I know that there are presidential elections...
But everybody I know is keeping "radio silence".
People who had so much to say about Belorussian elections - just disappeared...
News media... the same.
Are there anyone still alive in the US?
I cannot just outright believe Kremlin-controlled news media that US of A is still there...
Are you OK? Is the US still there as the United States of America?
What is going on?
A word from our sponsor:
Comments
We Might Be Okay
Everyone is walking on eggshells, except for a few loudmouths who want to stir the pot.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Well, you just confirmed it's still there
However, as for the United States?
Actually, I'm surprised and relieved that so far it appears to have mostly been verbal.
I don't know about the United part
Half of the country seems to be foaming at the mouth because the loud-mouthed jerk is tweeting all kinds of stupidity. The past four years has encouraged the divisiveness and a lot of suppressed bigotry and anger is showing itself.
Good to see that some are still around and well!
Hopefully Russian hackers will choose a good president for you this time ;-)
Sorry, but Putin is already taken! ;-)
Russian Hackers...
...seem to be having more trouble getting through this year, unless Q is Russian.
Besides, reportedly the Chinese hackers favor Biden and an orderly transition.
Eric
Actually...
It is a well known fact, that Russian government decided that "Olgino trolls" are getting to be too much of a burden on the economy. So they were divided into two groups, one voting for Trump, another voting for Biden. Group that will lose the elections will be fired. (as in "let go", not as in "line up between a firing squad and a wall")
Hopefully other Americans will remember...
...that you have Democracy there: Freedom of speech and other freedoms if your freedoms do not kill other people's freedoms.
Some of my friends in the US prepared for the "zombie apocalypse" but so far some of them had reported back that they are alive an had not had to use their supplies yet.
Look for TV Rain on YT.
Look for TV Rain on YT.
They were speaking about Belarus non-stop and I guess about US presidential election too.
First question is...
Had they mentioned abortion prohibition in Poland?
I have friends and relatives in Poland and relatives and friends in Belorussia...
I will check that channel out! Thanks!
Sorry... TV Rain...
It is one of the media channels that is considered to be financed by the US State Department. People who believe that Puitin personally poisoned Navalny with Novichek - usually trust that channel implicitly... But sanity of those is questioned and had not being proved so far in any way.
They had published interview of the famous satirist Zhvanetsky, but somehow they forgot to mention that he had died today... Sorry... But you will get better coverage watching Russia Today... They had not mentioned Zhvanetsky or his death yet, but who had heard of him outside of the USSR?
If even have someone outside
If even have someone outside SU heard about him, who will understand him.
We slipped into a tear in Time Warp
It looks like many were changed to preadolescent brats that do not wish to share. Perhaps the NEO Apophis did this?
Hopefully they will be able to remember beginner's math...
And will be able to count votes correctly!
(there are rumors that some states already have more than 100% of votes... And they still have to process some more votes...)
Good luck!
And stay well! (And stay away from the rioters of any kind!).
(You remember the first rule of any kind of revolution? You have to be alive to continue your fight for your cause! So, be well, be alive!)
Math
Right now the math isn't adding up at all in my opinion. That's one of the major problems I see. I personally feel that despite there being more voters this time around, I'm unwilling to believe it's 16,000,000 more (and climbing hourly.) We only gained 2,000,000 voters in 2016 from 2012 (on one side), and they want us to believe that increased 8 times over 4 years later. I'm also not seeing this number spread too evenly state to state.
The main problem though was not having a system in place to have the voting done Tuesday night. We never should have allowed votes to come in after Tuesday. Some states allowed "postmark" rules and are accepting ballots up until next Friday. They needed a firm cutoff day across the country. If I can't hand in my test the day after finals were taken, we shouldn't have accepted votes after election day. The way these states handled it has raised nothing but suspicion. And it simply adds to the suspicion when each of these states seem to flip over night, one at a time.
I don't think Americans are stupid. The corruption just seems all too obvious without even trying hard to see it. I feel sorry for the citizens of this country, who can't even have a fair and transparent election process. No matter who wins this election, I think the American people have lost. It's going to leave a lasting scar.
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
It's Called the Constitution
Read the first sentence of the second paragraph of the Constitution. Each state decides what rules will exist for their state's voting.
In case you're wondering the house and Senate in Pennsylvania are controlled by Republicans.
If the dems corrupted the election why didn't they corruptly take over the US senate?
There are hundreds of down ballot races. If the vote totals were off you'd be hearing holy hell from the various "minor" losers.
The election isn't perfect. It is constitutional.
If corruption exists the courts have been packed by Mitch McConnell for the last many years with conservative judges and they will give fair resolution to such greivances.
So far the court cases have been petty and hardly the kind of thing that indicates corruption.
Two court cases have been settled. One demanded that certain ballots be sequestered in Pennsylvania to be revised if needed. They already were being set aside. The second allowed poll watchers to be within six feet of those counting instead of ten feet. Earth-shattering corruption?
It's time to set aside the QAnon nonsense and realize that if Biden is a moderate who received a lot of Wall Street backing because they believe he will run a moderate government.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Hmm
I see your QAnon and raise you Big Tech.
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
Elections with more than one candidate are an intolerable mess!
Many people would confirm that. My friend Kim, a friend of us called Vladimir, yet another called Rodrigo, etc etc...
The lastest news I heard...
...was they're bringing in an expert to help count the votes:
https://thecount.com/wp-content/uploads/TheCountSesameStreet...
~hugs, Veronica
What borders on pure insanity?
Canada and Mexico.
.
What's Goin' On?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykdUoAIUnz4
Love, Andrea Lena
I can't help but think of this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NXnxTNIWkc
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
Republic if you can keep it
Obviously we didn't. How many know and understand the U.S is a Republic and know the difference?
A lady asked Dr. Franklin "What have we got a republic or a democracy?"
He answered, "A republic if you can keep it.”
Hugs ManicRacer
Barb
The only constant in life is change and everyone dies in the end.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
The actual quote
“Well Doctor, what have we got, a Republic or a Monarchy?” Franklin answered, “A Republic if you can keep it.” Note, he was asked about a monarchy, not a democracy. However, I will be the first to admit that our system is not democratic. More voters in our country have voted for Democrats than for Republicans, but Republicans control the Senate. North Dakota, South Dakota, and Montana have the same representation in the Senate as California, New York, and Texas. The Electoral College continues this undemocratic imbalance.
So Much Bullshit
The USA is actually 50 different countries with 50 different sets of rules.
As a non-American I actually think you're doing pretty well keeping it together right now. We have electoral challenges and recounts all the time. It's called democracy and it will get sorted. In Australia we've managed to do it for 120 years without having a war over it. You had one war in 230 years and that wasn't actually about counting votes, so have a little faith.
I'll admit to having a dog in this fight and it ain't Trump, but give the system a chance to work. From where we (and I include most countries that are not run by dictators, and have lived in both kinds) sit, there is no systematic corruption and the votes being counted are close to 100% genuine.
Your tallying method is peculiar to your country but every one has different systems. Your forefathers chose it and you have to live with it and abide by the results. I really don't think the Supreme Court will overturn those results. Running off at the mouth will not help and there's only one individual doing that at the moment.
Things That Unite Us
I'll start the list and invite others to add. These are things that unite us. Not just US citizens. But all of us.
Dolly Parton
Pizza
Grandparents/Grandkids
Pets
Babies
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
United
I'll just add one:
Stories: All human societies have storytellers.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Basics
Clean water.
Shelter from the elements.
A decent life for our kids.
Education.
Medical Treatment.
I thought Medical Treatment
I thought Medical Treatment *divided* the US ?
If you are inside the system your medical treatment is better than that of most of europe, but there numbers outside the system are so large that the average US healthcare is well below that of western europe.
Help for Ryan
Some history here: Counting votes used to take much longer. Active duty service members wanted to vote but couldn’t make it home to the polls. (Especially Officers....) states responded by creating absentee balloting, which came and went by Mail. (You still had to be a registered voter and had to request an absentee ballot.) Traveling business men (and traveling wealthy persons) seized on this convenience. Time passes. Some larger (western) states look for ways to cut monetary and people costs. If you do all the voting by Mail it is much cheaper than polling sites and voting machines. On site voting has a cut off at 8 pm Election Day. Mail in ballots have to be post marked no later than Election Day. It can take more than a week for some Mail to get delivered. All the”late” ballots were posted on or before Election Day. Just our trumped out postal service is not internet fast. Not to mention blip culture and instant gratification in the modern world. Clearer now Ryan?
BAK 0.25tspgirl
our long national nightmare is over
Biden has won
Thank God!
Now I can stop filling out fake ballots and head down
to the casino with the $20 the Democrats gave me!
(Oh wait, I wasn't supposed to tell anybody...)
~cheers from Nevada, Veronica
What borders on pure insanity?
Canada and Mexico.
.
~
Remember those SorosBuxs are only valid in Red states to destroy their economies
Not so fast I'm afraid
Trump's legal lapdog has been upping the legal threat in PA (at the very least). He is claiming that hundreds of thousands of Biden votes are illegal and that the GOP monitors have been denied access to the count.
There are a lot more twists and turns to come before (hopefully) Trump is made to do the perp-walk out of the White House.
Whatever happens the current POTUS will never concede defeat. He just does not know how to lose (anything).
Samantha
Hopefully
. . .the noise out of DC will soon be the sound of one hand clapping.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
True...
He never had any sanity TO lose...
~
Hang on there cowgirl. Biden's margin in 3 states, including Pennsylvania is well within the limits to trigger a recount. The PA recount would need to be requested by the 12th, and finished by the 24th. Trump will most likely still lose. But he can draw this whole process out until January if he w̶i̶s̶h̶e̶s̶ has the money.
Oh I'm well aware how it
Oh I'm well aware how it works (or should work). This isn't my first election. Don't assume I'm for Trump either. I've seen some of these same issues happen in other elections, only to a smaller degree. However, I'm seeing now that it's extremely easy with the mail-in situation to, at the very least, raise suspicions. Simply sharing what I see happening, for those not following any of this, in other countries, or what have you. Not everyone has full access to the complete story.
I will say that nobody should simply turn a blind eye to this, on either side. This is actually our republic at stake here, and goes beyond naming an old fossil as president. It's about our very vote coming into question. It would be a very different thread, I imagine, if all of these challenges were coming from Biden, and Trump was laughing his ass off while bloviating on Fox. Most of the questionable things floating around are being challenged, however, and we'll wait and see. At the very least, this election has made a lot of eyebrows raise.
What I do realize now, is that our country simply cannot handle mail-in ballots on a large scale. That's evident no matter how you want to slice up the electoral college.
Now, the claims: (Some of you like conspiracies. Take these how you will.)
Early graphs in Wisconsin and Michigan showed a steady trend of Trump taking the lead in both states all night long on Tuesday. Vote counting abruptly stopped in these two states, and across 5 other states. We were left with a "wait and see" attitude from the media. This already raises suspicion, because it says to the American people that our votes weren't important enough to count on election night. They claimed they didn't have enough people to handle the vote counting, yet now claim they were being counted through the night.
At 5am there was a sharp vertical spike for Biden in both states (WI/MI) on these graphs. Reports of people moving in boxes during that time in Detroit, Michigan, and poll watchers being asked to leave in Milwaukee. Both of these states claimed they stopped counting, yet were active in these cities over night. The story in Wisconsin changed from them "stopping their count Tuesday night," to "we never stopped counting." Those graphs have since been replaced to show a steadier uptick in the vote count, but the originals still exist. Biden overcame a 100k vote deficit in Wisconsin, and a 300k vote deficit in Michigan. And the ballots counted were close to 90% leaning Biden. Just enough to eek out victories in both states.
In Pennsylvania, a state known for decades of corrupt voting practices, they claimed that their voting was in Tuesday night, except for some outlying rural western counties. (They didn't have enough people to handle those votes). Trump was up close to 700k votes when the vote counting stopped. The next day there were numerous reports of poll watchers not allowed within 30 feet of observing the count. Some as far as 80 yards distance were reported. This already violated a court order that had been issued for the poll watchers to be within 10 feet. When the court finally allowed them to be within 10 feet, three entire days of counting had already passed. So people are asking, if they already violated one law, how many others did they violate?
In Georgia, another state where the counting was abruptly called off, they claimed they only had one county left to count. Mainly due to a water pipe bursting in the facility they were being counted. When they reconvened the count, it is reported that they completely shut out poll watchers of both sides. The vote slowly trickled up for Biden, to where he has a narrow lead there. The kicker to this one, is they claimed there were only 130k ballots roughly left to count. They counted way more, and somehow the majority of them trended to the Biden camp. Which seems like a logistic improbability to anyone with an open mind. This state has already issued a recount, so I'm not sure if there are any legal challenges against it.
In Nevada there are claims of ballots being counted from people who no longer live in the state. I think they've already ruled out 5k of these, but I don't see the state going to Trump in any case.
Anyway, these are the claims right now. I've tried to put them as objectively as possible. It's not hard to see why people are suspicious. If the states all stand it looks as if Biden has eeked out a victory. Either way, it's not the landside projected, and our country is still divided and polarized. That's why I say that the American people have truly lost. This is worse than 2016 when people were upset that Clinton won the popular vote, but lost the presidency. And all of this suspicious activity only further cements a lack of distrust in our government. If people can't even trust the vote, then we're in deeper trouble than arguing about our petty differences.
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
~
Boy I sure can't wait to see your citations for all of these! I'm on the edge of my seat!
You missed the point
These are the claims that have been levied by the Trump team. I never claimed they were accurate, nor am I here to validate them. It's just what I have read and seen them claiming. I'm not going to scour the internet for them, because I don't care that you have citations or not. I have seen the video of the Detroit claim personally. It's about a 30 minute video on youtube, along with some of the other claims from people talking to news channels about not being able to see the vote count, or getting kicked out of them. Go find it yourself if you honestly care. I don't have the time to put them in a nice little pile for you.
My point was merely to give an account of what the "other side" is claiming. So this thread doesn't look like a one-sided account of all things that transpired here in America. Considering someone out of country asked what it is going on, it's nice to present them with what is actually going on.
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
~
Oh I see! You don't believe conspiracy theories. You just irresponsibly disseminate them!
Shakes head
It's about as irresponsible as ignoring 50% of the news going on right now. These may turn out to be conspiracies, but right now they're deemed "claims" by the GOP. They are actual claims being legally challenged. I presented what they claimed, not wild conspiracies that I think exist. They might be true. They might not. I said we'll see. It all depends on the evidence, if any, that they come up with. They sit and watch this more than any of us are willing to.
And they're going to have about three months to gather that "evidence." The latest update from Rudy Giuliani is they've found 350k ballots in PA, and 50k or so in Detroit, MI that they can "confidently get ruled out." They're going after the easy states they think they can prove. They could change the results if true. Maybe even steal the election if they do this in other states. It might go somewhere. It might not. It doesn't discount the fact they're attempting to do things to change the election. And it doesn't mean it shouldn't be reported on because Trump lost. Hell, if anything, reporting on it would make the media look more transparent.
I'd say "Google it," but all you can find on Google is how Rudy had a convicted sex offender at the press conference. Or some other nonsense that has absolutely nothing to do with the election. Google unfortunately has a horse in the race as it were. They know Trump wants to change section 230.
Like I said, if you really care, go look into this yourself. If not, well that's your prerogative. But please stop accusing people of spreading conspiracy theories, when they're simply stating the claims of the other side.
I for one would hate to have a sour result to this election, and not know why it happened.
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
~
"Trump said that Ted Cruz's father was the second shooter. I just repeated the claim. I'm blameless for what other people think of my words."
You think I don't know exactly where you came up with this bullshit? Just because other people don't spread it around, doesn't mean they don't know where it comes from.
~~
That one is easy to debunk though. X-files revealed it was the Smoking Man. There's video evidence.
And if you know where I came up with this, then why in the world were you asking me to cite it? That's like asking for me to post more "bullshit." Yet, you want to sit and say it's irresponsible if I post the "bullshit." You can't have it both ways.
Let the courts handle it. They'll find out real quick if it's "bullshit."
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
Thank You for Your Compilation
I grew up in a farm in North Dakota.
We were dirt poor farmers. My father's barn was a run down building he'd moved onto our homestead. It gets COLD in North Dakota. Holstein cows are not particular about where they defecate often doing it during the milking process. So, being opportunustic, we would use pitchforks to stack their manure against the side of the barn. Mixed with straw it became sort of an Adobe insulation.
In the spring we had to load our manure spreader and haul that fertilizer out to our fields.
So you can see -- I have expertise in how high you can stack manure and how extensively it can be spread around.
Let's just take one state. The Trump campaign whined mightily about all the wrongdoing in Wisconsin. Yet when they first spoke to a recount, Scott Walker - a former Republican candidate for the presidency - stated that he suspected a recount would change the totals by one to two hundred votes.
Your questioning of the election rings hollow. We live in a highly partisan world with strict laws regarding bipartisan pollwatching.
Both sides were lawyered up.
Reporters were thicker than the flies on the farm of my youth.
Trump started whining about election fraud four years ago when Hillary Clinton kicked him in the total vote. He couldn't accept reality then and established a commission which eventually found zilch. Despite historical evidence to the contrary he tried to impune the integrity of mailed In ballots.
Here's where his nonsense falls apart. Millions of us went through the mailing in process. Millions of us received emails affirming that our ballots had been received. It's much more secure than insight voting imho.
In 2016 and long after Trump called his victory a landslide. He amassed 304 electoral college votes. It appears Biden will get 306.
It's spring for the Whitehouse. Time to clean out the barn and get rid of the bullshit.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
We'll see
Right now the wind has a strong smell coming from the east.
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
Right Now
It's your comments that have a strong smell, and it ain't perfume.
Now now
No need to get personal.
I would hate to think we've lost the freedom to have a healthy sense of skepticism in this country.
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
Talking About Personal
It seems that you have your own definition of "personal". Angela Rasch replied to your comments quite specifically and you chose to respond with a jibe.
Let's be clear. Even a Fox News reporter responded to claims that Republican observers were not allowed to observe the counting process with a denial, which is openly available on Youtube and elsewhere. Even Trump lawyers have been forced to admit that they cannot substantiate any wrongdoing and that Republican scrutiny has been available throughout the process.
As for the votes supposedly in question the reason that postal votes were not counted in some states was because Republicans in the state assemblies refused to allow them to be counted before polling day. Postal voting has been permitted for many years, primarily to allow members of the armed services serving overseas to be able to register their votes. Those votes generally favour the Republican side of the political spectrum.
Your objection to these votes has no basis in fact. If you want to have a civil discussion about this subject then you have to start with a factual basis, not some fanciful manufactured theory.
Otherwise I have to ask if you subscribe to QAnon or some other fringe organisation. If you do, what are you doing on a site like this which is devoted to supporting TG people?
There is no evidence that there have been any organised irregularities in vote counting or that the votes being counted are in any way illegal.
First of all
First of all. They're not my objections. If anyone would read what I actually posted in my second post, they would see that. I simply stated all of the claims (legit or not, settled or not) that the Trump team has filed. Along with the reasoning other people are seeing behind them. Why? Because it's the other side of the story. It's okay if someone wants to debunk them, or show that they've been resolved, etc. That's not going to offend me. I'm not even asking anyone to cite anything, like the response I got earlier.
What does offend me, is people instantly thinking I'm a Trump supporter, or a QAnon nutcase, because I showed some skepticism. Hence the canned responses to Jill. Her first response hinted at me being with QAnon. Just like yours. That's not a legitimate place to start a civil discussion. Her second response was about cow shit. Again, not a great jumping off point for a discussion.
Also, I am transgender. So at least have a little bit of compassion there. Everyone is acting like I'm instantly standing on the other side of some proverbial battlefield. This is a thread asking about "what's going on?" I've said what is going on. Can we not even handle that anymore?
Edit - Don't assume the smell in the east I'm referring to is about election fraud.
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
They Are Your Objections
I quote you.
"the math isn't adding up"
You did not believe the additional number of voters (your words, not mine)
So far about 147 million have voted. That's about 66-67% of those eligible (220 or so million)
In 2016 the number was 132 million, so 15 million or so more have voted this time around. That makes your estimate of 2 million look pretty sick.
"the corruption is all too obvious"
Funny...nobody has been able to corroborate that so far and people like Fox News and Breitbart would have been all over it if it was true, let alone all the Republican governors and state legislatures.
You claim you are just being devil's advocate but it looks very much like you are pushing a barrow for somebody so why don't you come clean?
If you want a civil debate then start with the facts.
There Are Good Reasons
. . .that Erin stops political debates. People have bias and tempers flare.
However -- Jo makes a great point. Trump has been grotesquely anti-trans. His stance on military have set us back years. His attacks on trans equality are disgusting. In the sixties, we said if you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem. When someone comes on a trans site and spouts specious "facts" and then claims not to be partisan . . . it creates obvious assumptions and questions.
That isn't being personal . . . it's simply how it is.
QAnon exists and is a dangerous threat to our country. There are quite a number of people who readily believe its propaganda. People who repeat its message need to realize that they're threatening the future of our country.
The best path forward is to realize that Joe Biden is a good and honest man. Sure he's old. But he's NOT senile. He also has a propensity to listen to advisors. Admitting that reality works for everyone but Trump. Trump's interests are not necessarily the best interests for the country, no matter how many times he says it.
When Trump was elected I told all my friends to give him a chance.
Give Biden a chance.
Support the office.
Respect the constitution.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
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