Why is it many discussions regarding transitioning seem to careen off into nonsense?
What compels us to argue over whether or not a person can reassign their gender without having surgery? I suppose it’s a logical extension of the internal battle we’ve waged since first becoming aware of our gender dilemma.
But . . . do we have to go the route of Frank Butler and Annie Oakley?
Here’s a verse from their famous duet:
Anything you can wear
I can wear better.
In what you wear
I'd look better than you.
By the way, in my humble opinion I’m way up the F side of the spectrum from Ethel Merman. I never found her brassy approach all that attractive.
Jill
Comments
Reassignment
I don't think it's about our own views on reassignment. After all, we each know exactly who and what we are. The problems come from all those other people who insist on having their own ideas on who and what we are, and what they think we should be allowed to do about it.
Sometimes we might feel that we have to go way to the other extreme just so that others view us in the proper light. Not sure about that approach myself. I'd rather just be invisible in the background, but I suspect that's rather unlikely to happen.
Penny
We all have our views, including them.
I got rumbled the other day in a Bathroom, and was thankful that I could have revealed my bits if pushed. I am usually very chatty in the Loo; most women are. But that day I was just sort of ill and did not say anything and did not pay attention to my facial expression.
She did not say anything, and I wonder why she did not. Perhaps she could not smell the Testosterone? I was in the Loo one time when a man actually walked into the women's, and stood there. He had a confused look on his face, and then he got all embarassed. "OOPs, wrong one, no urninals, sorry", and then he fled.
We need to try to see all sides of the issue. As a freshly "out" T girl, it was important to me to be able to use the women's; something I had now forgotten until reminded of it this morning. I guess, I don't have an opinion on using the women's now. I am confused. Now I have to rush off and type a retraction to another post.
Khadijah
Hmmm...sounds familiar...
but some girls are more equal than others.
Georgette Orwell,
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
You and Angela
are just too funny!
I was a member of a CD forum many years ago. Someone left a comment one day that "she" passed better than her wife. The problem was, it seemed I was the only one that thought the comment was ludicrous.
Whether you liked Ethyl Merman or not you had to admire her lungs. In her early years her ability to fill a theatre with sound was a real asset. I wonder how she'd have done if she had entered the International Hog Calling contest. Her voice had all the feminine sex appeal of Minnie Pearl.
I have bad memories of the musical Annie Get Your Gun. I played 2nd reeds in the pit band for it once, long ago. Because of a scheduling conflct we only got one orchestra rehearsal, and no dress rehearsal with the cast. So on opening night, there I was playing a real fast number on the bari sax in a very challenging key, got to the end of the page, flipped it over, and found myself, with no rests, playing flute! Talk about surprised!
No you caaaan't...
Yes I caaaan...
The scene (and Irving Berlin's music) fit the story well.
But, you aren't talking about "Annie, Get your Gun"... You're talking about us. You're also talking (whether you mean to or not, though I suspect you do mean to as you commonly write on many levels) about society's perception/acceptance of us.
Just like none of us are the same, I don't think there's any one answer.
Some of us don't need any surgery, or even need to transition. Their own knowledge/understanding of who they are is sufficient. It doesn't bother them whether the rest of the world knows the inner person. Others, need to live in a way that the world can see them as the gender they have. Some of these need surgeries - both to help the world accept them, and to accept that they're not just playing dress-up. What surgery (if any) each of us needs will be different.
I think this very variation is one of the things that so confuses those around us. They like "simple" answers. When we don't fit their simple answers, they're uncomfortable and as a result things become difficult.
As to why transitioning discussions go off into nonsense... There are probably as many directions and reasons as there are people that care about the topic.
Anne
One Sigh Fits All -- Annette
It's really up to the individual. That's the ticket.
Maybe it always seems to be awkward when we try to explain ourselves because there's no real reason to explain ourselves.
No one asks me why I have brown eyes. If I went on and on about why my little finger is slightly shorter than most peoples' I would expect yawns. I have intense desires that are usually associated with people of another gender. That's just me.
Annette -- I really think we would be good friends if we ever met.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
You have a point...
On the friendship bit... We don't agree on everything, which is a good thing, but we seem to both think about things - and are willing to listen. (Two keys to a successful friendship)..
Now that' I've gotten the mutual admiration bit out of the way... :-)
You're right on the awkward bit. Though, from personal experience, I can only point to one person that took my "revelation" poorly - so far (my brother) and two others that would rather ignore it (my parents)... But, since they live over 1,000 miles away... I guess they can try to ignore it. Beyond that - it's been a non-event with everyone I've outed myself to... (Yeah, I keep expecting the other shoe to drop...) Time will tell.
*sighs* (there's my sigh today, you can compare it to yours and see how it fits...
Anne
Anne - If the Pshaw Fits!!
Unfortunately I can't show you how well it fits because my ego left in a huff once I read the part about you not agreeing with everything I say.
I just can't stand that sort of character flaw in people.
Now I don't have an ego and feel like half the person I used to be.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
ROFL
Is that what happened to my bruised ego.. It got run over by yours going off in a huff...
Somehow, I suspect your ego managed to find you again, by now... On the other shoe, I've many character flaws... Or so I've been told.
Anne
I actually witnessed that....I even took pictures...
in her 1954 Huff Roadster
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
And here she is again
The famous Angela in her Huffmobile by Tamara de Lempicka, from my private collection:
http://www.artwallpapers.net/paintings/tamara_de_lempicka/03...
(Until 1940 there actually was a car company called Huppmobile,
but the only good thing about them was their silly name;
Not worth a link or a picture...)
What borders on pure insanity?
Canada and Mexico.
.
Gender and sex are the problem
People confuse the two because they overlap in lots of ways and the response of many is as much visceral as intellectual, possibly more so. Men and women on an unconscious level see the opposite sex as potential mates and their own as rivals, and that rivalry includes perhaps projecting their own inadequacies on others.
As for how far each of us needs to go in pursuing our peace of mind - how long's a piece of string? I've gone as far as I needed to go by changing my genitalia into a more acceptable form and growing breasts because I saw myself as female and wanted everyone else to be in no doubt about it. I felt happier in myself too as a consequence. To me the surgery was a step on a road to living the rest of my life as I wished, not an end in itself.
Would I have had facial surgery and boob enhancements etc? I doubt it, because I think it tends to make one feel there's always something that can be improved with a surgical tweak here or there and one would probably end up looking like Sly Stallone's mum or one of the other plastic surgery victims. Then perhaps one has to consider if some form of dysmorphophobia is the correct diagnosis rather than gender dysphoria, plus a degree of narcissism or self-absorption.
Angharad
Angharad
Men are from Mars, Women are from Snickers
I too felt that I had to have certain procedures carried out, not because I wanted to be (as an end in itself), but to help me become more confident in the role that I always saw for myself. It worked. Prior to that, life, as they say, 'sucked'.
I know that, for some people, surgery isn't an option, whether for medical or other reasons. Gender isn't defined by what's between the legs, but what's between the ears.
S.
>> Men are from Mars, Women are from Snickers
...but Snickers are from Mars too.
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
being accetpted
I think that if i was accepted as Dorothy by others, transforming myself would matter less. But since i am unlikely to be accepted as a woman unless i look like one, i may have few options.
"Treat everyone you meet as though they had a sign on them that said "Fragile, under construction"
dorothycolleen