Today, David Cameron and Alex Salmon signed a contract to hold a referendum in Scotland to determine if it should remain as part of the United Kingdom, become a separate country, or, perhaps, chose some status incorporating features of both. This referendum is scheduled for 2014, so there will be plenty of time to discuss the pros and cons, coming to a consensus.
I'm an American of Scottish descent. I've been heavily involved is Scottish clan societies, Scottish organizations, and Scottish charities. Over the years, I have discussed the topic of Scottish independence with other Scottish Americans, and even a few of my relatives that live in Scotland.
I know many authors or readers are Scots, whether we live in Scotland, one of the Commonwealth countries, or elsewhere. What is your opinion? Do you favor the United Kingdom, in which Scotland has a disproportionately large quorum, yet is still a minority within the Parliament? Do you favor a separate country, small in size, poor in natural resources, yet the home of 'The Brave' who have either conquered or populated large portions of the world? Do the benefits of being a part of a larger, wealthier nation outweigh the benefits of becoming an independent member of the world's countries, with all the power, privilege, and responsibility upon the shoulders of the Scottish people? Whichever step is made will be a huge one, with consequences far into the future.
What's your opinion?
Comments
Personally
I'm a lumper, not a splitter. I think Scotland should remain part of the UK and the UK should remain in the EU and the EU (and US) in the UN. The UK is made up of a bunch of minorities after all; if you remove from the count all of the Scots, Welsh, Northern Irish, Cornish, Kentish, etc. you are left with fifteen fellows all named Nigel Somerset living in the West End of London with their foreign-born girlfriends. Who isn't a minority?
I do have a fair amount of Scots ancestry, though most of them stopped off in Ireland for a generation or two before crossing the Atlantic.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Being Canadian...
I know what it's like to have a portion of your country striving for independence. Around 20% of Quebecois still strive for independence. In the case of my own country, I favour unity. If I were British, I assume my opinions would be along the same lines (but I can't say for sure). While I am a Scottish descendent (Clan Carmichael) I have no firm opinion on the status of the United Kingdom. I don't feel it's much of my business, especially since I am a foreigner.
All that being said, it'll be an interesting outcome either way. A "no" vote on independence will never kill the question of separation though, Canada has clearly demonstrated that.
If one ignores history
and all the abuses, being half Scots, I believe we're stronger by sticking together, and that goes for Wales as well. I mean, if Scotland gets independence why not individual counties or towns or even houses?
The only people who profit by pointing out our differences are priests and politicians, and patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
We're all human beings irrespective of race, colour or creed. Once we start accepting that emotionally as well as intellectually, the world will become a better place.
Angharad.
PS. Tribalism is futile except when Team GB are bike racing, or Wales are playing rugby.
Angharad
A great big sticky wicket I would say.
There are merits for all three decisions but there are a lot of blood and suffering in each. So please be patient with my attempt to put a few thoughts onto this smokey fire.
1] Regionalism is a reality in the world. Long festering wounds must be healed and to do that healing to a festered wound requires a lot of stiff upper lip, and a bottle or two of good Scotch.
2] Cooperation through a democratically based government sets up the possibility of peaceful coexistence.
3] It is easy to talk but difficult to do the walk.
4] A crucial problem to avoid is the "To large to be an asylum for the insane but to small to be a country" tiger pit.
5] Power and holding of it requires an impeccable personality. Both strong,flexible, and honest.
My opinion F W I W is that a independent cooperative organized governance must be established, where the common responsibilities like defense and solving regional disagreements are handled. Then the states issues are the local responsibility with a strong supreme court apparatus to protect the little guy from bullying by what ever interests would do so.
The local is more tribal in orientation, Example the 7 nations of the eastern US Iroquois confederacy. with its concentric rings of responsibility. Every one of age has a voice in the discussion, The woman's lodges have a check and balance with the men's. There is both a civil Chief and a War chief with different responsibilities.
Then there needs to be those who handle the next ring of responsibilities such as defense of the earths water and responsible use of resources with in a Country grouping of region's. Then a larger continental level legal system enforcing
that every one plays well together.
. Angharad [sp} pointed out to me that the melding of the various regions of the British common wealth has erased many of the old population separations. But having "We the people" owning there own responsibilities is essential for any sort of freedom. Here in Washington state there is a division between those who live on the western coast area and those who live in the dry lands east of the Cascade Mountains. We have very different worries and priorities.
How to solve this I am not exactly certain but it must be solved if the common wealth is to survive.
With those with open eyes the world reads like a book
It would be a very messy divorce.
Scotland and the rest of the UK share a huge number of agencies and resources to separate them would be a nightmare; some that spring to mind are NHS, BBC, CAA, Armed Forces, some police functions, Coastguard and, of course, they say they want to continue to use the pound as their currency (how they'd control their economy, I don't know).
Then there's the question of their membership of the EU. As a separate country they would, theoretically, have to negotiate to join. Moreover, I think new member countries are expected to adopt the Euro and who wants to do that in the current climate?
The main advantage for me, as English and left-leaning, is that Scotland doesn't return any Tories to Parliament and without the Scots the rest of the country is in danger of being ruled forever by Home Counties Tories. But that's a different matter.
Robi
Research, research, research...
and don't assume. Not all of the functions you cited are co-joined, as it were.
The Royal Bank of Scotland still produces its own bank notes.
FWIW
Janet
Mistress of the Guild of Evil [Strawberry] Blonde Proofreaders
To be or not to be... ask Schrodinger's cat.
Re: Scottish Banknotes
Scottish (and Irish) banknotes are one of the oddities that Britain delights in maintaining. Historically, banks issued banknotes representing deposits (in coin) made with them - they were a promissary note that the bank would pay coin to the holder. In 1844, the Bank of England was given the sole right to issue banknotes, while banks were permitted to maintain the notes they had in issue in 1844. The Scots (as usual) wanted to be different, and in 1845 were permitted to issue more notes, but these must be matched by an matching deposit of legal tender at the Bank of England.
However, Scottish banknotes are not legal tender (technically they remain promissary notes), and you are not obliged to take them as payment. In practise, they are generally accepted in Scotland, and banks in England will exchange them for BofE banknotes. Otherwise, acceptability depends on how close you are to the Scottish border. I wouldn't advise any foreigner taking them out of the UK, except as a curio. I had an American friend who returned from a Glasgow SF convention to California, and he had to go into the (then) HQ of Bank of America to find a teller who would exchange them!
maybe
I think independence will come for Scotland eventually but whether it's as an outcome of this particular referendum or of one ten or more years hence I'm not sure. Even if the independence vote is a 'no' vote there is enough wiggle room for the SNP to push for devo-max (basically Scotland becoming more financially self controlling). That being said I saw an article on the BBC website where they were saying the majority of Scots would vote for independence if they were financially better off to the tune of something like £500, which hardly sounds like a rallying cry of Braveheart.
Of course, being English and living in southern England I don't get a vote on the matter. If you'd have asked me last year I'd be all for Scottish independence but after the boost to the Great Britain 'brand identity' through the Olympics I think I would be sad to see the end of the union.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
Look at what has happened in the Balkans!
The UK only became strong when it became the 'United Kingdom' in the early eighteenth century, if it broke up it would become a group of minor countries on the peripheries of Europe. I am of Irish descent on both sides but can't help thinking that Irish independence and partition between the Republic and Ulster was the worst thing that could have happened to Ireland. The same would be true of Scotland - it wouldn't be long before the highlanders want to break away from the lowlanders as they have different historical and religious traditions. Likewise the north Wallians and South Wallians don't get on too well together, and then of course there are those in Cornwall who would like to see it break away from the rest of England - utter madness!
Louise
My thoughts
My father is Scottish, though our clan is a border clan historically and he is a Unionist. The fact that my mother is from an Irish Republican family always makes me question exactly how that happened with them getting together. Still, I know many that want independence.
I think it is likely though that the Scots would choose to remain as part of the UK. Though they might want a bit more autonomy perhaps, not sure. I haven't talked to my aunt and uncle in some time.
Samirah M. Johnstone
Scotland going it apart
I have pretty much equal parts Scot. English. Welsh. Irish. German. Spanish. I think Scotland should become a seperate but equal part to England. Then the common wealth countries should become more of an integrated entity ala a United countries of the Commonwealth
Clan MacAodh (McKee)
*HUGS*
Robi
Scotland going it apart
Scotland is a separate but equal part to England, within the United Kingdom.
Each has it's own laws, customs and language (Strictly speaking, those in Scotland don't speak English but Scots, which has a different vocabulary).
Technically, we have two separate heads of state who happen to reside in the same body. Our Queen is Elizabeth II of England but Elizabeth of Scotland. Rules of precedant and custom are made by two independant bodies in each country.
Okay, we share a currency but the Scots issue their own notes (see another poster above). We share armed forces but even there regiments are raised separately in each country (I'm not sure about the Royal Navy or RAF).
It's a complicated business that will keep officials in work for decades, if not longer, should the Scots decide to part company.
Penny
What of the Stuarts?
Really, I think the fit of romanticism which must bear out such a vote would demand that Franz Bonaventura Adalbert Maria Herzog von Bayern set afoot the stone of Scone, and take the tartan. Ochtung?!
And if it comes to that, Betty II and Franz need to hold a pay-per-view wrestling match for the regalia, proceeds of course to an orphan's fund...
Maybe a game of curling?
Scottish Independence?
I favor Scotland having it's own royalty linked to Wade Wallace, equal to that of G.B.
May Your Light Forever Shine
Well....
...I suppose I could go either way... seeing how I've got kin on both sides and plenty in between as well.
Oh, and by the way, my great-grandfather on my mother's side ...Cameron MacDonald...came over and married a nice girl from Nova Scotia.
Love, Andrea Lena
Natural reserve
I think they should keep the skirts lose the baggypipes n open a nature reserve for the few remaining wild haggis k-jo
I was lying down minding my own business when life came by and drove right over me
Yes
And halt the slaughter of the Paisley's the poor wee beasties.
Consensus?
It looks like most of us would opt for a continuation of the United Kingdom of England, Wales, Cornwall, Scotland and Ulster. It would be a larger group of people, with greater wealth, greater resources and greater potential than any one of them would have by themselves.
Should there be some changes? Perhaps a greater degree of self-determination. Perhaps a greater recongnition of the differences that make the union strong. But, in general, maintain a United Kingdom.
Red MacDonald