Over the last two decades, I’ve written many dozens of TG stories.
Some are light and fluffy.
Some are dark and dreary.
My stories have gathered over twelve thousand kudos and about two thousand comments -- whatever that means.
All in all, I think I have a broad understanding of those BC readers who are kind enough to comment or post a kudos.
In general, I think that represents about three to five percent of those who read stories here.
One phenomenon I have noted is that there is generally an expressed distaste for forced feminization stories. A much smaller percentage of people will comment or leave a kudos for a forced-fem story. If a comment is left, the odds of it being negative are much higher.
Yet, the average forced feminization story attracts fifty to one hundred percent more hits than my other stories.
I find that very interesting.
Jill
Comments
I totally agree!
I don't have the stats (haven't done the math), but I agree. I have way more hits on some stories with a forced femme theme (in ratio to kudos)--to the point that I am hesitant to post stories with those themes. I am working on a story to actually bring the Broken! series to an end, but it is full of forced femme. I still don't know whether to post it.
Sure, I know--just mark it and let the reader decide... :)
HUGS!
S
Now that is weird
Just based on my last five stories (not counting today's) that seems right.
The forced one was "A Special Kind of Revenge" which got the most hits (2,253) but the lowest kudos (4.3%)
Compare to the romance stories "Camping" and Executive Assistant" with 6.9% and 7.4% respectively.
Then there are my historicals "The Dark Lady" and "The Bisley Boy" which I think just puzzle the readers (?)
Maryanne
Historical
It's hysterical how poorly my historical have done.
Please keep writing yours -- they're terrific.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Same here
it is a bridge that I'm not going to cross. However, I have wondered about writing about the aftermath of FF and how the victim can recover. Only some thoughts and it would not be an easy story to tell.
Personally, I find it sad that people get off on stories that involve Forced Fem. I try to avoid them entirely. That's why I also avoid dares or bets. These are often borderline FF.
I wish they'd go away.
Samantha
Residue - SamanthaMD
I wrote a story about the aftermath of forced fem.
You're exactly right. It was horrible to write.
It's in Hatbox -- Residue.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
No thanks
I avoid FF labelled stories as for a TS it is even more distasteful.
Identity theft ditto.
A huge percentage of stories on Fictionmania are of that ilk so rarely is a Fictionmania story worth reading and I wish they would stay away from BC.
FF
What I'd like to see more of are averted FF scenarios - where the lad doesn't succumb to the attempted blackmail. Maybe his colleagues and friends already know about his crossdressing, maybe he suspects he's being set up in advance so makes plans, maybe he lets her send out the incriminating photos but knows his friends / workplace will regard it as a prank or lost bet so no long term consequences, maybe he has a secure computer password so his attempted blackmailer can't access his contacts list to send out the incriminating photos, maybe he's found evidence of her "playing the field" so can negate the threat with one of his own...
There was one tale on FM where the protagonist had been drugged, raped and dressed overnight - but (a) he was a lawyer, (b) his wife and lover had been dumb enough to record the experience, (c) they played it back to him on the laptop, (d) he covertly recorded their confession (asking them to explain what they'd done to him), then under the pretence of needing a few moments to consider his new position in life, emailed both recordings to law enforcement, removed / cut off the clothes he'd been dressed in, dressed normally then walked downstairs (to much mocking) just as the police turned up to arrest the wife and lover.
Meanwhile, I wonder if the high hits but low kudos / comments are from the FM crowd and others (not registered here) seeking out those kinds of tales?
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
Push the boundaries of decentcy
We do it because we can. It's tied into human nature. "Don't do that." So we do it to see why we shouldn't do it. FF, erotic bondage, is how big a step from transition? We write boy to girl, girl to boy, bullies, abandonment, suicides, etc. and balk at pushing the boundaries? Are so use to the things we and others write, it is ho hum when it shocks others who haven't run into our "normal" stories?
Each individual has a mental barrier they won't cross. Normal is not kill anyone. Hand them a gun, train them, put them in a war and killing is a normal situation.
Thank God most people have all those barriers for so many things they won't do. Do I dare ask how many have that FF buried under the mattress after they wrote it?
Hugs People
Barb
I love the human psyche
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
What Sort of Forced Fem?
I am not astute enough with Psychology to make an authoritative ruling on these things. There is the kind of FF story in which it is actually voluntary perhaps in a very concealed way. The author, or perhaps protagonist derives pleasure from it. In the other kind I am aware of, it is completely involuntary, and may or may not have a good outcome.
My "MS Frankenstein" and "Desert Princess" are two of the latter, perhaps coming out of the fact that my own transition was initially not voluntary?
I am one of those who comment.......
Extremely negatively regarding forced fem. I spent a large portion of my adult life in some particularly shitty parts of the world doing my sworn duty, and one thing stood out above all others - the world is filled with very nasty people who enjoy hurting others.
Between the code I was taught as a child (honor, duty, country), and how I eventually interpreted it - I came to realize that honor demanded that I had a duty to protect the innocent from evil. That more than doing my duty to my country and to my family, I had a duty to all those who were in need. This was the way I managed to emerge from those shitty areas and shitty actions with my soul still intact. My whole concept of family changed from blood relatives, to those I shared blood with in the service, to all those who were in need of our help.
This alone would cause me problems with forced fem stories. But over and above that, I abhor any story that claims the protagonist is force feminizing someone “because they love them.” The only thing worse than that are those stories where a wife convinces her husband that since he can’t please her sexually she deserves to have sex with other men - all while feminizing or cuckolding the husband. That isn’t love. On the one hand it is simple and pure dominance of another for enjoyment’s sake, and on the other it is simply an excuse to cheat on your spouse with their knowledge and consent.
Love is a commitment where you care more about another person than you do about yourself. Forced feminization and love do not belong in the same story - let alone the same sentence.
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
There are degrees of forced fem
I have used the device a few times, including one of a mother trying to avoid her son having to join an army with an active campaign going on, it was probably more tricked than forced. The majority of comments were negative, I didn't notice how it did for numbers of reads. One of my lightest stories, Totally Insane which is effectively a full length novel, starts off with the protagonist being tricked by his brother to do an undercover recovery job, but even this is not dark matter, whereas I accept Charlotte's Tale is but I wanted to explore darker areas than I did in 'Bonkers'.
Where the protagonist is the continual victim of abuse from the other characters, is a different matter and that is distasteful and while I accept there are some very nasty people everywhere, and what they do is unforgivable, does that necessarily correlate with an author populating their story with them, does life follow art (if it can be called that)? I would hate to think anything nasty I've written would inspire someone to copy it, unless you have a poor opinion of the joys of cycling. People who are living in the real world can distinguish between the real and an imaginary world, though I accept some vulnerable folk can't and have to be protected. Those who are fantasists may have difficulty and sadly there seem to be several in high positions in various governments. But I hope BC readers are more discerning and I do label my stuff as fiction so there should be no doubt, at the same time I don't wish to write 'vanilla' stuff all the time because it doesn't reflect most of our lives which are constant peaks and troughs interspersed with some plateaux. Also if stories are labelled, the reader can decide if they wish to read it or give it a miss. I am just as likely to avoid superheroes or magical transformation stories, but I'm aware they are popular.
In the end you pays yer money and takes yer choice, which is probably a realistic position.
Angharad
when I was 12 my bubbie made me put on a skirt
and a babushka and help her make beet soup. It was borscht fem!
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Laika,
You are one crazy mermaid, but we love you.
Angharad
Spacibeh
Darlink...
Love, Andrea Lena
My Aunt Margo from Antwerp
put me in a dress and told me I was her pretty girl...mooi meisje ...
It was Forced Flem
Love, Andrea Lena
My experience
I'm not fond of forced fem either.
However, I have written one story that is clearly forced fem. Looking at Kudos that one is exactly average among my stories (well, if you round to the closest integer).
Then I have written about half a dozen stories where you can find some form of external compulsion/tricking. This can be construed as forced fem if you so wish and I have been called on that in one case by one person. That, and all but one of the "borderline" stories are well above average. Actually, my most popular story has a small element of forced fem in that sense in it.
I wonder what this tells about my writing?
Not always what you think
I agree with Angharad. To say 'forced fem' is to lump together many different types of stories but not all of them follow the same old line.
My story The State does not make mistakes is essentially forced fem, as the protagonist is changed against his will, but most of the tale is about what happens after the offendant is caught.
Heck, when you get down to it, Somewhere Else Entirely is forced fem! However, no-one would regard that tale in the same light as much of the usual stuff.
The problem with such broad generalisations is the usual one: take them at their face value and miss many gems among the manure.
Penny
Romantic at Heart
I avoid forced feminization, meaning physically restrained and bodily assaulted, but I have written a few:
"The Surgeon", "A Special Kind of Revenge", "Mangina" perhaps, and "Bait" were all about insane physicians and did not dwell on torture - straight to surgery. This is the waking-up-a-woman scenario, and as I don't do magic, this is how it is done Bait
"Jonni", "Indian Red" and "Sporus" were emasculation with feminization following from within, I think.,
So "Mermaid" (crew on a fishing Boat), "Gran's Tale" (a gang adversary), and "The Rose of Kandahar" (Taliban captors) were genuine FF, but happy outcomes, as with many of the others - hence the words used as the subject.
That is 10 stories out of 180 so I think I am true to my principles.
But was "The Waif" forced?
Also, is hypnosis forced? I don't use that either, but then there is "Paralyzed" and maybe "The Bedsit"?
Maryanne
Disagree on SEE
I have to disagree about SEE. Who is doing the "forcing"? The alien beings caused the events that lead to the unwanted sex change, but it was through an error in the equipment that the beings in charge were not equipped to notice. A screwup, yes. But forced, not in the least. No promises or contracts guaranteed to Gary that he would be exactly as he was before, besides how do you enforce a verbal or written contract when one party is dead. What standing does a deceased person have in court to charge a breach of contract?
No, IMHO, there is nothing that can be construed as "force" in SEE.
Now what I find amazing is certain much acclaimed authors whose body of work is essentially forced fem yet seldom if ever are they called out on it. Sometimes a person who claims to be anti-forced fem will heap praise on a person who has literally written nothing but forced fem. I at least try to be consistent, I am very much against forced fem and I block authors that write it. If "forcedfem" is a keyword then I don't open it.
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
SEE
To expand, when one speaks of Forced Fem to me it means the form where there is somebody or some being who is inducing the change and forcing the change without benefit to the 'forcee'.
The deliberate, malicious intent of the enforcer is the form that is abhorred as it is little different from slavery. It is extremely disturbing and speaks to the ills of the human psyche.
This is in contrast to non-desired changes due to unavoidable circumstances (e.g. escape, fate worse than death etc), 'oopsies' (e.g. SEE), Ex Deus Machina changes (e.g. gods), natural body changes that are genetic (e.g. CAH) etc.
Angela was being overly broad, no doubt to stir conversation but the malicious form of forced fem is what she should have been more specific about in the original blog post.
No - Kimmie I Was Not Being Overly Broad
I believe the BC definition of forced fem is anytime the protagonist is forced to become feminine.
I agree entirely with you that intent should be the real test. This gets us back to the fine line between manipulation and motivation.
It also begs a discussion of how much does anyone really know about another person.
These are all great questions that are fun to explore through fiction.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Gosh... at 69
wish I was overly a broad...
Love, Andrea Lena
Just to clarify
In my reference to "certain authors" I was not referring to Angela.
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
"The Deception of Choice" by Fleurie
I think this story was a partially unsuccessful Forced Fem. It is hard for me to categorize; lots of brainwashing, with the goal coming clear at the end. The poor victim is left with a very uncertain future. Can't say I liked it but it did help me to avoid suicide. I won't bore you with how I got involved with transition and TG. It is now clear to me that I should have just crossdressed on Friday, and learned to write lurid fiction.
Forced fem
A lot of JulieO stories revolve around forced fem. She also works with the aftermath. Her Farnsworth foundation talks a lot about ameliorating the damage done. She has magic, divine powers, electrochemical effects, medical technologic accidents, and sexual villainy transformations. Everyone has to come to terms with their new self. A few are too damaged to return to independent living. A very few are trans. While trans victims do the best everyone has trauma to survive. What say you peers?
BAK 0.25tspgirl
I appreciate the guidance
I've appreciated Angela's comments on how various types of stories fare here on BCTS, and as far as I've seen, her observations are quite accurate.
As a writer of stories in which a male-to-female transformation is usually a surprise (to say the least), and none of which feature the prior signing of a fully-informed consent, I can confirm that I not only have readers, but that a healthy percentage hang on to the last chapter. I call the difference in hits between the first and last chapter the fall off, and to me it's an important statistic. I think I do pretty well in that regard.
I write these stories because that's where my imagination goes. I am almost constantly puzzling out ways in which a man can turn into a woman, and then -- once transformed, what sex would be like. That's what I wonder, that's what I imagine, and that's what I write. I don't expect everyone to like it, and I certainly don't expect everyone to read it.
There is such a mountain of stories and blog posts here at BCTS that I suspect that a person could read for six hours a day for decades, and never read a forced-fem story unless they wanted to.
I think we have a good system of tags and cautions, and that if readers pay attention to them, no one needs to find themselves offended or surprised.
- io
I started by reading forced fem
back before the net, that was pretty much all I could find. I liked the idea of someone else making the decision to have me become a girl, as owning up to my feelings would have triggered a lot of self-hate. these days, if I do anything related to forced fem, it's to make a point about the nasty side of making decisions for another person.
Taking the Decision Away from Me
I understand this completely, Dot.
In most of my stories my hero to heroine is forced by circumstances rather than by malice on the part of another, to assume the feminine role.
This is just me not being able to take that crucial step.
I have written a lot of stories without resorting to violence or torture, or mind control, and have come up with a multitude of scenarios, however unlikely, that "force" the change. And still more novel circumstances to come ...
Maryanne
Comic book villainesses penned by misogynists
What I hate about so many forced femme stories where women are the feminizers is how they just seem to be power mad sadists with no motivation for what they're doing beyond pure evil, often whole cabals of such characters seemingly involving every woman in town. Such portrayals strike me as innately misogynistic + make me want to respond with-
WELL FUCK YOU TOO!!!
I know this probably isn't why these characters were written this way, that they're intended to be erotic + exciting for a certain type of submissive who'd love to be one of their victims (at least in fantasy); and you can't expect erotic proclivities to be rational or only about "positive" emotions, sweetness + light (I've got my own bizarre kinks); and I know viewing what someone else is into through a political lens often grossly misrepresents their situation (like TERFS erroneously accusing us of all kinds of ghastly sexist motives for being trans...); but it's how I react to such stories + why I don't read them.
~hugs n' smoochies! Veronica
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
One FF Story?
IIRC, I've only written one flat-out FF story -- apart from unexpected, unwanted, unaware reality-shift-magic-transformation stories. "John's Living Nightmare" has received more hits by far than any other story of mine -- 13000+ hits. (The opening salvo to "A Bikini Beach Summer" is second, the only story with more than half that.) The kudo/hit percentage is 0.95%. Even so, it's way in the front of my 2nd tier of kudos.
-- Daphne Xu
The metrics on trans fiction are always screwy.
According to a judgement purely of how many people will read it, the ideal trans fiction story is forced femme with a guy who ends up either cuckolded or now the happy little servant to his wife (and I use "his" here because the stories often revolve around characters whose views of their own gender remain male-oriented.)
According to comments and feedback, at least here, the ideal trans story needs to have external impetus for the change so as the MC doesn't have to take the blame, but they should always fully embrace their femininity and wind up in a lesbian relationship at the end.
It's six of one, half a dozen of the other.
I think what drives the popularity of TG fic for a lot of people IS that escape from responsibility, the idea that they can have these things they want and not have to admit to people that they wanted it in the first place. After all, if you're MADE to act like a simpering maid who shows her panties to everyone in the house every chance she gets, then it's not YOUR fault, it's someone ELSE'S perversion that leads to it, right?
Those kinds of stories get little and comments and kudos, however, because of the nature of the community here more than anything.
Basically, we have a lot of great ladies here who have taken responsibility for their lives and their passions . . . but a lot of them have either come up FROM being into the forced stuff, or still find that bit of a fetishistic twist appealing now and again.
*shrug*
The first ever trans story I read was technically forced femme, Sarah Bayen's "G11: Mistaken Identity." It got me firmly interested in the genre as a whole, and honestly, the idea that I could have what I wanted and it not be something anyone could fault me for because it was out of my control was very appealing at the time. I'll occasionally still read tales that are what I consider "gentle" forced femme, or involuntary femme (like accidental magic stories and the like.) I've never been able to get into the hard stuff though: guess I just don't have enough kink in my blood.
I mostly write sweeter stories, because I long ago came to the conclusion that I want to take responsibility for who and what I am, and shouldn't be afraid of it. They don't do so great most of the time, but they sure as heck are more fulfilling to me to read and write.
Maybe I should try and write a forced femme story like that some day, see if I could?
Who here would read it?
Pssht, who am I kidding: nobody will bother to answer that truthfully either direction.
Melanie E.
Funny
" . . . wind up in a lesbian relationship at the end." I find it more the other way around; most of the new women seem to suddenly turn their sexual preferences around and switch to preferring men rather than women, at least the ones that were normal het men before whatever happened, happened. The ones that are TG may have subconsciously preferred men previously. But for the ones that were het males before the sudden change to suddenly stop preferring women and start preferring men seems off to me.
I get that there are really very few beautiful women that are lesbian (preferably LL) so stopgap measures may be used. I got lucky in finding that the girl I loved was actually a lesbian in hiding and that I pushed the same buttons in her that she pushed in me. Beautiful? Well, I think she was, as I was to her.
So I have to say that the current batch of new women that suddenly fall for a het guy just seems skewed to me.
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
I don't like to see sudden preference changes myself,
though I do have a preference for male love interests in the stories I read. I agree with you on that: it's one thing when the character has previous behavior or experiences that could represent a trans nature, another when they're cishet with no indication otherwise and suddenly the touch of a guy sends them all aflutter. While, yes, sexual orientation shift is definitely a Thing, or more openness to feelings in some cases, it's usually more of a slow-burn deal, not "oh, I'm wearing panties, where are the menfolk?"
As much as we like to think otherwise, there's a lot of misogyny in the trans community at times, mostly seen in the expectations of what being a man or woman means, and how that reflects on the behaviors you should exhibit as one or the other. Men should be Manly Men, women should be ultra-feminine and always want to wear dresses and skirts. It's silly . . . but it's a Thing.
A lot of that commentary above was meant to be tongue in cheek to a certain degree, but I do feel that (at least right now, on BCTS) lesbian stories are more popular, certainly in the gentler transformation or romance genres I prefer, and seem to garner better response from readers. Maybe that's a sign of the kind of audience that navigates toward the romance stories, I'm not sure, and it doesn't really matter: regardless of response there's room here for all, and its variety is what makes BCTS so great.
It's very easy to write a "bad" trans fiction story, regardless of what elements you use.
As for pretty lesbians, my experience is that attractiveness of someone has nothing to do with their sexuality, and more with our own. Maybe the problem with finding pretty lesbians isn't that they don't exist: maybe you're just incredibly picky :)
Melanie E.
More lesbian than straight stories
I am not seeing that at all. The pendulum right now seems to be mostly of the sort where the protagonist somehow likes men for whatever reason.
I get that authors project their own preferences. It will be interesting to get a tally of how many of each there is.
Selection bias may play into it and somehow the story type one does not prefer seems to stick to a person as being 'too many'.
An objective count is needed.
Anyway, agree totally with the sudden change in preference thing.
In real life, one does not change one's orientation that readily.
I have been post op for many years and still prefer other women in general. I am not claiming certain men are not physically amazing, the psychological compatibility thing is a lot harder to find in men, sorry but that is just the case.
Surprise regarding attraction
I did a count of transwomen attracted to women v. transwomen attracted to men characters in my own stories. Give or take a few, the ratio was around 11-9 lesbian versus attracted to male. While much of that can be attributed to my anthologies, which tend to be a bit more balanced attraction-wise, even though my preference is lesbian romance, some of my favorite characters of my own were married or dating guys. Go figure...
Love, Andrea Lena
The Story Flows As It Will
In a big percentage of my stories I don't fully understand my characters until I'm about 80% through the writing process. Whether the protagonist is ultimately lesbian or not is sometimes a surprise to me.
That is one of the reasons I can't write serials. I often have to go back and rewrite big chunks of the early chapters.
I'm in awe of those who write serials here and avoid continuity issues.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
The trick to serials is KISS
You either have to pre-plot and pre-write everything, or if you write it as you go along, resign yourself to the fact that you'll need to keep your central plot simple if you don't want to write yourself into a corner.
Both tacts -- write everything at once so you can go back and change, or sit in the here and now and let what happens happen -- have their advantages and disadvantages. I've done a bit of both, and find the latter more enjoyable in general, though the former gives more rewarding results.
Melanie E.
Ah... serials...
Love, Andrea Lena
No, I found mine
"Maybe the problem with finding pretty lesbians isn't that they don't exist: maybe you're just incredibly picky :)" If it is picky to know what you want and go after it, then yes I'm picky. I met her in the ninth grade upon my return from living in Belgium. My friends referred to her as plain, but as I said earlier, to me she was beautiful. She was a Morman, and dressed very plainly, wore no makeup, and had long dark blonde to soft light brown hair. We had a hair "encounter" in class and got to talking. She was intelligent and smart. I was immediately infatuated with her, and as it turned out later, she also was with me. It was just one of those things that grew and grew, well watered with love and respect.
No, my reference to not finding pretty lesbians has more to due to the unreasonable expections of a number of M2F people that expect to find a lesbian lover as they are commonly portrayed here. When was the last time the heroine of a story here on BC fell in love with a "plain Jane"? No, practically always the love interest is an attractive women that could have had any person they want with a "come hither" look.
My Robyn is a prime example of not judging a book by its cover. She was a warm, loving woman that loved me. While I encouraged her to spread her wings appearance-wise, I didn't try to force her to be anything other than she was. Thats the young woman I fell in love with, and that was just fine with me.
If there is any doubt please read my dedication to her on the right side of the cover page. I would have given my life to have been in her shoes that day and would have felt the trade well worth it.
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
Forced Feminzation Definition
It appears that this discussion has gone off like a pinwheel.
BC's current tagging uses a broad brush under which the male protagonist is forced to dress as a female against his will.
It appears the more specific definition of forced feminization literature would include dominace and sissification.
I think the general condemnation in this thread ignores that fact that every human endeavor is "forced" to some degree. We live according to societal decree and norms.
It would seem that if the purpose of the forced feminization in a story is not for humiliation based erotic pleasure it is not really forced feminization literature.
I've written a number of stories where the forced feminization is done as motivation to improve a person's life.
I currently have a serial running that is such a story.
Condemnation of a genre is slippery slope. If we start telling our authors that a certain kind of story is not acceptable and should "go away" -- where do we stop?
My guess is that 98% of the stories on BC would be considered "unacceptable" by a literary agent. I tried to get Peaches published by removing all the overt TG content. A literary agent told me that is was unacceptable because you could read between the lines at its erotic content.
I started this thread merely to throw out my experience regarding kudos, hits, and comments on stories tagged forced fem. I'm sorry it took such a turn bringing out calls for banning of topics.
Obviously everyone here has had personal experiences. Some of those personal experiences have left scars.
If a story bugs you -- don't read it.
I have a small library of several hundred books I've given up on due to offensive content. These are mainstream books that cost $15 to $35 a copy. I would imagine that I stop reading on about a third of the books I buy.
If a certain tag suggests the story won't be your cup of tea -- and you don't trust the author. Why open it?
But -- please don't try to tell authors what to write and please don't condemn readers for what they want to read.
I left Fictionmania because it became a home for primarily XXX and I stories. I felt dirty posting my stories next to them.
But -- I don't want to be surrounded by puppy dogs, kittens, rainbows, and sunsets.
Every once in while I love to read and write sweet stories.
But -- live isn't always sweet and stories should reflect reality.
I don't get paid to write stories here. I'm not about to change what I write to become commercially acceptable. That would be illogical.
I think stories in which the protagnist is forced into sisification are BORING. Reading a BORING story is it's own punishment. Writing a BORING story is its own punishment.
The rub comes in when one person's boring is another person's absolute delight.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I hope my comment didn't come across as condemning it.
Though I certainly did want to take the piss out of the number of people who are obviously reading it and not commenting a bit, all of my use of language that was demeaning was meant tongue in cheek, as examples of how readers themselves feel looking at it.
Ultimately, the only thing I take absolute umbrage to in anything I read is sexual activity without consent. That said, literature itself is not a depiction of real things happening, and interest in such things within literature is not indicative of a drive to force such things on others.
If it were, a great many authors over the last few thousand years would have been imprisoned on thought crime alone. Well, more than actually have been.
What people read is their choice. What people enjoy is their choice. Why they enjoy it is ultimately nobody's deal but their own.
Melanie E.
Check the times Melanie
I was writing mine while you were writing yours. I didn't see your comment until after posting mine.
My current story contains rape. Such is life.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Not ME! (At least I hope!)
I haven't noticed any put downs in this thread of the kind that might be construed as telling writers and readers they should stop what they are doing. Most are contributing their own personal feelings and discussing why the numbers for likes, comments, and reader counts are so off tilt.
I don't believe I have said or implied that those authors and readers are in any way wrong in what they are doing. I have expressed my personal opinions on FF stories. As long as they are properly identified then I have no beef with them, I skip over them and go on to the next story. As my brother always said, "Whatever floats your boat."
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
Fascinating discussion -- but, so what?
Having been keeping up with this, I am still confused as to what it all means.
I agree with Angela's (Jill's) original premise that FF stories garner more hits, fewer kudos, and way more negative (intentionally hurtful, mean, and non-constructive) comments.
So, I wound up posting Broken, Too! And I think it wound up being one of my worst stories because I worried about compromising too much. I stripped out the detail and glossed over a lot of things that would have brought the story to life--all in an attempt to water down the 'bad' things in it. To me, it resulted in a boring story--we will see what the readers think.
The lesson that I have learned from this thread is that I will likely keep writing more in the style that works for me and that I have fun at. I don't want to worry about twisting things so that I don't offend anyone--even if it is clearly marked--and get a bunch of negative comments. Believe it or not--they do hurt and I, for one, can't just ignore them.
Thanks for starting a great discussion, Jill!
HUGS!
S
Back to the Topic
Thank you Shauna for bringing it back to the question of what the readers prefer, even though we may never know why.
I have asked in previous blogs what attracts people and I am told it is the tags - TG Themes, TG Elements and Cautions, and maybe titles and subtitles. That makes sense, but I always have difficulty shoe-horning my stories into categories.
But all this discussion is about one theme which is not even on the list: "Forced Fem". The Themes listed are "Fem Dom" or "Physically forced" and on the list of elements is "Dominance and submission / Bondage". Those slots are quite clear.
People make the point that you can be forced by circumstance, like a prisoner accepting a protector in prison with conditions attached in my story "Cobra's Moll", but whatever definition you apply to Forced fem it must involve physical violence. I guess people get off on that.
As for Fem Dom that is a recognized fetish and has its own spot. Some people get off on that too.
I am here on Big Closet because I think readers here a better fit for my (generally) romantic stuff, but I don't mind mixing it up either.
Maryanne
My Two Cents
Some topics are looked over more than others. Topics that have a more purient story line seem to attract more readers or rereads, but don't get well reviewed. I find this to be true more on Fictionmania where anyone can count the number of hits a story receives.
It's very easy to post stories that are more adult and get thousands of hits. But, they remind me of sex without love. Once I've written something like this, it becomes a wham, bam, thank you, ma'am which leaves me unsatisfied.
I've written under several pseudonyms and kept my R and X rated stories seperate from Leslie stories. It's simple. I'm a good girl.
Forced masculinization
Forced masculinization is what almost every one of us had survived. And didn't like it at all. Because it was manipulation, brainwashing, blackmail, abuse, etc. You name it.
We check how it is on the other side of the fence when we see a proper tag. For the change that force may be sweet and dominated by love.
Forcing
Personally, I have never liked the idea, and avoid reading such tales. I have written one story that could be described as 'forced fem' (Sweat and Tears) and that was intended to depict the reality of such actions as utterly nasty.
The bulk of S and T is actually in keeping with most of my writing:
Build a solid principal character
Often make the real story about a 'secondary' character
Add in a trans strand, which may or may not be the main aspect of the plot--- see 'A Longer War' or 'The Job' as examples
Pile a load of crap onto someone in the story
Have them dug out by friends, family and love.
They all live happily ever after. Usually.
I suppose my main objection to FF, or the source of my distaste, is the application of 'and they all lived happily ever after' yo a story whigc is essentially a torture scenario. With my trans characters, I do my best to explore the different aspects.
Steph Jones can't work out why she is unhappy, until a revelation following a comment from a teacher.
Annie Price, Deb Wells, Suzy Lockwood, Sarah Powell, Alice Hill, Jill Carter, Sophie Laplace, are all like me, in that they know from their earliest self-awareness that they are not male.
Laura Evans is the same, with an added layer of severe mental illness.
The differences between them consist of their individual routes to a more authentic life, and those different routes, as well as the differences in character, are the way I find stories to write
About hit / read counter / kudos..
the hit and read counter does advance even if they just open it to check main content, that does not mean they did read it. I guess if one even bookmark it to remember it for whatever reason it does count.
In my opinion only comments reflect it well. I don't say it's easy to find a border what is forced and what not.
my poinst:
1. Childs has to be protected against any forced dressing, drugs or whatever other type of manipulation (including blackmail)
2. yes that page has content wich goes very near. And i want give to remember goverment US did force in Reallive female Hormones to a boy in prison..
3. As long as it stays fiction and it's not against kids and stays in legal limits, i don't say anythin personal to that stories.
4. What who reads thinks and so on is their own thing and we don't have to mess with it.
I just wish at least childprotection this includes until 17... will be respected.
regards