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I have another idea for a story I'd like to right but I'm thinking about doing an outline first.I'm thinking about choosing the story name, where i'd like it to go and what I'd like each chapter to accomplish and potential names for the chapters first then write it.For "Hell Yeah it hurts" I just thought up the premise and have been winging it ever since.Has anyone else outlined there story first and would you recomend it? Amy
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Occasionally
I outline. Not often. I tend to write whatever falls out of my fingers and through the keyboard.
When I outline, I do a VERY basic outline. Plot point A. Intro Character Q. Plot point B. I let the story write itself for the details.
I Almost Always Have An Outline
A good outline is like a good business plan. You shuld write it as if you're going to follow every word religiously, sweat the details. When you start writing the story you will come to know your characters better. you will start to see conflicts between them that advance the story that weren't apparent when you created you original outline. Simply revise your outline. It isn't the Constitution or the Ten Commandments. Some of the great books of our time were written by accident. A famous example is Moby Dick, which started out as one story and switched after the introduction to something completely different, when Melville realized how interesting a minor character seemed to be and made him his main character. Melville didn't bother to completely rewrite the intro for whatever reason so change of direction is there for all authors to consider.
More important to writing your story is your theme. What is it you want to say through your story? Perhaps you want to assert that love conquers all. There's nothing wrong with that; you can hardly go wrong with that theme. I've written several stories that had the theme that more people "know" about you than what you realize and are ready to support you if given the opportunity. I usually write the theme on a sticky note and stick it to the uppper right hand corner of my monitor to refer to during the entire writing process.
Rather than throw out another diatribe against serials I'll simply say this; I don't think I could write a serial. The skill required is far beyond what it takes to write a novel that you can revise right up until the time that you say Finis.
I view writing a lot like sculpturing. I start out with a rough draft and chisel away at it with redrafts for months and years before finding the actual story within.
So -- by all means start out with a plan. An outline is one way, but even more important is deciding the point you want to make, and then making sure everything in your story hammers home that point.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
The Talking Dog
My outlines come as a story first forms. Let's say I have an idea for a show biz story.
I'll write out:
PART I. Judy discovers her dog can talk, and sing beautifully. Comical amazement ensues.
This is the set up for all that follows.
PART II. Judy takes her dog to the amateur talent show, club gigs. It's small potatoes to start out with,
but they're both having a great time in this new exciting show biz life.
PART III. Dog becomes huge success, and to Judy's horror dumps her for a slick talking agent played
by Jon Lovitz.
PART IV. Judy is bitter and lonely for her dog, wishes she had never hatched her plan to make money
off of her best friend. And to make matters worse she's now the butt of has-been jokes. As her own life disintegrates, she watches as Fido's meteor rises. He gets his own TV show, she can't go anywhere without seeing that damn dog on magazines, commercials etc. She starts drinking heavily...
PART V. It's big news when the dog mysteriously vanishes. Judy worries, is he okay? The dog shows up at her door of her crappy little flat. Says he saw that he was losing himself, surrounded by phoneys and exploiters. Realized all he really wanted was to be a dog. Tearfully she hugs him, he licks her face. When they leave for the park to go play frisbee we know that everything is going to be just fine.
That's an outline. I'll work on each of these parts as a discrete unit. I might get Part One written to my satisfaction and decide to post it, I LOVE that feedback, but I run the risk that while writing Part Three
I'll get a really great idea for the story overall, but I can't put it in here without going back and giving it some sort of mention in Part One. OOPS! I made this mistake with HUMOR ME (I'm in the process of fixing it, but the sudden appearance of The Clown CIA is a far less elegant and believable solution than the one I might have come up with if I had I been more patient. Luckily it's a clown story, there's much leeway for silliness); so I was more careful, and MADE SURE I HAD THE ENDING AND A MAJOR PORTION OF THE MIDDLE PARTS WRITTEN before I posted Part One of this latest 4-part story...
~~~hugs, Laika
.
And if anyone wants my talking dog story they can have it.
"Government will only recognize 2 genders, male + female,
as assigned at birth-" (In his own words:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1lugbpMKDU
Mike Myers
In a touch of irony, Mike Myers plays the dog, which is a female. Thus the working title: Life's a Bitch.
The first scene establishes that Judy (Julia Stiles) is a lovable talent who has placed her fate in Jon Lovitz hands. She is ambitious, but just can't seem to catch a break. Inexplicably he is also her boyfriend. We find out not to far into the movie that Lovitz has intentionally held back her career, which he discloses to his partner, lovable Colin Firth. Lovitz draws massive multiple laughs from the audience throughout the movie with the catch phrase "negotiations" to explain how he has submarined her career time and time again by making outrageous demands of anyone who wants to hire her. Firth does his trademark one and/or two eyebrow raise and slow burn throughout the movie while the audience waits patiently for Stiles and Firth to couple and for Lovitz to get his come-upppance.
In the end, the dig gets to be a dog, Firth and Stiles unite as lovers and client/agent, and Stiles becomes a successful singer/songwriter/playwright/actor/dancer. She uses part of her new found riches to pay for SRS for the dog.
Lovitz is left without any clients and must take a job writing ad copy for Alpo.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
babe in the woods
Oh my God, they changed my story completely! My simple heartwarming tale of a girl and her dog...
And that vulgar new title! Who would have ever thought this would happen when I sold the rights
to it? What happened to "we want to stay true to your vision"? I TRUSTED them!!!
~~~sigh, Laika
"Government will only recognize 2 genders, male + female,
as assigned at birth-" (In his own words:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1lugbpMKDU
Green Lighted
I've got a pitch conference on this at twoish, I can bring up your concerns there, kid. But I think we have the green light at Miramax and we don't want to blow this for some crap like artistic integrity or something. It's going to be okay, you know, have I lied to you at any time since Tuesday?
Oh, it is Tuesday. I meant, last Tuesday, yeah, that's the ticket.
It's not Tuesday? WTF day is it?
::lol::
-- Donna Lamb, Flack
-- Donna Lamb, ex-Flack
Some of my books and stories are sold through DopplerPress to help support BigCloset. -- Donna
Everyone has a Share
"What's good for the company is good for you." - Milo Minderbinder
We're all going to come out of this rich. Now eat your chocolate-covered cotton.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I outline, anything longer than a few pages.
That said - I don't necessarily have the fully detailed outline day one. I know where I want to get. I identify the major milestones to gete there. Then, I start outlineing from the beginning. Sometimes my outlines can include fairly complete scene descriptions and the course of where I want dialog to go. Sometimes it's very sketchy (I've gotten in trouble with the sketchy ones). Then, I try to keep the outline 2-3 chapters in advance of where I'm writing. This allows me to drop hints in appropriate places, and do some useful foreshadowing (I think so anyway... Not sure really, as I've not gotten any comments that folk are picking up on them. *sighs* But, I'm trying anyway.). This applies to the completed story I started with (ewww, it's bad I see now, when I go back and look) and it's what I'm doing with Hidden Gifts.
I've also edited for authors that worked with and without outlines. Those that worked without them tended to run into "blocks" more often, and would write themselves into awkward corners more often. That's a big reason why I started writing using outlines.
I also tend to be kinda detail oriented (if most folks haven't noticed, at least one of my proofers has), and I tend to write a LOT of material that doesn't necessarily end up in the story. (Back stories for what came before, scenes where the protagonist isn't there to observe when I'm not doing multi-POV, and the like.)
My 2 cents - as a new writer.
Annette
I Have a Problem with Outlines
If I write an outline, I've written the story. If I've already written the story, why am I writing it again?
I do outline, but I do it in my head as I write the first chapter. I make a few notes of details I don't want to forget but I don't usually commit an outline to paper. Writing a novel my way is very hard, a novel is a lot to hold in your mind while you do all the other things you have to do while writing one.
Mostly the notes I write are character outlines. Like for Sledgehammer, I wrote notes about the backstory of the Two Freds, how they met, who their parents were. Much of that I worked into the story. I did have an outline in my head for a much longer story, a novella at least, but I reached a point in telling it where I had achieved the aim of the theme Angela spoke about. Telling more would be telling less, so I stopped and went back and rewrote some bits to increase the impact of the ending.
Sometimes telling a story involves knowing what part of the story not to tell.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Thirty Million Reasons
Erin -
If you would've written an outline for Thirty Million Reasons I might be less frustrated.
Frustration adds to high blood pressure, which is NO GOOD.
Unless your goal is to do me in, which is one alternative, we should work together to reduce my frstration -- at your pace, of course.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I had an outline
It just wasn't written down. When I got to the point where Kit was supposed to in the outline acquiesce a little more and admit some things to himself, he refused. That kid is in serious denial. :) Which totally blows away my plan for the rest of the story. I think the only solution at this time is to remove it from view while I do a complete rewrite to make Kit a little less reluctant. But I like Kit the way he is, he's a very complex character. This is what happens with writing a serial in public. Although, actually I didn't, I wrote almost all of 30 Million before posting any of it. I posted and rewrote as I posted trying to get past that sticking point by using the pressure of having an audience to focus my attention. Didn't work. Too many personal distractions going on at the time.
Sorry about that, but I have been chipping away at the stone now and then. It's not dead until I am. :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Flip-Flopper
Despite inane political references to the contrary, most of us change our minds over time. In some fiction stories that change is known as "growth".
The other thing you could do is sit Kit down and have a serious conversation. I've had to do this over the year. At one point in writing Hair Soup I had a heart to heart with one of the minor characters. She also refused to see things my way. At that time I was writing under the name Jill M I. I said, "Look, Angela Rasch, one of us in going to have to change. I'm the author and you're nothing but a character in a story, so guess which one of us that's going to be?"
Angela took a long look at me, and then laughed that calculated laugh I now use.
And that's sort of the truth. Besides, Kit is a nice name.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Outlines? We don't need no steenkin' outlines!
I'm kinda like Erin when it comes to outlines. Things just seem to work better if I have the outline in my head. I tried writing out an outline ... once. The story nearly died. It wasn't until I put that outline aside and took a break from writing the story for a while that inspiration started flowing again. Of course, this is just me and the way my particular muse works. Your mileage may vary. ;)
Writer--Artist--Dreamer
l
ABC's of story structure
I've written three novels without an outline, including Blue Moon that I wrote here last summer. What I do instead is use a story structure.
A. The intro, set-up the situation, introduce the characters
B. Complication, something is not as it seems, misinformation
C. First attempt at resolution fizzles leading to
D. More complication, things are worse than they seemed
E. First interlude, characters reflect on situation
F. Enter the sage, someone who seems to know what is going on
G. Leading to more complication
H. A possible change of direction, which may be a red herring
I. Acceleration, events begin to pile up
J. False climax, excitement reaches a head but no resolution
K. Second interlude, characters reflect on goals
L. Re-enter the anti-hero who has entered earlier disguised or not
M. New complications surface, excitement begins building again
N. False climax, a sub-plot reaches a head but isn't resolved
O. Interrupted interlude, no time to think
P. Crisis, all the elements are briefly visible before
Q. Climax, everything crashes, it looks like disaster
R. Optional interlude, time to make decisions
S. Pile on a few more complications
T. Resolution or second climax, the hero saves the world
U. Postlude while everyone figures out what just happened
V. Subplots unwind, resolved or not
W. The Kiss, the reader is rewarded with something they waited for
X. Optional Tease, is it really over? Punchline in comedies.
Y. There is no Y, it just is.
Z. Roll the credits ::grin::
Pacing varies. Some parts are several scenes or chapters long, especially early on. Later parts may be just brief scenes. Sometimes parts are left out or repeated or out of order or combined or intertwined with the parts on either side.
This is the structure of a movie script and it or variations of it have been used for fifty years or more by many, many people. Not to say that it's the structure of every successful movie, it isn't. Some of the best ones have unique structures.
Still, it's very useful.
-- Donna Lamb, Flack
-- Donna Lamb, ex-Flack
Some of my books and stories are sold through DopplerPress to help support BigCloset. -- Donna
Y?
Of course, Y is because we love you.
I've used much the same structure in developing many of my stories. The terminology is different (establishing the real world, establishing the otherly world, antagonist's helpers, villains) but the arcs are the same. For some reason most people like arcs to happen in threes.
I once read a book that advocated percentage of manuscript to spend on each level. The theory is the audience is so attune to this structure that they get impatient if the story stays in one segment too long. I think it was written by either Laika or Pavlov. For example: the set-up (real world) should not go beyond 2-5% of the total story. Think of a simple movie like "Big" and you can follow the bouncing ball through your structure.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Script-W
I've never seen such a detailed one but we covered structure like this in the script-writing classes I took in college. The instructor called it the Script W and explained that the excitement of a movie script followed an extended W graph, a W with a tail at each end. The third peak is the highest.
There were names and explanations for each element of this script W but I don't really remember them. Still, it is the structure you're describing, mixed with a little of Campbell's mythic terminology.
I guess I do something similar, really.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Calendar
I usually have a feel for where my story is going to go, and I'll frequently jot down the plot points I want to hit. For a couple of contest entries where there were limits on the size of a piece, I went into more detail in the outline so I could make sure what I wanted to say would fit. For some of my stories, I plot my outline to a calendar because the story needs to cover a particular amount of time.
For "Stephanie's Deal," I have a calendar with all the significant scheduled events and holidays laid out, and a few plot points, and I even have a rough idea of what dates I think the next few episodes are going to cover. For example, Episode 15 is going to start on Martin Luther King Day, and the following day her school is scheduled to reopen, and she does not have a dance class that week.