I went to an online chat (IMVU, if you care to know the name) and decided to visit a christian room and get some prayer support. Unfortunately, one of the people there noticed my avatar was wearing a TG symbol, and asked me about it. I tried to explain my history, how I felt. Her response was to tell me i needed deliverance from a demon. I told her how i had prayed about this since i became a christian, prayed, begged, cried. How i even tried to kill myself, and even asked God to kill me rather than let me offend Him. How i finally reached the point where i had to accept what I am. She just repeated what she had said, and said i was refusing to be helped. It hurt. It hurt a lot. I am still hurting from it.
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Comments
It's a sad fact
It's a sad fact that the world is full of bigots, with TG issues at the top of their hit list. They have been brought up to believe that being TG is unnatural and evil. Forgive them, and tell them you forgive them.
I admire your courage in openly displaying your convictions.
I'm afraid I am still in the closet.
my heart goes out to you.
I went through a phase of my life where I sought out religion because I was sure I was possessed.
The overwhelming NEED to be female was driving me insane.
I sought out religious help... but of course I couldn't tell them for fear I'd be exposed for the perverted sex offender I must have been.
It was a very difficult time for me. I eventually realised I was using religion as a crutch to support myself by removing the 'blame' from me. It must be a demon because I'm really a nice guy. My 'urges' drove me to crossdress over and over again getting caught multiple times.
I began to realise I was allowing some rules imposed by others to control my life. Now you have to realise I come from a poor family who lived miles and miles from town. I took my view of right and wrong from the people my mother trusted. These people were church going people. I tried to live in their rule for everything world.
I just could not accept that I was possessed by a demon. I eventually gave up on religion and began to stand up for myself. It took me many many years (more than 10) before I got to college and began researching TSism away from my mother (single parent).
Hang in there. I'm not saying religion is bad... I'm saying it wasn't right for me.
remember this important rule...
If at first you don't succeed... fuck it! *laugh*
Nobody.
No you aren't demon
No you aren't demon possessed (in my opinion and it's as good as hers!)
There was a discussion in TG-Christians a while back about "welcoming and affirming" chat rooms,but for the live of me,I can't find it.
Oh,if you aren't a member of TG-Christians on yahoo, you should join. It truly has a warm and supportive group there.
Janice
Demonology 101
When someone accuses me of being possessed of a demon, I say, "I'll show you yours if you show me mine." Some of them never do get it.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Dorothy, sometimes people just want us to be like them!
Their minds are closed to anything else. Jesus did not teach that we were wrong, or possesed, or anything like that. He taught forgiveness and love. Just because it has become fashionable for us to ignore his teachings and interpret things the way we want, people tend to get a bit thick headed. I think that some parts of the Bible are intentionally vague. He did say something about "the wise man will understand", which is not the exact wording, but y'all know what I mean.
To me this just prooves that people, on a whole, are idiots.
Let this flow off of you. She was just showing her stupidity. Jesus might not have approved (especially at that point in history), but I really don't think he would condemn, either. He taught forgiveness, so we should forgive her, too. Surely, it ain't her fault she's stupid.
Lots of love, seetie!
Wren
Ask a silly question...
Is this anything to do with, 'Possession is nine points of the law'? Can you be done for possession? Ignore them for seeing the world through stone age eyes - this is the C21st, leave the cave men behind, they still think the earth is flat.
Angharad
Angharad
No
Next question.
Diversophobia
Who cares if it's not in the dictionaries - it's the root cause of most prejudice and hate - the fear of someone you perceive as 'different'.
As with any religion (and none), Christianity has its share of conservatives (generally those that yearn for a return to the societal setup of the 1950s and earlier) and liberals (who are more tolerant of a diverse society). Unfortunately, the conservatives generally have the loudest voice, and (like much of the media) view the world in purely black and white terms. Either you're pure and angelic and destined for heaven, or you're a deviant who's condemned to the fiery pits of hell for eternity. Conservatives have this weird notion that extensive "fire and brimstone" lectures will actually "convert" those they consider "deviants" to "the straight and narrow" (and no doubt in delivering these lectures, they think they're doing a good deed and increasing their chances of "going up" when they die)...
It's hard, but if you encounter such types, ignore them or walk away. You stand about as much chance of enlightening them as they do of persuading you to abandon your quest.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't...
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
Two Types of People
There are two types of people in the world, the righteous and the non-righteous. The classifying is done by the righteous.
Or maybe that should be the self-righteous.
I think many of the so-called Christians would be appalled at Jesus and label him as "un-chistian", by their viewpoint, if they met him in today's world. They seem to like to judge other people but seem to forget to evaluate their own behavior.
Please allow your religion to comfort and guide you and forgive the idiots for they know not what they do.
God bless,
Michelle
Michelle B
You are not a demon
You just happened to reach some un-human christians. You do have my , and I think all ours here, blessing. Had you been here in Sweden I would have taken you to the Church of Sweden(CoS) to get the true blessing there even in a full service.
I did have some thoughts about this before I set out for the transition. Luckily I have a prist in the CoS in the enlarged family. I asked him it the church would recognise my baptist as a chile if I changed my name and gender. He then told me that he had led a service where this was done in the Church. But he also told me that that was not necessary for my relation the the Church and the belief that I have had since childhood. As religion do not know any national border this must be valid for you as well.
Ginnie
GinnieG
Why would you want to be a part of any group
That see you as the enemy?
Either find a group that is inclusive right up front plain and simple or don't bother, unless you deep down like the abuse.
I am sure you do not like the abuse. I left because their doctrine was to teach people to fear and hate people like me. How could I do Gods work if I am taught to fear and hate myself?
If you are near any decent sized city there are Metropolitan Community Churches, MCC. They are not a gay church but are comprised of mostly gay people, they are accepting of all alternative lifestyles and are christian based. Although I am not a christian I have rarely felt more accepted and loved and in the presence of God and God-loving people than in an MCC church.
Also the Unitarians, The UU's are non denominational and very accepting.
well, duh.
So... somebody you DON'T know, in some anonymous chatroom, said something hurtful? Well, hey, there's a shocker. Because, you know, any internet chatroom that advertises itself as Christian will just NATURALLY be full of tolerance and goodwill and rainbows, right?
Would you walk up to a stranger on the street and pour out your troubles -- and then accept their judgement on the validity of your pain?
Sorry, but you brought that upon yourself. I'm sure you can find welcoming online communities on the webz -- there's one on the tip of my tongue, it'll come to me, Big Shelf something something, I think it is -- but some random so-called Christian chatroom in IMVU isn't going to be one of them. Now you know.
I'm really, really sorry you're hurting. I know I can't begin to understand your pain. I don't want you to hurt. But this was self-inflicted.
"Doctor, Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"
"THEN STOP DOING IT!"
A little harsh
While what you said is accurate - one shouldn't let the comments of a random stranger bother them - it's more than a little harsh to say it in such a way as to put even more blame on someone who is already hurting.
Not harsh at all!
Misty is absolutely correct and presented it just right!
I didn't comment previously because Misty already said it.
Mr. Ram
Wrong.
You may agree with Misty's opinion, but that doesn't mean other people agree with it, or that they don't have good reason to disagree.
Dorothy didn't randomly walk up to someone she didn't know and "pour out her troubles", as Misty put it. The other person initiated the conversation, the other person asked about it, and the other person decided to be judgmental after hearing it, despite the fact that Christians are not supposed to judge others.
This was not self-inflicted. Dorothy left herself open to being hurt, but the other person is the one who chose to be hurtful. Dorothy's mistake was in telling someone she didn't know about her problems, but it does not follow that the person's reaction was therefore her fault. She could just as easily have run into someone open-minded or understanding enough to really talk about it, or at least sensible enough to not say something hurtful.
That is why I said Misty's comment was too harsh, and I'm standing by what I said.
Demon Possessed, an old idea.
Dear Dorothy:
I am so sorry that this happened to you. If you are gonna go to Christian sites, never reveal that you ar TG. It took me several experiences with that to learn. Even in the Psych area of about.com once I revealed that, they stopped talking. So, now I will talk about some feelings but never reveal the rest. It is their weakness not ours.
I first really really found out about being T in the mid 80's, went to counseling, was told I had Gender Dysphoria, with my wife present. We were so close; took showers together; Docs said we were too close. My wife and I even had the conversation at the time. You know the one, "Gwinn, I love you with all my heart, but I am not a Lesbian, so if you have to be a woman, then I have to leave. At the time, the revelation was horrible; life ending. We vowed to pray it away. I went to every major event I could find, where the big guys were. There was Benny Henn, Billy Graham, and I even had my pastor do a Demon Exorcism. Well, we all know that none of that works.
By the late 90's I felt caught in a huge dilemma. I knew that I loved my family with all my heart, soul, mind and body, but there was something in me that just demanded ever more stridently every day. by 2000, I was living two lives. I'd been through several clothing purges; something most of us do. It was horrible to struggle with being a woman when everyone was gone and then having to revert to being macho man when they were there.
Then Mr Freud took over. I was hiding everything so well, but my some stupid act of my own, it was all revealed to the family. By that time I was on so many psych drugs that I could not fight back.
So, the short answer to your question, is if you are demon possessed, then I am too, and I doubt it very much.
Much peace
Khadijah
Wearing a Bullseye
Whether you did it conciously or not, wearing a transgender symbol into a chatroom like that is deliberately baiting them. You may as well announce your status the moment you walk through the door.
My feeling is like watching someone deliberately stepping in front of a speeding bus. "I was not paying attention" you still were deliberate in stepping off of the curb without looking first.
I know the bus is unable to stop, its not worth getting up to help because I cannot do a thing to prevent it. I feel sorry for the driver of the bus; he is unable to help himself. As for the person stepping in front of the bus I can only question why did they do it?
If I wear a penticle out into a christian church I deserve all the ill will focused on me, not because I am a bad person but because I knew beforehand the interpretation and reaction it would provoke. If I then come here and tell my tale of woe I am getting something more out of it. Even if only support.
I am not trying to be mean to you, the demon in you is the one that feigned forgetfulness (innocence)going into the chat room and got you attention and abuse and then confessing to it here for support.
Dorothy, it can become a cycle without knowing it. Please be purposeful in what you do because in the real world outside of chat rooms you may walk in to the wrong place and the abuse will be real and very physical, no amount of support here could make you feel better if that happens. I would not want that to happen to you.
Try wearing a Hijab into a Christian Church !
It is really funny to see the initial reaction, but when I smile at them and pop some one liners, most become at least civil.
Merry Christmas
Khadijah
Do you know Dorothy
Do you know Dorothy personally? Do you know that she has done things like this before, or are you assuming that she has?
The term is "negligent", by the way. As in, "you still were negligent in..." or "watching someone negligently..." Deliberate/deliberately is not appropriate here at all, unless you know for a fact that it was so.
Unless you know, for a fact, that Dorothy was feigning ignorance, you should refrain from making such a statement. And you should absolutely avoid quips like "the demon in you", as turns of phrase such as that are neither tasteful nor appropriate in situations such as this.
You do have a good point, by the way. People need to be careful about what they do in order to avoid negligence. You just need to be more careful in how you say it.
Problems with that conclusion
First off, you shouldn't assume that just because you're in a Christian room, that everyone there is actually going to embody the spirit of Christ. They might call themselves Christians, they might even believe it, but they've forgotten "what one does to the least of these, one does to me", if they ever learned it. Yes, that's paraphrased from the original quote, but I believe it preserves the meaning.
Second, there are a number of people who believe demon-possession exists. However, I would wager real money that none of those people have anything but the stories in the Bible (nearly two thousand years old now) and apocryphal stories retold from "eyewitness" accounts. Furthermore, statements like "demon-possessed" and "the devil made me do it" are excuses, not reasons. They give people the excuse that they themselves are not responsible for these things, that it's something else that they have no control over that's causing it.
One of the ways by which I determine how likely something to be true is how much the explanation requires one to take responsibility for one's actions. Demon-possession utterly fails that test; furthermore, it is often a way for another person to show that they are "better", because they were able to identify the "demon-possession" and have thus set themselves in a higher position.
Finally, the "demon-possession" explanation comes from a time when people did not understand things like mental illnesses. It was a lot easier to say someone was demon-ridden if they, say, got extremely angry for no reason, or were supremely depressed, or whatever, than it was to actually try to understand what might be causing them to react that way. And like many things, it was used as a catch-all explanation because of the times the "solutions" actually worked.
So, no. I wouldn't trust what some random person in a chatroom says about demon-possession. You have no idea who that person is, what they're actually there for, whether they actually have any theological training, etc, so they are not trustworthy. If you really need a counselor, you should see about finding someone you can trust in the real world, preferably someone who has education and training to back it up.
Agreed
I feel that most people are directing their feelings of insecurity at you. All too often people's reason is "because it is in the bible, or against the bible" etc. If pressed for where that may be they are without much support. Essentially their cloak of rightiousness in the form of religion and the bible is a universal barrier against their insecurities and predjudaces. Lacking a good intellectual argument they call upon a higher authority. If they think it is wrong, there must be something in the bible to support it. Sad and sick. Its a book, it was written and rewritten by men, interpreted, revised, politicized and bastardized by men several times many generations after the time of their christ. Even if the Gods themselves had come to earth and dictated the original word for word it bears little resemblance to the original. Its still a good book. It is the people who use it as a weapon that are bad.
A bit too complicated
The simplest way to put it is, "Even the devil can quote scripture".
The Bible is not in and of itself good or evil (no matter that many call it the Good Book, it's still fundamentally a book that can be interpreted in a number of ways). It's the use to which it's put that is good or evil.
And I consider saying that someone is demon-ridden because they are transgendered to be stupid and ignorant (neither of which result in anything remotely resembling "good"). People once believed that left-handedness was evil ("sinister", often used to refer to evil, derives from sinestra, the Latin word for "left"), but that does not mean it has any basis in reality.
I agree with that
In effect, people of the same faith would use whatever trigger word that is most effective. If you believe in the christian devil then saying something that implies a connection with such inspires the fear, guilt etc. It is a good book, a brilliant blueprint for civilizing a world. It is a verbal picture book of examples to communicate fundemental truths that will make sense to even the most ignorant and hopefully appeal to some internal sense of justice and the right way to do things. It is no more evil than a knife. The one who wields it determines its use.
I AM a Christian
Dorothy,
I am a christian! I do not attend church services because most people there are to used to being told "What God is saying here is....." and to lazy to read the entire chapter that the damning quotes come from.
God is about love, loving, happiness born from love. My love is for all. I help those that I can and pray for those that need it. I truly believe that God does judge all based on thier love. For His "Christians" to judge others is a sin that they shall be judged by and the amount of pain that thier judgement has caused. "judge not lest ye be judged"
You not demon possesed!! You are just looking in the wrong places to find the love that is there for you. Look to your heart, what is there is you and to love that in all of it's flaws is what HE loves! Not something the Southern Baptist want or ANY outher "religious group" wants you to be.
They ALL tend to forget John 3:16. THAT is the clear way. That is HIS accepting that we are NOT perfect. HE gives us freel will to accept HIM!!
Love yourself for who you are. Laugh at "thier" missuse of HIS word, as thier misuse has caused many wars and much death and is ugly in HIS eyes while loving and accepting others without judgement is beautiful in his eyes.
If you wish to understand Gods LACK of judgement read Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John the NEW testement. Christ is more than a little miffed at the judgement of the others.
Peace be with you Dorothy you are an inspiration with your writings. Know that their are real Christians that do and will love you
James
As a Christian, I would also
Samirah M. Johnstone
Demon possessed if you want it to be
RAMI
Dear Dorothy:
I am not a Christian, as is evident by two of my stories and several of my posts. Therefore, I cannot comment from a Christian prospective. Additionally, I lack the knowledge of the Christiam thought regarding whether demons actually exist, and if they do, what their role in the world is.
While concepts of demons exist in Judaism, and there are stories about demons being able to take control of a body requiring the demon to be purged, those concepts are of minor importance, have been refuted or minimized by the greatest of sages, and today are more in the way of bubamatsivahs (old wives tales) then accepted in reality. There is a concept in Judaism of the Yatzer Tov - Good Inclination and the Yatzer Ha'ara - Evil Inclination, but the Yatzer Ha'ara is not considered by most to be a demon, but more the evil or bad action when give free will to choose.
A person can only be possessed my a demon, if you beleive in demons in the first place. If there is no demon, it can not posses you or take charge of your life.
So you must first decide if you beleive in demons on a personal basis, as opposed to a demon eg. Satan who causes evil in the entire world. If you do not beleive in the demon, then ignore the idiot who attacked you and go on with your life. Find a more reseptive web site to visit and a more accepting church.
If howver,you do hold such beliefs, then you must decide if you are willing to allow that demon to take charge of you, or if you have the strength to fight it. Fight the demon and kick him out.
But I do not think that that is necessary, since I beleive that to whatever extent you are trnsgendered, it is not caused by a foreign body, but by your entire makeup.
RAMI
RAMI
Say gang, let's put on an Exorcism!
We're a pretty smart bunch, representing a vast variety of faiths and/or intellectual viewpoints, and I'm sure between the lot of us we can get that evil demon out of our sister Dorothy. It's a demon called SHAME, contracted from having experienced horrors that were no fault of her own, and that erodes someone's sense of worth to a point where she's tempted to listen to the ranting of bigoted idiots, people quick to diagnose them (and probably the rest of us too) as having a demon in them because they're different in a way that the ranter has absolutely no knowledge of, doesn't understand and doesn't want too, content to just call it the work of Satan ....... Dorothy you're okay. You're a beautiful, loving and compassionate Christian woman, who I am sure God loves; And it seems to me if someone DID have a demon they wouldn't act like you, but it would manifest itself as hate, judgement, prejudice, the general lack of humility of those who are sure they know what God's will is for everyone else, and a paranoid cosmology that sees demons in everyone they disagree with and anything they don't understand...
~~~big hugs! Veronica
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Religion and mental illness
I believe that when a person becomes extreme in their religious belief it is a sure sign of mental illness. It doesn't matter which brand of religion it is just that it is practiced to extreme with unfair consequences to self and others. I think they are in need of a good shrink to help them repossess their sanity.
When extreme views become Mental Illness.
I agree with you and for a long time I bought into those views because there was so much inner turmoil in my own head, that subconsciously I felt I needed rigid, confining rules to keep the woman within me controlled and captive. I am still very religious but the test of time, and 4 years of very intense psychotherapy, has removed the extremisim.
Much peace
Khadijah