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There's a new feature at BC, a rating system. For logged in users (except Guest Reader) this appears as a set of five stars down near the end of each story.
If you're logged in, you can rate a story by clicking on how many stars you want to give it. The stars will change color when you do to show how many stars you have given it. You can change your vote and you can remove your vote with the little red circle at the left of the stars. Here's what the stars mean:
- No stars - I have not read this story or have no opinion or am neutral on this story. Votes of no stars are not averaged into totals shown to authors.
- One star - D - I did not like this story or this story needs major work. Should be rare.
- Two stars - C - This story had good parts but could use improvement.
- Three stars - B -I enjoyed this story and would probably recommend it.
- Four stars - A - I enjoyed this story a lot and would highly recommend it.
- Five stars - A+ - One of the best stories I've read anywhere. Should be rare.
Only you willl know how you voted and only the poster of a story will see the average of the votes.
Star averages for stories will appear for the poster of the story only (even I can't easily look at them). The top 15 stories by a poster will appear on the front page in one of the lower corners and all of a posters stories can also be reached at a page available only to the poster via the |My Stars| menu item in the left column menu.
I hope this works well for more feedback for authors. :)
hugs,
Erin
Might be a good idea
Ah, away to give a general comment on a stories overall worthto you without having to post and invite a flame.
The info will be less useful, but less inflamatory.
Can I rate myself. I will of couse in al due modesty, give my stories all six stars as they desresrve it. And if I'm exagerating may I be run over by a streetcar.
-- DING -- DING -- DING --
Very funny, Erin. Ouch!
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
Sure, you can rate yourself
But if you give yourself all fives on everything, you're only fooling yourself. :)
Oh, I just patched a bug in the code so next time the trolley should miss you but watch your feet. :)
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Minor problem.
"Star averages for stories will appear for the poster of the story only (even I can't easily look at them)."
This also raises another problem. Since I post all of Julie O's stories for her, her ratings show up on my front page, but probably not on hers. Any chance of changing things so that it's the author, not the poster who sees the ratings? (BTW, this problem also applies to all "Write to author" links -- I get PM comments on Julie's stories all the time.)
Amelia
"Reading rots the mind." - Uncle Analdas
"Reading rots the mind." - Uncle Analdas
Poster vs Author
The only way to fix that is for me to change the poster field. I actually did that on 50+ stories last night. I'll get to it eventually. :)
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Poster vs. Author revisited
In the version of Drupal you were running before 99 Shoes, there was a drop-down menu where the poster could change from their own name to any of the listed authors. I used that a couple times, and it seemed to work well. I don't suppose it's still there waiting for you to set a flag though. :(
Amelia
"Reading rots the mind." - Uncle Analdas
"Reading rots the mind." - Uncle Analdas
Five Star
I think this rating system is great. The comments tend to get too personal.
Star Ratings
I like the idea of the star ratings, and I think it will be helpful to authors. It would really be nice if there was a way to make them show up for everyone, however. Having the rating of a story visible with the teaser would be an additional way to attract readers. I realize this is probably beyond your control though, Erin. I still think it will be very useful to authors as is.
Scott
Writing is not necessarily something to be ashamed of--but do it in private and wash your hands afterwards.
Lazarus Long - Robert A. Heinlein's 'Time Enough for Love'
Bree
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.
-- Tom Clancy
http://genomorph.tglibrary.com/ (Currently broken)
http://bree-ramsey314.livejournal.com/
Twitter: @genomorph
Star visibility
No, it's easy to make them visible to everyone and I could allow non-members to vote. This was my choice of how to do this, discussion is welcome.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
YouTube Style would be nice.
I often look at the YouTube top rated this week screen and use the combination of title, #views and rating to decide what to sample. Here I tend to look at the 100 comments screen and pick from there, as 100 comments doesn't show story title it's a bit hit or miss.
To rate on YouTube you need to log in, normally I rate positively to encourage the poster and to point others to the video. The rating system does allow you to nullify hype to some extent. Here I tend to post a comment with little content other than how much I liked the story so rating would work well for me.
If the rating system was visible to all users of the site it might be a better indicator of a story worth reading then the number of comments. Often the number of comments is not dependable as people are posting friendly banter.
Perhaps a 30 day trial of visible ratings could be made and if it creates problems then switch to the visible to author only version.
2cents worth, Hugs, Christine.
Toobular
I don't have a way to do rated this week, these would be all time ratings (there might be one added later). Do you look under |recent popular content|?
This is the kind of input that will help me make up my mind. :) Thanks.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Visibility
I second Scott's suggestion that the star average be visible to everyone. What's the point of it, otherwise?
Truly
I thought of it as feedback to authors, not as a promotional tool. And the people who've asked for it were authors who wanted something simpler for people to leave feedback without having to write a comment.
I REALLY hesitate to make it visible to everyone, though I am experimenting with that via the Recent Rating menu item, at least visible on the front page stories to logged in members with the idea of encouraging them to vote their stars.
My experience with wide open star ratings on other sites is that they rapidly become so inflated as to be worthless as feedback. I see my job here as making it easy for authors and readers to communicate across that divide to each other. Reader to reader is secondary.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Against Public Viewing of Stars
I personally am against stars being viewable by every one. Visible stars are tool to help the readers, not to help the authors. They introduce competition as opposed to providing affirmation. In fact a search technique on stars will even minimize the simplest of author affirmations, reader counts.
Big bang - then the inflationary phase
I'm not sure if, as a visiting-only non-registrant and one who has to share a single star-setting with all the other Guest Readers, I'm allowed to have a view on this, let alone put it forward. But I'm going to.
I don't necessarily agree that 'hits' are a good measure either. The correspondence on Robin Goodgirl pointed that up. But hits seem to me to be better than stars, because for stars I also fear the sort of inflation that Erin instances.
I can think of several downsides; for example a well-know author getting 'starred down' for a slightly-below-usual-standard offering that is nonetheless better than other stories gaining more stars; other stories' ratings manipulated up or down by a sub-set of readers.
I'd rather it was left as authors' information.
Xi
Dark Matter
Dear Xi,
If I may type you that at the risk of seeming formal? :) I agree with you and would say that we actually have no "good measure" for estimating story quality. My current surmise is that like beauty it is in ..... well you know. The Robin Goodgirl correspondence did show a total lack of correlation between "hits" and "comments" and a few other interesting things. I can point out many highly commented upon (favorably) stories that have a very sparse readership and I am left to ponder how one, or if one, should bother trying to harvest the views of such a feckless population.
Perhaps comments and hits are enough confusion? :)
Gwen Lavyril
Gwen Lavyril
Pair of Slacks
My dad told me about how when he was a kid in rural Arkansas, a lot of farmers had old Model-T fords up on blocks somewhere on the property. Some of these were being used through belts and pulleys to power sawmills, grain mills, cream separators, cane or sorghum mills, generators or whatever light power machinery that might be needed. If one farmer had such a sawmill, he charged other farmers either part of the lumber sawed on it or some other sort of trade, perhaps in the especial product of the "customer's" own farm because no one had cash money to spend. "I'll give you a dozen eggs now and one of Granny's best shoofly pies, plus a piglet to be named later, for a day's use of your sawmill next week."
We're like that here. Trading comments and stars for access to each other's stories and the especial products of our own particular Green Acres.
That is to say, it's all grist for the mill. (Sawmills don't use grit, but you know what I mean.) Comment and stars and the total of reads are all views of what we have accomplished with our writing and their chief worth is their worth to us as writer's in guidance, encouragement and incentive to keep on planting taters and harvesting dandelions.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Feckless Dark Matter
Hey Gwen,
I resemble that remark :)
Hugs Christne.
Nebular Haze
First, thank you, Erin, for all the work you've done on these stars. I do think they are great, and for the reason you said, they make it easy for readers to give a little feedback to the writers.
However, I don't think the total rating should be visible. It does make things to competitive (Didn't Brando say awards were meaningless unless we all wrote Hamlet? Or something like that?) and they soon become worthless for there main purpose. I all ready feel like it is mean to give a good enjoyable story only a 3 (which is what I think 3 should mean). But there are a lot of nice people around here and they are going to be nice.
I do, also, agree with Scott and the others that some type of public rating would be nice. (It ain't easy sitin' on both sides of a fence, but it can be done.) I thought showing only he 5s might work, but know that that would just be inflationary and cause a meteor shower too.
I'm glad the decision is yours, Erin, and not mine. I did have one idea though and I did promise to tell you of any new ways to give you a head ache I came up with, and this one is a dozy. Would it be possible to create a special and permanent page, with a link on the front page, where users could make personal top five (or 3 or 10) list? I know that many people would shy away from doing such a thing,but it would let the really great stories shine and be informative and keep me away from the key board too. Maybe only long time or very active people would be allowed. Maybe this would just cause a great deal more heartache and ill will. It is well beyond the stars and just a thought.
Love and Hugs
Jan
Personal best
Actually I could do that with the "bookmarks" capability. I'll look into it. :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Public bookmarks?
Would bookmarks be visible to others? I was thinking of something like permanent recommendation lists. There are many people who have read more than I, and I could spend several days going through your all-time favorites or Aardvark's or Amelia's or Scott's or Angela's or ...
This would, in a way, fill the purpose of having visible ratings. (At least for the stories that even I would give 5 stars to.) See lots of possible headaches.
Hugs,
Jan
Liberty is more than the freedom to be just like you.
Rating
Good idea, and as a guest reader I can see the the stars. So, would a guest readers rating count
You can see the stars?
You mean at the bottom of stories? Or do you mean when logged in as Guest Reader there are some stories showing up as authored by guest?
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Bug in Drupal Design
Yes, someone logged in as Guest Reader can vote, but anoter person logged in as Guest Reader could change that vote. Doesn't seem to be anyway to prevent that short of changing every one of 3000 member records. Drupal 5.x works different than 4.x or any other membership control system I've ever seen on this point.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
On concussion
- seeing stars.
Not logged in = no stars
Logged in as "Guest Reader" = stars visible and operable; ie I can choose how many.
Whether or not that is effective in terms of the scoring I cannot tell, but would guess that it is unless Drupal has special facility for according reduced priviledges to a 'Guest"' sign-in.
I'm going to test the persistence of a score or two (I'll need to do that in a fair and honest assessment, in case Guest Reader stars are sticky, but as that test means I have to Log out, I'll post this first.
Xi
As a guest reader the rating
As a guest reader the rating stars are visible and usable. It also appears that a guest reader can cancel the rating that has already been left. However, without being able to see any results, cant tell if this is so.
Yes
Everyone who logs in as GR has one rating to give between them. Changing this would require a fair amount of work because of a design choice made in the construction of Drupal 5.0 membership list.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Star Daze and ratings
I think this is a Great idea, too. Just knowing how many people made it to the end of the story would be wonderful info to have, and every scintilla of feedback is nice. Now a few other thoughts.
I feel the over all score should be private. To often people will rate a story badly because they didn't like the style or because of an element they disapprove of (seen that happen way too often.). It would be unfortunate if such a rating (or even several) kept an otherwise good story from being wildly read by more receptive people.
Perhaps just the number of 5s could be displayed, but the problem with that would be that anything but a five could come to be seen as a bad score. So maybe the 4s and 5s and the number of total raters. That is still only a partial solution, but i do agree that some kind of public score would be nice.
The third thing, if it is possible it would be nice to see a brake down of the ratings rather than just the average. Five 3s would be very different from three 4s, a 2, and a 1.
Finally, it would be good to have meanings of the ratings visible, maybe on he left tied to the end of the story. Forced choices always are fuzzy but that would help make it less so. And finally: remind people at the end of each story that ratings does not replace actual comments!! That is the one huge draw back from this kind of system (IMHO).
If I think of anymore ways to give you a headache, Erin, I'll let you know.
Love and Hugs,
Jan
Liberty is more than the freedom to be just like you.
We'll try it
Star ratings for stories still on the front page are now available for any logged in member to look at in the |Recent ratings| link in the left column menu.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Why separate?
Why not on the story entries themselves as they appear on the front page? Technical constraint?
Yup
I can get the stars for voting on the teasers but not the result stars. It ought to work but they just don't show up. Something I'm doing wrong or not understanding or a bug in the program. I'm leaning toward the last, I've got four patches in this thing already. :) I don't think it would be right to have the voting on the teasers.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
The Dark Side of Stars.
Dear Erin,
Can I opt out of being awarded, or as the case may be, not awarded stars?
The lack of them will only depress me. And any possible awarding would worry me as to why.
Comments give one the option of disagreeing so that one can dismiss the criticism as complete rubbish and find comfort in the indisputable fact that such can only originate from an illiterate idiot being the unfortunate possessor of a deformed and sadly malicious nature.
Comments allow one the opportunity to determine that the reader is someone who does not like the sort of story you write. Someone who has read it by mistake and is enraged at having their time wasted, or their sensibilities enraged. Even if it were to have been penned by a choir of angels and be of impeccable literary worth it would be dismissed as crap.
Comments allow one an occasional warm glow of satisfaction when one feels one has been read by a kindred soul who understands what one is trying to do. Some gifted individual who appreciates the rolling cadences and delicate characterisation that denote the arrival of a literary giant in a landscape otherwise occupied by pygmies.
Comments mean that someone has read it with their eyes at least partially open
Whereas stars? Stars tell you nothing.
Admittedly they could act as a rating system measuring the general intelligence quotient of the readers but even as such they would be suspect. There are just too many variables. Too many whys.
And as to awarding them myself. I could never do it. I would spend hours in tortured indecision. Five is not enough. I would be obsessed by yawning gaps. I would yearn for the opportunity to award something between 3 and 4 or 4 and 5 rather than the numbers themselves. How could I be so imprecise!
(I could never award less because I would not have read that far in any story meriting less. And anyway surely there aren't any here?)
And I couldn't award anyone five because no-one can be that good! It would mean there was no room for improvement. After all there is some crap in Shakespeare. And what would I do for their next tale? So it would have to be three or four. And I would need a system whereby after long and mature consideration I could dole out a verdict of three and seven sixteenths or even four and nineteen thirtyseconds. Oh dizzy heights of excellence! Even decimals would be acceptable at a pinch, but only at a pinch as there is something so very commercial about them.
No Erin. Please? I beg to be excused.
Hugs in Fearful Trepidation,
Fleurie
The Star Chamber
Like several others who have commented I can see the attraction and merit of Erin's efforts on this to date and I appreciate them very much. Still, in my heart of hearts, I feel very much like fleurie who unlike myself always makes her points with a charming diffidence I can't master, so I will just get on with it.
Not knowing the back room mechanics of Drupal what I am suggesting may be impossible, but here goes. Along with the "average" can you show the sample size? So one could see that a story was 3.5 stars based upon 100 ratings vs another that is 5 stars based upon 1 rating. One can infer radically different things from that information alone. :) Second, can 4 ratings be accumulated before constructing and displaying the first "average" ratings? With samples smaller than 4 you can't really calculate a meaningful average, but admittedly if the participation level is low then that 4 threshold may not get crossed.
It is a shame it can't be opened to the general readership as they seem to outnumber "users" from 5 to 10 to 1, but I gather that is an inability to uniquely identify the "guest reader" status for voting purposes?
Regardless of what, can or is to be done with this, I agree with fleurie that the ability to "opt out" as one has with comments is important. On the one site I am familiar with that has a system like this the member has to "enable" the rating system and I believe that is how comments work here isn't it?
Nice work Erin, and thanks for reading.
Gwen
Gwen Lavyril
Gwen Lavyril
Star of Stars
Taking your points one by one, Gwen.
1. Sample size is available for authors. |My Stars| takes you to a page with average ratings per story where another link |Vote by Vote| takes you to a page of individual votes by story.
2. Limiting the visible voting results to four or more data points can't be done in the present system. Maybe in a later rev of the software or maybe I can patch it.
3. I can turn this on for the general readership but it makes a geater load on the server and is less secure. I'll do it if enough authors ask.
4. Opting out of even seeing the box for making ratings is problematical as was part of Fleurie's request. It would require a rewrite of the member list to establish some new groups.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Star Trick
Dear Erin,
May I emerge from the mantle of diffidence, so kindly, albeit surely unjustifyably, bestowed upon me by Gwen, to assure you that I am not seriously suggesting that you devote further effort to pander to the fevered imaginings and fears that I expressed above. It just isn't worth it and you have more than enough to do without further complications.
It is just that I fear that stars will introduce a measuring stick, and a highly subjective and inaccurate one, into the mix. The thoughtless might see such as reflecting merit and we will be categorised accordingly. I see myself being forced to emerge only after dark and then having to skulk through darkened and insalubrious alleyways to avoid the scornful catcalls of the local youths. Well more than usual anyway. And all because I am marked for all the world to see as merely a two or, heaven forfend, a one star writer.
Will erstwhile friends, themselves emblazoned with four and five stars, avert their gaze and pass me by on the other side of the road? Will any future comments of mine be read with an inward shrug of dismissal and discarded as being written by someone of inferior status unfit to venture upon the intellectual fields of fiction frequented by my betters?
They may well be read thus already of course but I am blissfully unaware of it. My ego rescues me. But if I had only one or two stars I would be bereft of all and any protection. I would feel I deserved it, wallowing in my isolated misery at the bottom of the pecking order.
And if I ever got more, I should, shall, ascribe them to pity.
Hugs of Despair,
Fleurie
Well the one thing I can offer, easily...
...is to take Story-type stories, those that disallow commenting by defualt off of the menu for being awarded stars. That's not very hard. Anyone else want to comment here on this?
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Starry-eyed
Dear Erin.
I like comments. I solicit them. I revel in the good ones that encourage my vanity. Even the bad ones make me feel good, as I am able to rationalise them as the outpourings of uncomprehending minds thus by contrast elevating my own understanding of literature, life, and the eternal verities in general.
With really bad and abusive ones I pass many a happy hour moulding small waxen figurines into the imagined likeness of the comment's author and then sticking pins into the more sensitive areas of their anatomy.
Comments are a transfusion of life's blood for an author, even more for a humble teller of tales craving feedback.
But stars? Stars bring neither satisfaction nor information unless it be a commentary on the paucity of spirit, or alternatively the blazing effrontery, of those moved to award them. Maybe we English just lack a competitive spirit but it does seem a little demeaning to be awarded stars by people whose judgement one has no means of ascertaining. Rather like being a restaurant in a street full of restaurants. Lauded because the Pintadeau a la Normande had just the right amount of calvados therein or castigated because the Brussels sprouts were overcooked and unbearably soggy. And all indiscriminately by vegetarians, the already-eaten, the overfed, and any passing drunk who can still count up to five.
I suppose then if I have to choose between both comments and stars or deathly silence I shall choose the former. But anyone who has the unforgivable impertinence to sit in Michelin style judgement on me will be subjected to an undying curse carrying consequences of a most unpleasant nature in comparison to which waxen images and pins fade into complete insignificance. Yeah even unto the seventh generation. A regular five star curse.
Hugs,
Fleurie
Star Trick
I award this comment four and a half stars! ;)
Aardvark
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
On three
After looking at the actual code, star voting will not be extended to non-members; it just isn't secure at all. Sorry.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Thanks
Erin,
Thanks for sharing and the answers. I missed the vote by vote link and that is probably the most important feature for me. Really appreciate your tireless efforts to keep evolving the place and whatever is decided I hope it will be a great success!
Hugs,
Gwen
Gwen Lavyril
Gwen Lavyril
I'll look into it
Stories of Story-type are excluded from comments by default. Let me think on it. But stars are much easier to ignore if you don't like them.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Star Classes
Fleurie, in order to exclude some stories from star ratings, I would have to create a new input type for starless stories, and probably a second new one for people who wanted neither comments nor stars. And this would not take care of old existing stories that are already input. The software lets me turn comments on and off per story but stars are a new feature and that ability is not built in. I would have to write a lot of code and test and debug it and if a new version of stars came out, I might have to do it all over again to take advantage of any new features the new version of stars had.
As for voting on stars or seeing the voting stars, to exclude some members and not others from seeing that, I would have to create a new group of all logged in members then move everyone in the present default group over to the new group excepting those who did not want to see stars. That's because Drupal's groups have inclusive permissions, but no exclusive ones. Currently, if i give a permission to logged in members then all logged in members have that permission.
I feel this new feature is worthwhile to many (people have been asking me for something like this ever since I staarted BC) and fairly easy to ignore if you don't like it, but if enough people don't like it I'll just discontinue it. Even one may be enough.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Good Star, Bad Star
I like the system. I especially like the My Star tab showing me all of my stories with how many reads and any new comments, and oh yeah, the stars. That was something I didn't know I wanted until it was there. In the Recent rating tab, can you list the author as well as the title?
-- Donna Lamb, Flack
-- Donna Lamb, ex-Flack
Some of my books and stories are sold through DopplerPress to help support BigCloset. -- Donna
Poster Child
I can list the poster but apparently not the author, when I try it comes out "Array" so that's a bug in the software. It may get fixed or I may try to patch it. Not soon though. The poster is not always the same person as the author, so I'd rather not do that.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Star Whores
I'm asking for everyone to read my stories and give them a rating. Hey, I just went through and gave all of them three stars (cause I think they ARE that good) so here's your chance to tell me I'm wrong. :grin:
Here's the link for my stuff: http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/author/adonna
C'mon. You'd do it for Randolph Scott!
-- Donna Lamb, Flack
-- Donna Lamb, ex-Flack
Some of my books and stories are sold through DopplerPress to help support BigCloset. -- Donna
I like stars...
When I read a story, and like it, I want to write a comment. But so often all that can be said about the story has been said or there isn't anything really to say. And I hate doing the 'Great Story, loved it.' comment route. Stars let me give positive affirmation of a story without faffing around.
When I read part of a story and hate it so I don't read the rest, Robin Goodgirl springs to mind. I can either hit it with one star or not vote.
When I post stories here I'd personally like to have my stars on the front so that people can see if its any good, and because stars are much easier to use than comments I hope that I can get more votes, negative or positive. Thus getting a better view of what people actually like. If I write a blockbuster and I have a solid 5 stars average and 100 people have read the story, that's so much better than a 100 reads and two comments, however long or in depth the comments are. Did no-one else like it?
Reads/Visit Counts are flawed as they only show who opened the page, not who actually sat down and read the story.
Comments lead to far too much strife, how many authors have quit or threatened to due to nasty comments left after a story? Too many IMO, a star cannot be nasty ever... (Well unless you fall into one and get burned to a frisp.)
So IMO keep the stars, have an easily accessible average for each story. Though it might be nice if each author could switch them off as and when they needed it. The only thing I'd really like is a bit more feedback on the actual vote.... I hit it but never know if its stuck or not *worried grin*.
JC
PS Not wanting to derail but... Can the tab order be changed on the reply box? (this thing I'm writing in now) So that when in the title I can tab to the text entry box and not to the style buttons.
The Legendary Lost Ninja
Tab
Um? What you're asking for is how tabbing works in my browsers. Glad you like stars, but really, very few people are using them. The most votes any story has gotten is six.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.