I rarely read serials because of the high percentage that are never completed. If I do read a serial, it's after the entire story has been posted.
That's just my preference after two decades of being left hanging out to dry by well-meaning authors who either got bored with the story, or wrote themselves into a corner, or simply had better things to do.
Just today a blog indicated frustration for a story on FM that was apparently quite good but never completed.
I wonder if we could establish an ethical standard on BC for serialized stories that would allow authors to produce fanfic after a period of time if a work is abandoned?
Never having posted a story that I had not completed I don't have a dog in the fight. I do think people like me would be more apt to read a serial knowing that it would have an increased chance of being brought to an end . . . by someone.
Please understand I was the fourth of six children and wore a LOT of hand-me-downs.
What are your thoughts?
Jill
Comments
Incomplete stories are a real PITA
That's why I'm like Angela on this. I too never post anything here that isn't complete before I start posting. Well, there was one story but I didn't like the ending so I re-wrote it while I was posting other parts but essentially it was complete.
Taking over and finishing something does have copyright implications so unless the author has specifically granted that right, I think it might be frowned upon. You can blame that darned Mouse and Hollywood for this. IIRCC, the term in the use is currently death + 75 years.
Erin might be able to change the terms on which stories are posted here so that after a period of 'just hanging' the story can be completed. But it would be good to get a majority of those who post here behind her in this.
Great Idea Angela.
Samantha
PS
I hereby grant anyone the rights to continue my stories after I pop my clogs or I don't post here for 5 years. As long as my attribution is carried foreward, I don't mind.
Hopefully that won't be for a while yet.
Have you actually read
Have you actually read anything into copyrights? It doesn't sound like have because you are complaining about the US when the US copyrights don't mean crap in other countries.
I'm told STFU more times in a day than most people get told in a lifetime
Copyright Jurisdiction
I agree that US Copyright Laws really don't mean shit in other countries but that is not the point. This site is based in the USA therefore AFAIK, US Copyright laws apply at the point of publication (see below). Copyright is a murky business. Just look at the spat between Oracle and Google over copyright.
I do know a bit about copyright from bitter experience as I've had a number of photographs stolen over the years and then published in the USA and in one case, the thieves have had the temerity to send me a DMCA takedown notice knowing full well that I don't have the funds to take them to court in the USA. As a result, I now no longer have any of my wildlife and landscape photos in any photo Library or anywhere that a printable image beyond 6x4 is available. Sadly, the recent advances in image processing mean that I may have to remove what is there because it is now possible to take a 6x4 JPEG image and make a very, very 16x12 image from it.
The DMCA takedown was for an image that I took in Patagonia (Patagonian Fox killing a Duck). I had a full negative strip of the event. I sent contact prints to the publisher and the fake copy was removed. After the fourth time I just gave up and removed my photos from libraries and the Internet.
but, this is getting very off-topic.
Samantha
I again reiterate have you
I again reiterate have you actually read the reasons for the extensions?
The extensions were about artists' families retaining the rights to the works. Disney is still a family business when the extension to 75 years was enacted. His brothers, children, grandchildren, nieces, and nephews had a stake in the extension of the copyrights to Walt's creations. Same for many of the Hollywood production companies especially the screenwriters and movie studios. Why should their hard work be lost to their families after they die?
I'm told STFU more times in a day than most people get told in a lifetime
The reasons are purely $$$$$
When was the last Mouse cartoon released?
What the extensions mean is that if the estate of an author don't want anyone to produce further works using the characters etc that were used by the artist then they can block it or demand huge financial rewards for a period of 75 years after the death of thr artist.
If an author has made it clear that their work are say 'Public doman' after their death the extension does not apply.
I've made that clear. As I don't sell my written work, my heirs have no financial interest in my writing.
But, as always, IANAL.
Samantha
And your problem is what?
And your problem is what?
Seriously, what is the issue since the law makes no difference between the estate of one person and a corporation. What is your real issue here?
I'm told STFU more times in a day than most people get told in a lifetime
so
How would you classify my Gaby and Nena stories (for example)?
They are both written by the book and only complete books are posted here. However whilst Nena could stop where it is, Gaby is an ongoing saga so would you not read any of it as it's not got a hard end or would you read the complete books?
I have to agree that starting to read a serialised story only for it to grind to a halt part way is really frustrating, one reason that I only post 'completed' works these days (well okay, Trixie isn't finished with but that's a rarity and posted by demand!)
Mads
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Jamie and the Peach
This is another Maddy Bell story I would love to see more of too. (And on that thought I just stopped and re-read some of it before coming back to this note.)
Personally I'm "fine" with serialized stories that end suddenly. As frustrating as it is, I have yet to come across one that I cared about where I decided I would have preferred to have not read it at all than to read it and suddenly have it stop.
But it IS frustrating. So frustrating.
A New Approach
I agree, there are several serial stories that have not finished that I really liked. I thought as the chapters were posted, they became copy written.
But, you suggest an agreement between the authors and BC that would allow the story to be finished by a BC approved writer.
Sounds good to me.
Karen
I don't think there is an issue
Given it is fanfic all it borrows is the characters and there is such a tradition of various fanfic genres that it must come under fair use if there is no commercial exploitation.
You Asked, Maddy
I've read a lot of your work. I consider most of what you write to be self-contained modules. They're enjoyable whether read as a standalone story or as part of a series.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
The ideal got merits.
Personally I would ask for a "Fan-Fic" tag and a a notification (beginning or end of the post) Stating it is a fan-fic of that author work.
On the subject of "dead" serials, I mostly take is just as that a death. The tale cross the street, the bus didn't stop in time. Sad - Yes! Expected - No! That's life - Yes!
Peace and Love tmf
One from column A and one from column B
When I first started writing and an idea came to mind, I would scribble it out and immediately post it whether it was done or not. I still make that mistake occasionally, ie: "Portrait". [I was going along with a full head of steam loving my couple and one day realized that it was all about characterization without a plot. So, after ten chapters, it sits.]
I kind of did that with Wildcats. I was reading a chapter story on FM and didn't like where it was headed, so the first three chapters of "The Wildcats" was almost fan fiction (just different characters, a different plot, and a different setting - but kinda the same?). After I got that far I realized I had something there and let it develop. But, I still wrote one chapter at a time. I wrote myself into several corners and got lost here and there. The FM story became the skeleton for "the Wildcats" (notice the lower case t) when it came to Big Closet. But, it was a finished novel when it came here.
When Doppler published it on Amazon, I had rewritten it again for the third time and it became "Wildcats" (thank you, Erin).
It takes much more willpower to write an entire novel and then release it one chapter at a time. I did that with "Metamorphosis - A Jessica Jade Story" and with my short story "Nanites" which morphed into the novel "Copy. Cure." on Amazon.
While some people say they write for themselves, I don't. I write to entertain and please people. I don't understand the 'I write for myself' mantra. If you write for yourself, why are you posting it for others to read?
I am sure we would all like to see everything tied up very neatly, but FM and BigCloset are places to experiment and fail. I failed with "Portrait" and will likely fail again. I think we have to accept that when we read stories posted here or FM
Only if the author gives
Only if the author gives their blessing. Without it, even plastered as a fanfic it could backfire badly.
The downside of what you are proposing is you could end up like Bikini Beach. It only took one bad story to shut down an author's drive to write stories. ElrodW's amazing creation fizzled out thanks to people ignoring the structure and basics of the series and turned it into something that was nothing like the original. Thankfully that's turned around, but it's still a lesson in how this idea could go wrong.
I'm told STFU more times in a day than most people get told in a lifetime
Serials
I've been shying away from serializing any more stories. It just takes too long to write them as distractions from other ideas popping up and inspiration drying up. I was very unhappy with myself that it took 19 chapters and 11 years to complete Office Bet. If I don't serialize the story, then nobody is left hanging until I finish it. To me, a sequel isn't really a serial since originally I wasn't planning on continuing the story.
I don't have a problem per se with fan fiction as long as it's understood by that writer and the reader that their story line isn't canon. A long time ago on Sapphire's Place, Sapphire asked if I'd mind if she posted a few chapters of fan fiction someone wrote to "finish" Reluctant Girlfriend and I said ok, though I hadn't read them first. I just said I wasn't obligated to follow their storyline. That author killed off the father and took the story in a completely different direction. But it did get me writing again.
Melanie
Why not complete it
and then post the chapters on a regular basis?
What Angela is trying to convey is that stories that start but are never finished are a PITA. I write the whole story and post it on my blog. Then after some editing, it comes here. Before I start posting here apart from a few minor edits it is complete.
Besides, holding back posting it until complete means that if you do write yourself into a corner, you can go back, delete the rubbish and start again without anyone seeing the rubbish.
Samantha
You asked why
If I don't start posting a longer story before it is finished, it will never get finished. Sometimes it still doesn't get finished. But I am a performance artist, doing it in front of an audience is part of the reward. Otherwise, someone would have to pay me to write.
Some stories are never going to be finished. That's life. It bothers me but I keep moving.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
I prefer complete stories.
Some stories translate into episodes easily. Maddy does that with her Gaby and Nena stories. But stories that simply are chapters don't, IM(not so)HO. When a new story appears here that isn't complete, if I'm not familiar with the authors work, I'll wait until it is or has a significant amount posted. Even then, I go to check the author page to see of they have a habit of leaving stories hanging or do they complete them in a timely manor.
I've been guilty of doing unauthorized fan fictions. In two cases I had no intention of posting it anywhere, but I really liked the stories and ended up publishing them. The first one was "Christy" (not published here or currently anywhere.) In that story, I published it on my now defunct website with an apology to Julie, the original author and an offer to take it down if she objected. She instead asked me to note in the story where I began the changes; with that she was gracious enough to let me leave it up. The other was "It Was His Mistake ... So Why Am I Dressed This Way" (published on Fictionmania , Storysite and here on on BCTS. A fan fiction from "One Small Mistake" by Rachel Ann Cooper on Fictionmania. This story told the story of a secondary character in the original. Rachel Ann Cooper read and approved that one, hence I published it multiple places. I noted at the beginning of the story it was based on her story and inserted a link to the original.
I think that we could allow that kind of publishing of the story, posted separately with a link to to original, without any problem. Though, the continuation should contain no more than a synopsis of the original so that to fully understand it the original would need to be read and that there would be no "publish for profit" allowed.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin ein femininer Mann
Five Year Rule?
That would be excellent, if it wasn't some across the board "finders keepers" deal like marine salvage law but the something the author could volunteer to tack onto the end of their story, (or chapters thereof); more like carrying an organ donor's card. ("Oi! Can we have your liver there, Guv? Hold still, this won't hurt a bit!")
~ronni
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.