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First off. My last parent, my dad, is going in soon for surgery to have a tumor removed from his spine. Btw soon in Manitoba medical is NOT a good thing. It means they think it is serious.. He was told he has a 10% chance to walk again after surgery. For a man that hasn't sat still for very long unless sleeping this is not good news.
I refuse to cry.
Second there is many "experts" out there saying that you should only let your car warm up 30secs then drive it.
Okay that i think is downright fraud. Even an electric car needs some time to warm up or things wear out badly. In the case of a gas or diesel engine this is much more important.
Most cars have aluminum(or aluminum titanium alloy) pistons. These pistons when cold are NOT round but oval. It takes them a good 5 minutes to not be oval at temperatures below 0 c. Driving with oval pistons creates a lot of wear on cylinder walls and increases engine blow by significantly. Btw engine blow by makes more pollutants that regular exhaust.
PCV valves and ERG valves only work at IDLE. Not during regular running.
In electric motors that have much closer tolerances running cold causes very interesting things on electric windings.
Transmissions: New or old none of these like to run cold. Gears fatigue, seals bust, valvebodys dont shift, solenoids freeze up. shafts for belt drives get advanced wear... the list is endless. Running in neutral while engine warms up allows these to warm up as many cycle fluids in neutral without a load.
Btw to give you a better idea what actually happens during a cold run on engine. As soon as you put car into gear on a cold engine that piston slaps against one side of the cylinder.. over time, and I have seen this more than a few , the piston rod bends so that the piston is runnning on that side of cylinder.
The other side of cylinder can have cross patterns. When an engine is new or rebuilt the sides of a cylinder recieve a cross honed pattern. This allows the piston rings to seat(wear to match cylinder creating a better compression and therefore fuel burn)
New fuels, fuel systems, and or engine oil doesnt make a bit of difference on any of this.
Anyways just my rant on the "experts'" subject.
As a note my personal car that I have driven 17 years is as good as it is now as when I got it engine wise. I change oil regularly, I plug it in when not in use during winter, and I always let it warm up. Niether the engine or transmission have been rebuilt. And they dont need to be either. How many of you, who do not let your cars warm up, are driving the same car that you had for 17 years and have a good running engine and transmission?
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I wish your father a full recovery.
Perhaps you need to ask, did the doctors mean only a 10% chance of a full recovery? Or, a 10% of being able to move his legs at all?
There is a big difference. It could be that he may recover and just need a cane to use to walk. It depends on how the surgery goes and to make sure he has good physical therapy.
And keep in mind, it take time but nerves can regenerate and the nervous system can route its signals along the spine.
Hi Tels!
Sorry to hear about your Dad dear. I hope and pray all goes well with The surgery and after care ! Try to stay positive in thoughts. Loving Hugs Talia
huggles, Sis
I am praying for your dad, hon.
I feel for you tels
My dad just returned home this Wednesday from rehab after breaking his right leg above a knee replacement.
2 titanium plates, some time in a cast, lots of therapy and he is almost back to his old self. And I do mean old. He's 89.
But he has survived both knees being replaced, both eyes having artificial lenses inserted. A replacement aortic valve and so on.
Best of luck to your dad. I hope he proves to be a tough old bird and leads a good life after surgery.
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
Just a bit of clarification on engines and warm up...
Correct warm up is important but there is a world of difference for what is "correct" for current engines. Typical engine in a newer car which is under about 10 years for most European and Japanese manufacturers is just too efficient on idle. It is close to impossible to get engine to correct temperature running it on idle when it is -28C outside (as it is right now on the other side of my window). Car made 20 years ago took about 15 minutes to warm up in such conditions. Car made 10 years ago - about 30 to 40 minutes. Car made 3 years ago - first it has no temperature gauge for engine temperature. And it has electrical heater for the interior...
So you have no option than to start driving before it warmed up. And as you start driving it warms up quite fast. So you just need to be gentle for the first 3-5 km of your journey.
Another thing is - if the engine is really cold, controller will limit your RPM at much lower value then on warmed up engine.
And yet another thing is - nature makes you use your car correctly in cold weather: first you need to let it warm up a bit so you breath is not condensating into ice on the windshield, also usually you need to clean ice and snow from the outside of windows, then you have do drive carefully and gently as it is slippery on the roads.
about that
European, domestic, italian, japanese...makes no difference they all run about the same. The engine block hasnt changed in a 100 years. Same pistons, same crank, same type of firing. Different covering.
And no they are not any more efficient than any other internal combustion engine. Fuel management and spark have improved yes. Doesnt make a bit of difference on the engine itself.. Overall fuel effiency has changed yes. Engine not at all. Actually they are a bit worse now than those made in the late 60's.
Still the internal parts of the engine, the most important part, warms up as it is running. Putting a load on a cold engine is still causing a ton of wear. You want proof? Easy take a look at the amount of filings in your next oil change. There will be some if you drive an engine while cold before 5 mins. Ie that brownish grey looking sludge at the bottom of oil is the engine metal. The black is all from the blow by. And yes if you drive a vehicle like that there will be a good amount. Ive seen it on a 2015 toyota by someone driving like that...A nieghboor with a ford truck drives like that for a 2012 he has had two engine replacements....
But its your money your blowing out of your exhaust not mine so I dont care. I was just trying to help people.
Just a side note. I know of a car that was recently checked. This car has been driven only in the summer during warm temperatures. Has regular oil changes, and the original owner has always let it warm up at least five minutes. It passed current emission standards and gets about 30 mpg on the highway..twenty in the city. It has never been rebuilt and the car is in terrific shape..
It's a 1969 plymouth valiant with a 318.
Hope that your dad is lucky and tough!
As for a car, running it without warming up first, at least to some degree, is bad idea. A month ago I had my engine rebuilt. For a 25 years old car it is not that bad... (As a coincidence, I also have it for 17 years - got it second-hand from a company.) Almost never started moving without having it idle for at least 2 mins in the winter. Not enough to warm it up completely, but enough to have the oil inside moved and warmed a bit.
I am highly skeptic, however, that warming up the engine warms up also the transmission to a significant degree. (Unless they are a single block. In many models, esp. those with a front engine and RWD, they aren't.)
It is also news to me that aluminium pistons are oval at low temperatures. Are you sure about that?
very
its well documented.
I recently replaced my
I recently replaced my Pontiac Vibe. 296985 miles. Still running, with the original engine, and still within 10% of the original fuel economy. The reason for replacing is that the car is 14 years old, and everything is wearing out - seats, carpet, you name it. (both ends of both tie rods, struts, control arms, control arm bearings, intake manifold gasket, valve cover gasket, radio, a variety of other things) It has almost 300,000 miles on it! I've driven past the far side of the moon!. When it was below 50, I ran the engine until I felt warm air. That means that the engine got hot enough for the thermostatic relief valve to open and allow warm coolant to flow out of the top of the engine into the radiator. (No, it's not a thermostat. It doesn't set a temperature. It just opens and shuts _at_ a temperature range. It's a valve.)
The other thing is do NOT try doing run-and-gun for a few minutes. All of the lubricants need a chance to warm up and spread, not just those in the engine. Transmission, power steering fluid, brake fluid, grease around all the joints, etc.
Replacement? 4 year newer Pontiac Vibe with half the miles. I know I can get another four or five years out of it with just some minimal replacement part investment.
Oh - I just ordered an ozone generator. $70. Rental costs that I could locate were excessive, to say the least. That's going into the car once I get it fully detailed (all upholstery shampooed, etc. ), and I'll run it for two or three hours, at least thirty minutes of that with the engine going and the ventilation system on recirculate. Destroy all the old smells, including the smoke smell the dealer managed to cover up for a week after I got it.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
My dream is to have a car within 50% of claimed fuel economy...
Best to date was 11.5 liters per 100 km in combined city+highway mode (somwhere around 21 mpg) on a car that claims 40 mpg "combined" fuel efficiency on American web-sites...
And it is an improvement over 19 mpg I had in 100% city mode. And I bought that car new from the dealer. An yes on the highway I can drop fuel consumption to 10.5 liters per 100 km... 22.4 mpg...
And actually I am very satisfied with those numbers :-) My current car is most fuel efficient of my cars in the last 20 years and, at the same time, it is most powerful of the cars I ever owned :-)