Speaking and writing in English can be like opening a can of worms. In recent correspondence I’ve been asked (albeit politely) whether I meant ‘a flu shot’ rather than ‘a flu jab’, ‘careening (a word I’d never come across) rather than ‘careering’ and whether ‘whilst’ (as opposed to ‘while’) is common in British English (yes it is - although its use is gradually declining). These are all matters of usage which changes over time and place and is to be celebrated so long as it does not impede communication. None is more ‘correct’ than the other. I have some relations who grew up in South Africa who refer to ‘traffic lights’ as ‘robots’ and to ‘medicine’ as ‘muti’!
The same might also be said of English pronunciation. For much of my childhood I was chided for talking with an ‘ugly cockney twang’. (I was born in a London slum, grew up in an aspirational working-class household and am entirely state educated.) I was therefore amazed when I began to visit the USA that my ‘plummy British accent’ would often be the subject of comment. There was the Indiana waitress who referred to it as being ‘awesome accents week’ or the hotel receptionist in Chicago who informed me that she'd been told about my British accent and that I sounded just like someone out of ‘Pride and Prejudice’. (If I had been a resident of Pemberley it would have been ‘behind the green baize door.’) One guy in New York even accused me of doing it ‘deliberately’ and informing me that the ‘Brits don’t have to talk that way’. Yet, whenever I visit Oxford or Cambridge or attend some smart formal function, my ‘impostor syndrome’ kicks in and I’m taken straight back to my proletarian roots.
Louise
Comments
Accents!!!
Accents! Don' even go there, or as Scousers and northerners are want to say; 'Leave it there la'!
Both these colloquial phrases mean basically 'Don't get into an argument about it'.
I could go on and on and on and on and on about accents but it achieves bugger all. People speak as they do and provided it does not impede communication then 'viv - la - difference!'
Hold on! That was French wasn't it?
in my neck o' the woods
it'd be, 'leave it be',
just saying like
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Accents!!!
Well, if it is French, it should be : vive la différence
But feel free to write it any way you want.
Deen
its a sad thing
that regional accents are seen so negatively by some sections of society. Word and dialect usage are something separate of course - was hauled over the coals at work once for using a word for idiot that I'd had in my vocabulary all through my school years in the East Midlands which in the North Midlands was considered very offensive.
Of course, I don't think I have a very noticeable accent, what I do have isn't strong so its not a big clue to my origins in itself - or is it? I must have an accent, when I travel around the UK I sometimes have issues being understood despite speaking clearly but there again, I have issues the other way in some places.
On the other hand, word usage gives a bit more of a clue to where I've spent most of my life, I go shopping for breadcakes, walk through the gennel (other spellings are available), I'm as likely to say aye rather than yes and I'm partial to a bit o' Parkin.
Strangely, when I travel abroad and converse with second language English speakers I have no such issues - well sometimes they aren't certain of a words meaning but they understand what I've said.
In my stories there are some characters from regions with strong accents or specific word usage, Josh in the Gaby series for example, comes from the Tyne area of north east England and his speech patterns reflect that. I try not to use too much dialect which could confuse many readers but in the 2D world of the written word you are in danger of flattening all language into one flat amalgam.
discuss!
Madeline Anafrid Bell
If you think that's a problem in the English(es) speaking world
then you should have a look at the problems French politicians speaking with a regional accent have.
Ah French...?
I clearly remember being in a meeting just outside Montreal with some locals and two Frenchmen from 1) Brittany and 2) Paris.
The only way the locals and the visitors could understand each other was to speak English. Oh, the ignominy of it all.
I was working in Grenoble at the time so my french was accented to that area much to the laugher of everyone else.
Samantha
Accents
I’m a retired nurse. Working in the ED a few years ago we had several resident physicians. All of them spoke good English. One from Central America and one from south Eastern Asia had to have translation help from us nurses. We could understand both but they couldn’t understand each other. It was their accents.
While working in south Eastern Missouri my north western accent made me sound angry to the locals many years ago. Turns out my speech patterns are faster and that made me sound angry!
BAK 0.25tspgirl
The problems arise when
The problems arise when English speakers start "swallowing" syllables and speak rather fast on top of that, with the important details being said in the subordinate clauses.
The UK and the USA
“Are two nations divided by a common language” (depending on who you believe this was coined by either Oscar Wilde or George Bernard Shaw
Anne Margarete
You Should Try
Indian English. "Oh my goodness. What I am thinking!" Spoken at twice the speed of English English (or American) and unintelligible without the appropriate wagging of the head.
how do you tell when an Indian doesn't have a clue?
He nods his head with a slight sideways slant.
I called it the Chennai nodding donkey when I was working there.
I like Indians
They don't think I speak too fast ;)
On the other hand speaking French with a "German" Swiss is a somehwat surrealistic experience given that French usually is rather lively and the German Swiss I have encountered are a bit sloooooooover.
Enjoy it
Had a work order to fix some problems in a lady's house. Arrived and could NOT understand a single word that woman was speaking. She had to show me everything she wanted fixed. She was British. Obviously fresh off the boat? Loved the way she spoke and her British accent and her mannerisms. At one point in life lived next door to a young girl, nineteen to twenty, from Nu Josey. (New Jersey) Needed an interpreter to understand her. Is that a part of the United States? Worked in Detroit for a couple years and everyone wanted to know if I was from Mississippi or Alabama with my slow southern drawl and twang. Them damn Yankees speak so fast I had to lean into their words to understand them. No wonder we lost the war. By the time our officers said, "Heah thees cum, get re a dey." Them damn yanks were already shooting.
Hugs Louise Anne
Barb
Life is meant to be lived, not worn until it's worn out.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Accents
One of my several sister-in-law resides in Colorado. When ever she visits family back here she says she knows she's in New Jersey when she gets off the plane and is ready for a cup of CAW-FEE.
Love, Andrea Lena
When I was growing up, one of
When I was growing up, one of my friend's mother would always make sure he'd put his clothes in the "draw". (She was from New Jersey)
My paternal grandmother was from near Texas, and when I was quite young, she had a dog aptly named, Woof. It took me some time to realize that being a southerner, she was not pronouncing the "L" in the name, "Wolf".
Hugs!
Rosemary
A friend
A friend of mine tells the story of a 3rd-grade spelling test given by a substitute teacher from Texas. She asked the students to spell "LAWN" but my friend knew that that word had not been on the list of words to learn for the week and so asked the teacher to use the word in a sentence. After she did, 31 students turned their pencils around and erased the answer they had already written down because the sentence she gave them was, "The LAWN roared." :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
More accents
If it weren’t for radio, television, fast transportation, and the internet (you tube etc) local and regional English usage would have drifted farther. Trans continental drift may have been great enough to require translators within the US.
BAK 0.25tspgirl
Deeply immersed in Arab Culture
I was born in America, but I spent almost 10 years as Muslim, and observant. For me, the most telling was the use of 'Bs' and 'Ps". I have been away from that for more than 10 years but Arab expressions are still with me. Observant Muslims seemed to have about a dozen words that were just there. Ya Allah still comes out for me automatically when I least expect it.
An Englishman's way of
An Englishman's way of speaking absolutely classifies him
The moment he talks he makes some other Englishman despise him
One common language I'm afraid we'll never get
Oh, why can't the English learn to
Set a good example to people whose
English is painful to your ears?
The Scots and the Irish leave you close to tears
There even are places where English completely disappears
In America, they haven't used it for years!
Why can't the English teach their children how to speak?
Norwegians learn Norwegian
The Greeks are taught their Greek
In France every Frenchman knows his language from "A" to "Zed"
The French never care what they do, actually, as long as they pronounce it properly
Arabians learn Arabian with the speed of summer lightning
The Hebrews learn it backwards
Which is absolutely frightening
But use proper English and you're regarded as a freak
Why can't the English
Why can't the English
Learn to speak?
Almost right
The French never care what they do, actually, as long as they pronounce it properly
They are as bad as the rest of us. There are incomprehenisble dialects all over France.
I once worked with a chap who was married to a French girl. She struggled with life in Angleterre and he was always on the phone to her while working in the office, trying to calm her.
Now I know a little French, but what he was saying sounded completely incomprehensible to me. The reason, as he explained when I asked him, was that he learned his French in Marseille! His wife was from there so they understood one another, but I doubt anyone from Paris would have.
In the end he gave in and they moved back to France, presumably to the south.
Penny
Language
We have the same problem here.
Our local newspaper, "Le Publicateur", is often a challenge. My French is not nearly as good as it should be, but I can speak, read and understand enough to get by. One article though, had me completely stumped.
I read and re-read it, but couldn't make head nor tail of it. I spoke to my wife and asked her what the hell it was all about and she told me it was written in Normandy patois.
So we live in Orne, on the border of Orne, Manche and Mayenne and we're not far from Brittany too. All four areas have their differences with pronunciation and even expressions, but Normandy patois is a beast all of its own. Even people who have lived there all their lives can't understand it. We don't stand a snowball's chance in Hades.
We've had all sorts of fun with the telephone, trying to get people to slow down, which lasts about half a sentence before they're rattling off like a bloody train again.
Our biggest surprise is the number of other Brits over here that can't seem to speak even basic school French. Some have even been here dozens of years and couldn't order "une petite tasse de café," if their lives depended upon it. Personally, I couldn't get by without coffee, so I made sure I knew that one.
Still, it's a lot of fun for this old fart.
N
From "My Fair Lady"...
...for those who didn't recognize it: Henry Higgins's opening song. Lyrics by Alan Jay Lerner, from New York City, based on G.B. Shaw's Pygmalion.
Eric
So much in this thread
Right...
I write a lot of accents. The only one I push hard is Geordie, which I use for specific effect, often comedic. My character Jimmy Kerr (pronounced 'car') does it deliberately. Geordie is a relic, like "Scots". of old Northumbrian (The real Scots were a tribe of Gaelic-speaking Irish invaders) and retains pre-Great Vowel Shift features. A Geordie joke, written in English:
Doctor: How bad is your back, George? Can you walk?
George: Work, Doctor? I can hardly walk!
Apart from Jimmy, I tend to write dialects by use of rhythm. Gerald Barker, for example, is written without using definite articles rather t'conventional way of depicting t'Yorkshire accent.
French linguistic history is also complex, as France is as artificial a country as England, being composed of multiple languages forced together, largely following the Albigensian 'Crusade'. Not that long ago, use of 'patois' was banned for official purposes, including on road signs, and in an amazing act of arrogance the government claimed that all patois/dialects were just that: variants of French.
Here are some of the 'variants of French', according to them:
Breton (a Celtic language)
Basque (unrelated to any other extant language)
Catalan
Occitan (the old language of what is now southern France)
Flemish
German
Spanish
Italian
Thankfully, they grew up.
I am a French speaker, but my accent is complicated. I worked in northern France, but I picked up a very strong southern accent years ago, and in an extra layer of WTF I studied at Caen University in Calvados, Normandy. It amuses French people everywhere except Paris, where they are simply and traditionally rude. i remember entering a bar in Toulouse once, and not understanding the landlady despite the fact that I understood everyone else. It turned out that she was from Paris, where the vowels and nasals are completely different.
On a related note, there is a tradition called the Norman answer, which is equivocation, avoiding giving a straight reply. On the other hand, if you consider, then again, but having said that, and so on. In a debate in the European Parliament, a francophone speaker couldn't understand why all the English speakers were laughing after the interpreter gave his words as "What we need now is Norman Wisdom"
There is a reason
English is English. England does not need its language prefixed by newcomers using our language.
Other countries that make up the British Isles have their own languages.
How insulted the Scottish people would be for instance if their language were called British Gaelic. Likewise English people speaking English.
アンその他
oh trust me it gets much much worse.
Don't ever try to tell someone from the uk that they are wrong, doesn't matter if they are or not, its like hitting a huge brick wall and you will get ( it's our bloodly language) and then it degrades from there.
The variations have less to do with distance than they do with, well attitudes.
A cute note. When it comes to singing almost everyone that sings in English does so with a north american accent. Paul McCartney is one of the few who does not. Seriously doesn't seem to matter where they come from they start singing and you would swear they are a north American band.
On canada side, Irish rovers, quite well known band that all spoke with an irish accent, however when they sing its like its gone.
Queen - not a hint of british accent.
I don't think accents are more or less in one area but more of an attitude that lets a person not understand others.
Even more funny, country singers, you would swear more than half are from tennesee (sorry for spelting) when in fact some are from uk! Even scotland!
And another cute accent thing. TRY to speak valley girl with a posh british accent. Its really hard and will make you and anyone around you laugh.
I shall just leave this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyAgy2CngfY
Brits singing Country
would never be accepted without assuming an American accent and its the same across all genres, very few modern 'artistes' are willing to risk not using at least a mid Atlantic accent when performing, the US market is key to their success.
That said, I can think of a few that have resisted, Dido, Arctic Monkeys (you can take the lads out of Sheffield but not Sheffield out of the lads!), more vintage, Yes, Genesis, Toyah, XTC and much more.
Another thread to this topic is the misconception that a 'British' accent sounds like Dick van Dyke in Mary Poppins (an accent so bad everyone this side of the Atlantic cringes when they hear it) There is no single British accent, just as there isn't a single American or German or French accent. Some regional accents can't be understood in other areas, its not just the use of dialect but whole speech patterns, whiny Liverpuddlians, the upward inflection that Bristolians add to every sentence, the sing song South Walians, the lack of an aitch in Tykespeak - its no wonder some singers opt to adopt a US drawl!
Madeline Anafrid Bell
We cringe
On this side of the Atlantic as well. While its a (mostly) cute movie, certain parts are best skipped over on replay!
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
The funniest thing
The funniest thing is that VanDyke had a British dialect coach who trained him to sound like that! Imagine how bad it would have been without the training!! LOL
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Something even worse than Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins
It's from a movie called BIKINI BEACH, of all things;
Frankie Avalon playing the long haired British singing sensation
"Potato Bug": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKpFW2Y--GM
As an American I just find it embarrassing in so many ways
from the accent (in severaL places it sounds like he's trying
to sound Chinese or something) to the Terry Thomas get up,
and I think we've truly found the lowest form of humor here...
or at least the lamest parody song ever.
~hugs, Veronica
What borders on pure insanity?
Canada and Mexico.
.
maybe for some
But a number of famous actors, actresses, and singers have all stated that "it just comes out that way when they yell"
Still id love to hear someone pull of speaking valley girl with a posh british accent.
Valley girl
It has two very specific meanings in the UK, particularly in Wales (opposite ends of our country), both of which are radically different from what I assume you mean, and both of which are very different accents.
Aussies Can Sing Country
Without using American accents. If you don't believe me listen to Slim Dusty on "A Pub With No Beer".