Africans in grass skirts in one of these books.
I was trying to think of who would be a good black Republican to join him?
I also wondered if he would like his grandchildren to watch Song of the South?
Gillian Cairns
Ah yes...
Arguing against housing trans homeless in women's shelters even to the point of providing shelters with guidelines on how to recognize an MtF transwoman. Ideologically driven/science denying transphobe.
Love, Andrea Lena
Some things are art.
I believe some things are art and shouldn't be tampered with or altered, not even Warner Bros cartoons and Disney animation. As objectionable as they be to certain groups, they reflect society at the time. That makes them valuable in their own right. The art value of many of these may not be apparent to some, but that doesn't make them intrinsically bad. I'm thinking of art of the '60s and '70s in particular. One item in particular that attracted a huge amount of outrage when it was exhibited at the Met was an upside-down cross submerged in a glass of urine. (The artist was female, IIRC, and it was her urine.)
Now some SJW can possibly tell me what is more offensive, that or Warner Bros and Walt Disney. But it is my belief that the upside cross is far more offensive.
The animated art can have restricted viewing hours and a disclaimer before being aired. Heck, if PBS did a late night showing of the Warner Bros cartoons I'd buy a lifetime membership in response. In fact if they did it during their bi-yearly fund drive they might not be able to answer the pledge phones fast enough!
Edited to correct spelling.
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Context and appropriate use....
The cross in the urine thing is uncouth and tasteless to most people, but it doesn't bother me other than the fact that it's entire intent is to shock and outrage, as an atheist, I don't feel any moral outrage about it, it might fit Webster's definition of art but it's doesn't fit mine.
On media that is now offensive, well. times change. While the old Disney, and Warner Brothers cartoons should certainly be preserved, and should be freely available to see, are they something you want children to see before they have the ability to understand that it's not ok anymore to represent people the way they are in these works of art?
Art & Outrage
Art is kinda like porn, it's hard to define, "But I know it when I see it,"* It would be quite obvious that my opinion is markedly different from other people, that's life.
As for finding the cross outrageous, I too am a nonbeliever. I'm pretty much a live and let live type. But I know a number of religious people who are also live and let live people and I can be outraged on their behalf. If somebody sets out to deliberately upset a group of people, be they Jewish, Mormon, Lesbian, Transgender, Black, Hispanic, or whatever, then they have crossed the line in my book. If you are being outrageous for no good reason, you are wrong. And I will say so. Like Rodney King said: "Can't we all just get along?"
* US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Song of the South...
That's an Uncle Remus (?) story... that features a tar baby & a some crows?
Donna
Banning Things
Is rarely the answer.
Should we ban Disney's Cinderella because it depicts dwarves in what we now may consider to be a demeaning way?
Another correspondent has mentioned Pogo, which I still reckon is very funny and has the immortal line "We has met the enemy and he is us."
Many books, plays, movies and TV programmes from 40-odd years ago could not see the light of day in current PC society but serve to remind us of what things were like in those days.
I personally think that the decision to discontinue publication of some of the Dr. Seuss books was a public relations disaster. If they weren't selling just let them disappear from the metaphorical shelves. There must be tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of publications of all kinds which are no longer readily available on Amazon or elsewhere on the internet because there is no demand. They have not been "banned" but people just don't want to buy them any more.
I've never tried but I imagine that obtaining a copy of "The Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion" would be pretty difficult these days (and who'd believe it anyway?).
My original point was that this supposed "ban" has been weaponised and fictitiously attached to your First Amendment. Please read your First Amendment. It does not apply to commercial considerations.
If you want to complain to someone about the absence of some Dr. Seuss books on their websites complain to Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk (I can never remember which squillionaire is which).
I am going to search through our local second-hand and antiquarian bookshops for those Seuss titles which will become collectors' items and fetch vastly inflated prices. Mwa-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha.
Oops
I saw the comment subject "Oops" about a second before I saw the content, "double post". I was fantasizing that the "oops" referred to this sentence:
"Should we ban Disney's Cinderella because it depicts dwarves in what we now may consider to be a demeaning way?" I would hope not. After all, Cinderella doesn't depict dwarves, period. (That's "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs".)
This is a serious danger: people blundering (or lying) about what they ban, and also people having no idea what has been banned from them.
-- Daphne Xu (a page of contents)
My Bad
How could I possibly confuse Cinderella and Snow White? Must have been the Alzheimer's kicking in!
As has been noted here,
As has been noted here, Cancel Culture generally has the opposite effect those who wish to practice it intend.
Hugs!
Rosemary
Not so Sure
I hope that the cancel-culture trolling might have the opposite effect of what's intended.
Hopefully, people are reminded of "the Lorax". Hopefully, people are reminded of the cancel-culture trolls' own cancel culture.
But I'm not optimistic.
EDIT an hour later: Anyone remember talking Barbie? "Math is hard!"
-- Daphne Xu (a page of contents)
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