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I've had a head cold the last few days so I read the Hunger Games trilogy.
1.) What's with the present tense? The author evidently thought it would heighten our intimacy with the narrator. Has anyone ever verbally told you a story in present tense? I don't think so. After a bit my mind simply ignored it and changed everything to past tense.
2.) Why did every line of dialogue have an attribution? You have a two-person scene, after one person talks and you have a new paragraph, it's obvious that another person is speaking. Since there's only two it has to be. . . . Again my eye simply glossed over the attributions after a bit.
3.) It is an unwritten rule that a paragraph will only have the words, thoughts, and actions of a single character. Not in these three books. Sometimes it became very confusing because of the mangled mess the author made of this simple rule.
4.) "In an attribution it is best to put the verb after the noun," my teacher said. Although other best sellers seem to go about fifty/fifty on this you have to wonder why. To test why this is so, try substituting other verbs for "said" when you place the verb first. "This pizza is tasty," belched Tom.
5.) Character growth is essential to a story. These books started out with admirable characters who either maintained a shred of their dignity or fell apart. In the end I had much less respect for the main character than I did in the first chapter. Why did she "settle" for the life in 12 and why didn't she at least give Gale a chance? Her definition of love became more and more confused as the story went on. IN the beginning she loved her sister enough to give up her own life to save her. In the end she simply loved the one who gave her the best chance to survive.
6.) What the hell does Young Adult mean anymore? Not even five years ago the list of things you couldn't do in a YA novel was lengthy . . . and for good reason. The main character starts out at 16. Rule of thumb is children read books about character three years older than themselves. The only redeeming message in this book is its condemnation of war. Is it really necessary to subject 13-year olds to a view of life that's so nihilistic. The Harry Potter series tore down some ethical barriers in its later books that probably should have remained intact. Hunger Games violated basic human dignity. I wonder how many schools will allow it in the junior high libraries?
7.) For gosh sakes . . . how many characters do you think the gentle reader can keep straight in their minds? How many characters can have the same letter starting their name? I could't even count all the "C" characters, let alone remember which person had done what. In the end the author just willy-nilly killed off people just to drive home the point that War is Hell. We got that message in the first chapter. If you counted each of the 14 areas within the country as a character, which they plainly were, the number of personalities to keep track of had to be around fifty.
All in all the author is a master of the cliffhanger and had a plot that was captivating. The story borrowed heavily from pop TV shows Survivor, Project Runway, and American Idol. If you like reality TV, you'll love the Hunger Games. At one point one of the main characters seeks sanity by playing Real of Not Real with his closest friends. Oh really. Don't tell me American Idol is scripted. The author also should pay royalties to Dr. Seuss.
Yes. . . I would recommend the trilogy to other adults. . .as popcorn literature and not as a primer on writing. I'll go to the movies, because my spouse is a big fan.
Once again . . . write for yourself, because trying to be a Good writer is a moving target.
Jill MI
Angela Rasch
Comments
To those who like my stories
Here is a big reason. Angela was my first editor, and I learned a lot! I'd listen to her-she taught me to fix several of my all-too-frequent mistakes.
If I never said it before, well, THANK YOU!
wREN
Largely the same here.
I've had a few different editors for things I've written, all of them with their own strengths and weaknesses. Depending on what kind of story I'm writing I'll choose a different editor, or no editor at all if I don't feel the need or urgency to post is too great.
Given all this, though, my first choice for editor is almost inevitably Angela.
Of course, after being given her editing notes on my stories I'll promptly ignore about a third of what she marks, but that's just me being a persnickety author :P I'm sure there are more than a few parts in "Dear John" and other things she's looked over for me where she's gone "now why did she put that back in?" when reading it on the site.
As for "The Hunger Games..."
A lot of my friends are telling me to read it. Twenty-somethings, mostly, but a lot of them insist the books are amazing.
I haven't taken the time to get hold of a copy of any of them yet, but if the first person perspective is really used, I can pretty well say I wouldn't be able to read it. For occasional urgency, it's okay, but for three whole books it's a little ridiculous.
On top of that, if it has an ending this, well, BAD, I don't wanna read it either. I'm a softie, and don't really care for anything other than happy endings in the stories I read.
Thanks for the review, Angela! I might see the movie, but I think now I'll probably avoid the book.
Melanie E.
For what it's worth...
My neice - who teaches high school English - is one of those fans who really like the book.
I suspect that she's very carefully NOT taken a critical look at the book! LOL
Anne
1-5 & 7 I agree totally, Angela
I'll emphasize what you said.
1. There are a number of authors who have posted here that have large numbers of happy readers, whose stories I have difficulty reading, or in most cases, gave up on because everything was written in present tense while about things that happened in the past. It is one thing I hit heavily when authors for whom I am editing use it.
2. Over attribution - I agree totally, As long as it is clear who is talking, especially when only two characters are involved in talking back and forth, and the character changes with every paragraph, it is not necessary to provide an attribution for each piece of dialog.
3. it gets confusing when more than one character's actions or dialog are in one paragraph. Paragraphs are free. Use them to separate the characters, and their actions and dialog. In particular, do not have everything in a paragraph about one character, then introduce a new character at the end, then put the second character's dialog in the next paragraph.
4. I was never taught the Verb after the noun rule, and prefer to not follow the rule. Always putting the verb after the noun, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE VERB IS ALWAYS 'SAID', GETS TO BE FORMULISTIC AND BORING.
5. The stories I like best show at least one of the main characters becoming a better person as they face the situations in the story.
7. Yes it is difficult to keep track of who is who when too many characters have similar names. Yet, once in a while it does not hurt to have two characters with the same name, though it makes it more difficult to keep track of who is who. I had a very common first name. In my 2nd grade class, out of 33 students, five of us shared the same first name. The teacher attempted to make it easier by having two of us use nicknames based on our name, and two use their last names. It worked well, until two parents insisted that the teacher use the name they had given, not a substitute name. Needless to say, neither of the two kids were the one who had originally been picked to use the given name.
I won't comment on your item 6, except to say I have problems with the age/maturity ratings systems. People of all ages have differing levels of maturity. There is no one size fits all that can be used.
Holly
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
Holly
Over attribution drives me crazy
One of the worse offenders is Robert B Parker. My wife and I listen to audible novels when we drive to Los Angeles and are able to finish an unabridged version by the time we drive back and forth. After each person speaks the narator goes, He said, She said. It drives me nuts. I assume the author thinks were to stupid to follow a conversation, but on the other hand after listening to some of the teens conversations these days the origination of the speech is almost a must, Arecee
That's the fault of uncreative authors
But that's plain uncreativity of the author.
If I'd just used said, said, said here I could understand your problem, but there are more options.
Your example, my opinion
That level of attribution seems to work in short spurts, Beyogi. But kept up over the course of a whole story it could start to seem rather bloated; Even though these detailed attributes and how you use them are excellent, helping to convey plot details and the character of your uh, characters. The only one that I would eliminate here is "nick defended himself" since it's obvious that he's defending himself from the words he uses...
I myself come dangerously close to over-attributing, since my style reflects my chatty personality and for me to try and be as lean as Hemingway with my prose wouldn't be real. And I do a lot of editing of stories I posted here months and years ago, sometimes streamlining the dialogue but on rare occasion actually adding a "said" or something for the sake of clarity. It seems to take me dozens of re-readings to reveal what works & what doesn't (I don't subscribe to the Kerouac school that says the first draft is always best. This might work for a genius but not for me). I do a lot of on site editing of stories I've written in the days immediately following posting. For some reason there are always major mistakes I don't see until it's all formatted and on the pastel backgrounds of this site.
Angela Rasch has never edited from me but do I try to steal all her best ideas about technique.
hugs, Veronica
"Government will only recognize 2 genders, male + female,
as assigned at birth-" (In his own words:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1lugbpMKDU
I had a similar...
I had a similar reaction to the story - when I originally read it. (My daughter was reading it, so I figured it might be a good idea if one of her mom's did as well...) You're right - the original premise was interesting and the characters there. But then things went down hill for me. I couldn't bring myself to read the second book in the trilogy (at least I assume it's done now). My daughter managed it, but she gave up on the third.
Nice to see someone actually provide an "honest" review of this story. Will we see it? The jury's still out. My daughter's in no hurry. She actually wanted to see John Carter far more (hasn't made it there yet, either... Live Theatre events have gotten in the way!
As to present tense - Done RIGHT, I think it CAN lead immediacy... Like it's happening NOW, as opposed to the story teller knowing what's going to happen and telling the story with that knowledge. But, it's not well done in Hunger Games (IMO) - or at least not uniformly done.
Thanks,
Annette
Present Tense
I cannot stand present tense. It is one of the most annoying ways to tell a story (to me). I've actually had to stop reading stories here on Big Closet because of the use of present tense. It just feels weird.
Well... About rule 1) I can
Well...
About rule 1) I can totally agree with you there. Present tense sucks in stories.
Rule 2) I really don't see it like this. I guess it's mostly a cultural thing. I've only seen that in english/american stories at all. The same as the extreme use of said, asked and told. In german stories conversation is always attributed and if it gets annoying the author can put in some thoughts about the environment, or what is happening. So when I first saw this in english stories I was rather astonished :D
Rule 3) Um yeah, that would get really complicated and confusing.
Rule 4) oh well, good to know :D
Rule 5) I guess it makes sense if the story is really what you imply, but that doesn't change it's totally frustrating for the reader, especially in a trilogy. (I'd never read an author again after he'd written such a downer ending)
Rule 6) Doesn't really seem like a young adult novel, more a novel with young adult protagonists/victims.
Rule 7) He really did that? And the book was a bestseller that was made into a movie? Strange...
Thanks for the review. This seems like a frustrating series I really really don't need to read.
Beyogi
Enjoy the movie?
Sorry, but my son inlaw fell asleep watching it. He did say that he had a long day, but also mentioned John Carter was a better movie, Arecee
Rule breaking
I think I've probably broken most of these rules myself when writing stories here at BCTS.
I mainly write in present tense. When writing I tend to visualise a scene and describe it as it happens in my head. It therefore usually defaults to present tense. I have to force myself to change tense or rewrite it afterwards. As I write solely for my own pleasure rather than profit, I don't usually have the motivation to tediously go through changing tense. Personally I don't find it a problem when things are written in present tense, but I except I'm probably in the minority on this.
I agree that not every paragraph needs an attribution (a mistake I've also made). However, the opposite is also true. I have read dialogue exchanges between two people where you may have fifteen or twenty passages of text with no attribution, and it can become difficult to keep track of the flip-flopping of speakers if the is no clarification during a long conversation. I have in the past had to reread passages and count paragraphs to work out who said what.
I can think of very few instances where it would be logical to include the thoughts/musings of more than one person in a single paragraph. The only time I can think you may be able to do it without it become confusing is if the responses are exceptional short and splitting them might make a number of exceedingly short paragraphs. Even then I would usually try to think of an alternative. For example:
I haven't come across the noun first rule. I think it depends on the nouns and verbs used and what sounds right. Some simply lend themselves to be the other way round.
I haven't read Hunger Games to know how many characters are in it. I would say that any more than five or six main characters becomes a problem. The more characters you have the more difficult it becomes to flesh them out and do development on them. Therefore to keep the story focused you need to keep the main characters to a minimum. You can have a lot of supporting people, as long as as they are not taking up large chunks of the focus. I read both the Famous Five and the Secret Seven during childhood, but can remember the former much better than the latter as because of the more tightly focused group.
Language style is always subjective and different people will always have different preferences when reading and writing. I tend to write the way I feel comfortable and just hope it isn't too off-putting for my readers. I seem to get a fair amount of readership, so I can't be doing too badly.
D.L.
Why the Hunger Games movie is worth seeing
My two-cent critique of Hunger Games is that it was written like a below-average old-school YA novel but contained none of the charm or plot material of a current YA novel. Besides the blockbusters like Rowling, there are solid YA authors like Sarah Dessen who have "better than Hunger Games" technique. A simple story like "Along for the Ride" is a good example. I thought Hunger Games had a great hook, a great pitch, as they say (although not YA material); but the execution was so-so. Collins does know how to hang them cliffs, though ...
BUT! The movie stars Jennifer Lawrence, who is the most amazing young actress. Do not be put off by her giggly thing on talk shows while making the circuit for Hunger Games, or the bits of her we see in the Hunger Games trailer. She has deep talent and raw power.
If you have no interest in the Hunger Games movie, do see the indie "Winter's Bone", for which she was nominated for a Best Actress Oscar. The film itself is stunning; she's a rural Missouri girl that must track down her meth-cooker father or lose the family farm. It's hard to believe these people actually live in modern America. The movie has a documentary-like reality and incredible acting by Jennifer and also John Hawkes as her uncle. See it!
Karin
Rule 7
When I did the sequel to God Bless the Child and gave the Milan's a second daughter I originally named the character Melody. The problem was the Mom's name was Melissa. The names were so close that I knew I had to change it to keep things straight. When I named other characters I kept in mind not to confuse people with similar names.
Katie Leone (Katie-Leone.com)
Writing is what you do when you put pen to paper, being an author is what you do when you bring words to life