TopShelf TG Fiction in the BigCloset!
Getting information for my stories, I came upon MtF pregnancy which might happen sooner. Another article was about a Chinese do or implanting an egg in a man, so I wonder if in 10 to 15 years from now a MtF will be able to be a mom... I hope so...
Comments...
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Comments
Ugh!
I imagine they'd have to surgically install an artificial uterus and real egg cells. Maybe fertilized eggs from someone else. Right now, I imagine a male-body pregnancy to approach the reproductive method in Alien. Or So I Heard. (Body Horror!)
-- Daphne Xu (a page of contents)
no... a real uterus and eggs...
I heard eggs can be made from cells and so is the uterus...I hope it will happen...
Living a thousand years? Boy...then I could say 'When I was your age...' to someone who is 400 years old... :-)
TGSine --958
Pregnancy
Eggs have implanted themselves in tissue other than the uterus, but I doubt such a pregnancy could come to term.
Uterine implants have been done, and I believe that there have been some live births. Since anti-rejection meds would damage the baby, I would have to guess that such a technique would be a one shot deal.
The most promising up-and-coming technology is bioprinting. That is, 3D printing using actual cells. Since the cells come from the patient, there are no rejection issues.
They have successfully printed a number of organs, including kidneys. Some have been implanted, though I don't believe that the kidneys are ready.
They have created and implanted vaginas (the tube, not the vulva.)
They have managed to create stem cells from adults, and have had some success in getting them to differentiate. More research needs to be done.
Twenty years? I would be surprised if we haven't successfully built and transplanted major organs by then.
Eventually, I expect that we will have the technology to replace just about anything but our brains. It's hard to guess when we'll be able to fix our worn out parts and be able to extend our lives indefinitely. My best guess is 30-50 years, but I have been surprised before. It might be that the first person to reach a thousand years of age is 70 or 80 right now.
I expect that, not too many decades from now, people will be changing gender or even turning themselves into furries or gargoyles or whatever just to try it on, and changing back if it doesn't fit. When that happens, our gender and race of birth will mean nothing. We will wear the bodies that we want.
Excuse me if I sound excited by the prospect.
oops...
Read my reply above... thousand years old...let's see what we can do on Mars... and a space station...
TGSine --958
Not yet.
Not yet.
Though, you need to check this thread out.
http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/blog-entry/54710/amazing-and-t...
While it deals with an AIS intersex person, it does have some interesting information in it. As an adult, person found out that she has a womb that was only millimeters in size. With hormone threapy, years later, her womb had grown to where she could have children. And she naturally had twin girls.
Also, research in artificial organ growing is coming along nicely.
So, to your question, I say. Not yet. But, the technology is very, very close.
Thanks for the reply...
That was a great article...
TGSine --958
You're welcome.
You're welcome. And it is amazing what is coming to light in medicine, in this present day and age.
Pregnancy
I've had this discussion with two doctor friends, one of whom is an obstetrician, and the truth is, no matter how good science gets, pregancy is much harder than it looks.
It's not just a matter of a functioning womb (as someone noted above, ectopic pregnancies are typically fatal to the foetus and the mother, so a womb is essential). It's the rest of the body that goes with it - and this includes the endocrine system. Not just progesterone and estrogen, but different kinds of estrogen, and there's strong evidence to suggest that there is a complex feedback system (which includes various glands and even the amygdala) that regulates thyroid activity and helps respond well to other triggers in the blood, releasing various other hormones not related to either androgens or estrogens.
For most XX women pregnancy is the single most stressful and difficult thing they can do with their body. My sister is five years older than I am, but looks at least 10 years older and I'm sure that's the stress of having borne two children. In even normal pregancies there's an increase in stress on the kidneys, the pancreas, the back, the bladder, the breasts, the vascular system, lots of other organs. The complications from pregnancy can include kidney problems, forms of diabetes, blood clots, you name it, and that's before actual childbirth. It's small wonder so many women died before good medical care.
A womb transplant from a donor wouldn't help - the anti-rejection drugs required to accept the transplant would be too problematic to allow a pregnancy even if an ethics committee determined it was okay (which is doubtful given the poor potential outcome for a successful pregnancy). Nobody's going to allow a foetus near a body with those kinds of immune system problems.
As Ray noted above, for an XY person to become pregnant, it's more likely that a 3D printed uterus developed from cells from the patients own stem cells offers the best prospect. But it would need to be accompanied by a more developed vascular network than we can currently generate, and the state of that medical science, while leaps and bounds ahead of where we were ten years ago, is still at least a decade away from sustainable organs with substantial blood vessels. Once we solve the heart and kidneys scientists might get some time to work on a womb. But there's no money in that while surrogacy is legal and more reliable.
Anyway, even if they do solve the womb problem, there is, as I say, the problem of a working fully developed endocrine model. It's likely that any patient would be hospitalised full time for the entire term so that the appropriate hormonal levels could be monitored and adjusted daily.
And, as I say, the ethics problem... Don't expect to see this in a major hospital soon. This is a country that only begrudgingly accepts stem-cell research at all.
But it's nice to dream. Although at 43 I'm too old even if they invented it tomorrow.
not as think as i smart i am
tranplanted womb has happened, and carried to term
but it WAS a relatives womb, an older aunt i believe, past menopause so she had no use for it. the younger woman carried to term, no drugs needed because of the familial closeness. it IS medically possible, right now as it has happened.
now for a MtF, it would not work unfortunately, unless they were intersex and enough of the "support" structure was there, other wise it would take a large amount of hormones, at the right amounts and times to make it work. think of a real test tube baby, one created outside a human body.
Teresa L.
Teresa L.
Ectopic pregnancy
As Rebecca writes: It's not just a matter of a functioning womb (as someone noted above, ectopic pregnancies are typically fatal to the foetus and the mother, so a womb is essential).
That's certainly true. It's what killed my mother and my potential sibling back in 1944, unfortunately before we had a universal free health service.
However, I'm sure I read somewhere several years ago about a fertilised egg transplanted into an XY individual which was brought to term and delivered by caesarian section. It may either be my imagination or, if not, perhaps that of the writer at the time.
Robi
Pregnancy
If you want to put an egg into a transplanted womb and expect that person to get pregnant, I would say, impossible. Unless that person is already female. Then again, you need to take account the organ rejection problem, which makes it feasible from mother to daughter only. If a doctor say that he can put the womb of a stranger into a man's body and that man can give birth, run far away, because that man will bleed to death before it can even be tested.
If you want to say that a person with XXY chromosomes who has a vagina but the only functional system is the penis to be able to take implanted eggs, I'd say, it's possible, eventually, but that will be quite far in the future.
You see, everything we learned so far were wrong. Chromosomes (XX, XY) are not the determinants of gender. They are merely indicators, for us who had not discovered DNA mapping yet. Whether a person becomes XX or XY, it depends on two genes, FOX1 and SOX9. I forgot what each one did, but basically, a dominant FOX1 or SOX9 determines what your chromosomes become.
There were already tests done to rats and it proved to be true. Male rats became female rats, down to the genetic level, and vice versa. They just couldn't get them to breed and they died very quickly due to cancer. Critics say that eventhough the sperm looked like an ovum, it wasn't actually ovum, so even if they tried to breed, they can't. But secondary sexual characteristics, such as development of ovary, breasts and other stuff could happen. The rats did develop ovary, ovum, testes and penis when they changed sex after all.
yes and no
they can take a fetus and transplant it into a trans woman's body, birth by caesarian section.
transplanted ovaries and uterus, been done a few times now. 1 cis woman did conceive and give birth, within the last year, because of this.
the stem cell research is promising, but unlikely to be made available any time soon.
doctors are doubtful ANY trans woman could have "natural" childbirth, they doubt that the needed muscles to push the baby out are in place in the trans woman's body.
Stupidity is a capital offense. A summary not indictable.
Here is some more information.
doctors are doubtful ANY trans woman could have "natural" childbirth, they doubt that the needed muscles to push the baby out are in place in the trans woman's body.
Actually, the uterus is the major muscle used for childbirth.
Also, I just read this article today. That may have some bearing on the subject.
Woman who couldn't have sex gets artificial vagina made from PIG intestine
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2952095/Woman-coul...
PIG intestine
I hope the women wasn't a Muslim...:-).
TGSine --958
How soon?
Today? Not unless the individual had the needed "bits" inside. Longer term? Possibly.
If memory serves, there was a study (15-20 years ago, I think) where an embryo was implanted and allowed to grow for a few weeks in the abdomen of a male gorilla.
There have been advances in "growing" organs (or parts of them).
So, either approach conceivably could eventually be made to work. That is, use the person's existing "plumbing" and "attach" to a blood supply (not quite within current tech, or at least never been tested). The end result would likely (for a long time) require a lot of bed-rest for the "parent" as well as the equivalent of a C-section.
The second approach (grown the uterus and put it in place; then implant) is probably further away.
Again, the exception being like the case in the UK where they found the undeveloped uterus, just waiting to grow up.
Annette
Actually, if you reverse the steps, it becomes possible.
The second approach (grown the uterus and put it in place; then implant) is probably further away.
Actually, if you reverse your steps, where the uterus is grown, to a few millimeters, then implanted, then grown to maturity. Doing so in that order sidesteps a lot of problems. Mainly dealing with growing a organ to maturity in the lab, while keeping it viable for implantation, and the surgical dangers of adding a fulling formed organ to a person's vascular system.
It is a lot easier to just grown something the size of a grain of sand, in a lab. Implant it, maybe as an out patient procedure, with just a needle like tool. Then, use drugs to have the organ mature over years. Allowing, the vascular system to form around organ, naturally.
Basically, the article I linked to, above, is about a AIS woman that found out she had a uterus that was a few millimeters in size. She took hormone drugs for years, and her uterus grew to maturity. She then used IVF to become pregnant with twin girls, which delivered naturally. With the girls, and her, still healthy.
This woman's medical case is a proof in concept of solving several of the problems stated in this thread. Though, not all the problems.
Paul Linebarger
Better known as Cordwainer Smith
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crime_and_the_Glory_of_Comm...
'It's tough to make predictions - especially about the future'
;-)
The longer I live, the more I realize people in the past had no real clue about the future.
I wouldn't let 'conventional improbability' stand in the way of a compelling story.
If the people of the past had their way, we'd all be taking our flying cars to weekends on the moon, but none of us would have smartphones.
John Varley. Ian M Banks and many others have created many compelling worlds where gender was just another of life's choices. I think you should join them.
As for congruence with future events, the only thing I can say with any degree of confidence about the future, is that it will exceed our imaginations.
I say, write from the heart. Let the heads catch up. ;-)