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Well, in a talk with a member of a very conservative religion, I was trying to help him to understand GID folk better. He started off asking if I had been born male and I said that I had actually beem born somewhat both, (Intersexed). He'd never heard of that. So then in the conversaton I told him that I had two natural born children, born to my X. So he said, then you were male. I told him, well sort of. So then he asked me when I first realised that I was sexually attracted to males, and I told him I never was and never actually had penetrative sex with one. (I did not tell him about being raped in juvie) This confused him, but he still seemed to be trying to understand.
Well, then we got down to who I am attracted to sexually, and I said no one. I simply do not have much of a physical sex drive. He seemed unable to separate gender from sexual attraction. By now he seemed to have a few smoking circuits and was confused.
As I thought about the situation later, I realised that I never had sexual attraction to males before SRS, and now I wonder if it was because I just hated them and being one so much?
Well, a few months after SRS, my inner psyche decided to sort this stuff out, and I find myself very cautiously attracted to males, though for one to get my panties off, he would have to be kind, gentle, slow to anger, intelligent, compassionate, young thinking and smell good. It is so hard to go to bed night after night alone. Just one growl or mad word from him and I'd be fleeing like a bunny.
So now that I do not have the sheild of Islam to issolate myself from men, I find that I have no idea at all how to conduct myself around them. In that area, I am probably about as mature as a 5 year old. How do I talk to a man without him getting the idea that I just want to strip off and go at it? Of course at the age of the men I am apt to meet, who is to say he could make good on any alleged threat?
I am supposed to meet this elderly man again in a couple weeks. How will I help him to understand?
One of the young women in that church that I know says that I am the most amazing pioneer by making them think hard about all this lofty stuff they spout forth. Funny, I don't feel brave or like a pioneer.
Gwendolyn
Comments
Doesn't sound odd to me.
I'm physically male and definitely not a homosexual; no attraction to males whatsoever, the reverse if anything. I do not "dress" and have no desire to do so or to transition. I am told I have many female behaviours but never noticed them until they were pointed out to me. However in my dreams (not fantasies, dreams) I am fully female and attracted to both sexes. I have no control over this. So, it does not sound at all odd to me but I don't know if it helps you.
Yes, that's the one.
Oweing to the fact that the internet is mostly anonimous, and I don't care who knows, this whole arena is interesting to contemplate. As a child, I wanted to be a girl, and mom fed that for a long time. Later, as puberty began to ruin my body, I liked orgasims and with girls, though I was much more interested in getting into their pants than getting into their pants. LOL You can figure it out. :)
As I said before, my relationship with males was that I thought they were all knuckle dragging apes. The whole, my dick is bigger than yours, my truck is better than yours, my woman is better than yours thing just irritated me to no end. Even before I knew a damn thing about GID, I'd been told by a woman or two that I was more feminine than they.
However, I liked taking risks and having adventure in the form of things like white water rafting, motorcycle riding, lumberjacking, and a whole bunch of other high risk stuff as long as it did not involve contact sports. Almost any other man could beat me at almost anything. Colaborative activites were really fun for me. And starting with my older brothers and stepfather, I felt that males were just mean through and through; bullies of the lowest order.
In retrospect, I think that my high risk activities were simply a death wish. I have heard the same from others.
Recently, I have realised that with the absence of Testosterone, and having lived the life for a while, the right man could walk into my life and capture me with ease. I'd prefer a non-drinker, non-smoker, non-cusser, gentle, educated ... my intelectual superior, and slightly dominant. Someone who could catch me in my bad moments and make me behave; someone who could make me cry and then comfort me. Sigh, I guess they don't make them that way.
G
For one thing...
...I do find you to be more of a pioneer and braver than you may yourself. You already know that everyone's transition is different, so it's still like exploration even though you're post SRS for a bit of time. What makes you so appealing is your candor; I would expect that being yourself is as good as anyone can get regarding communication and helping others to understand. I'm excited for you, and I'm confident that when the time comes again, you'll know what to say and just how to say it. God bless, dear one!
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
Be honest
I think the 'simple' answer in explaining it to someone else is to just be honest about it... and let them know that's its not simple. There are no black and white answers for either gender or sexuality (or a number of other aspects of adult human existence) and only foolish denial of the facts lets our society continue to function as if there were. The human psyche is far too complex, influenced by genetics at birth and the ongoing health and development of the body... and also by our experiences and interactions with others throughout our life... to possibly have two people with identical presentation of themselves as individuals within society. And yet, here we are with millennia of people drawing this more or less absolute dividing line down the middle.
It's like claiming that if you cannot see anything in the room, there is no light source. I'm sure most of us can work out at least a half dozen ways that that statement could be false, if we just acknowledge that another perspective is possible. For example, nothing in the statement says you're even on the same planet as the room... and I'd personally be more interested if you could see things in the room while being on another planet than whether there was a light source or not. :)
Kristin Darken
Hi Gwen. I have had this
Hi Gwen. I have had this discussion more than once, and sometimes it is about as effective as convincing a post terrapin to get off his post. Your elderly gentleman's problem at its basic may be that he views sexual orientation and gender as a choice rather than an inborn quality, and as a person with a Christian background, he may view it as a moral choice. Below is what has worked for me a few times in explanation.
Intersex, whether expressed physically or as being TS, can best be understood by non's as a birth defect. The incidence is the same within a few tenths of a percentage point in all populations, and there are many kinds of intersex with different, specific causes, some genetic, some hormonal, some with the basis in external "medicines" given with the best of intent. With that said, it can be compared to cleft palette, thalidomine babies (trying to relate it to something he may know of where the condition possibly can be the result of external forces, such as the DES drug to prevent mis-carriages), or being born near sighted, or blind or being left handed in a right handed world, or too tall to fit chairs or beds made for "normal" people. The main thing is to help him understand that neither gender nor sexual orientation is a choice that people made, nor is it something we can easily modify, only adapt to.
The often stated opinion by many conservative types and others that just can't comprehend what they are being told is that being "normal" (read as behaving normal) is a matter of will. Just decide to be normal and live that way, and all will be well, is their veiw. It is typified by the reparative therapy of Ken Zucker, and the religous claptrap basis of trying to cure gays with greater belief in God. The fact that many of us tried it for years and failed is not a value judgement, but is a fact usually ignored by these folks. There are no cases of being able to will a cleft palette away, nor nearsightedness, or any other genetic or hormonal defect. Surgery can be used to correct a cleft palette, near-sightedness can be corrected with glasses or some form of surgery, and these are accepted by the world of normal people since it affects them. When it comes to being intersexed, TS, or gay, the veil of judgmentalism comes into play, and because it is viewed as sexual in nature by the masses and therefore vaguely "nasty", and only affect others (not themselves) it is made more difficult to get corrective help and/or be accepted.
Since the brain can't be changed at this point, then the body must be corrected to remove as much of the pain as possible in the case of intersexed or TS, while sexual orientation needs to be seen as a part of a normal range of human sexual behavior that population studies indicate it is. To try to pretend it away just DOES NOT work, and living in denial brings about all kinds of physical ailments from stress heart attacks and high blood pressure to suicide.
Point out that being part of a minority that is so looked down upon by "normal" and therefore judgemental people, such as most Christians, would not be something anyone would choose to do. Due to these social pressures, we would have wished to have been born normal if we could, or change to normal if that were possible. The emotional pain brought about by rejection from being intersexed or TS, or gay, or just different is something we would avoid, but it is not some simplistic choice. It is just part of us.
Good luck.
CaroL
CaroL
talking with a member of a very conservative religion
I admire your courage at making the attempt. Making a case to someone like that is difficult for a couple of reasons.
When you say 'conservative religion', the arena is set in a pretty fixed place. Most religions are held together with dogma. A set of fixed points of belief (from their perspective read 'facts') provide the basis and structure for their faith. Such a person is not likely to be able to accept anything other than god creating everything as male and female. No deviations, no exceptions, despite fairly easily observable examples in creation.
In a way, one can't fault such people as this dogma gives them a way of dealing with the universe; a place for them to stand and feel somewhat safe. The universe is a pretty scary place. Having a set of rules to follow helps to make it a less scary place.
If you compare how you feel now about interactions with men to how you felt when you embraced Islam, I think you can see what difference religion can make to one's life.
When such beliefs are challenged, some become frightened; others follow that fear to anger.
I applaud your effort to enlighten another. That is a noble thing to do. And, remarkably, sometimes it pays off.
As to how you feel about your social interactions now, I think it's normal to feel immature. When I finally let Janet out into the world, she was very young and very vulnerable; a little girl of about five. As she gained experience, she aged and matured. (Sorry for referring to myself in the third person, but I think it helped get the point across.)
I would suggest that you will gain similar experience as time passes. You seem to have most of the important lessons available to you. You don't want to get stuck with some creep.
Janet
Mistress of the Guild of Evil [Strawberry] Blonde Proofreaders
To be or not to be... ask Schrodinger's cat.
Janet
Mistress of the Guild of Evil [Strawberry] Blonde Proofreaders
To be or not to be... ask Schrodinger's cat.
I'm almost exactly where you are, hon
I have never been attracted to men, perhaps in part due to the rapes. And yet, the closer I get to full womanhood the idea of a male partner seems at least less horrible than before. But its like you said, gender identity and orientation are not the same. Keep evolving, and if the right person of either gender comes along and wants to join the journey, then all the better.
Dorothycolleen
There's nothing simple about you Gwen,
however, I don't understand why you need to explain or justify yourself to anyone. That fact that you are you is surely enough. If they don't like they'll have to lump it because you have just as much right to anything as they do.
Angharad
Angharad
I love God.
And that sometimes is a handicap to me not so much because of those who do not believe in God, but because of those who do believe in God. Many religious view me and those like me with disdain because we challenge their pat little ideas of how things should be. I think that one of the initial foundations of religion was like a pacifier that a baby sucks on and was to ease our sense of insecurity at finding the grand scale of the universe. So, in spite of the fact that religion was founded on faulty beliefs, it does not mean that God does not exist.
So, since many of the religious view themselves as superior, I do not mind trying to show them that many of them do not live up to their own stated principles. So, it falls to someone the onerous duty to hold said people's feet to the fire over their inconsistent attitudes. Astonishingly, it seems that I am one of those people, and happily I know enough about the Bible and religion in general to know some of the places where hypocracy dwells in their very midst.
I am currently nearly paralised with astonishment because I have ineptly stumbled upon a sect who seems to actually want to try to do what their stated principles dictate they do!
More on the news at 5 o'clock.
Gwendolyn
God Also Loves You
When studying the teachings of a religion you have to filter it through what Christ taught.
Love thy neighbor as thyself.
If the teaching of a religion violates that rule the religion is bogus.
And don't fall for the unadulterated crap about "Oh we love you, it's just that one part of you that's an abomination."
Christ spent a lifetime on Earth and didn't utter any recorded words about GBLT. Do you believe that was an oversight?
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
God Also Loves You
What about Matthew 19:12? Andrea James' page on Religion, Spirituality, and Transexuality discusses this as well as other issues.
http://www.tsroadmap.com/mental/spirit.html
You are Gwen
A Nice ride around Manchester to finish off the Sparkle weekend.
Just by being who you are and doing what you have done, you are a pioneer. You are talking courses and addressing issues amongst closed minds and, (so it seems according to those younger ladies in your new church), forcing those older male minds to look inwards upon themselves. That in itself is pioneering work even if you feel it doesn't require that much courage.
You seem part-way to enlightening some by getting them to realise that gender and sexual attraction are not necessarily the same thing. If you teach them this and this alone, you have made progress in one small corner of one small church and it is by these little steps we slowly progress.
Just MAKE THEM THINK Gwen and you will have moved one more pebble from the mountain.
Keep plugging away.
Love and hugs.
Beverly.
OXOXOX
(But be careful!) There fragile egos sometimes can't take it.
Gwen
Most Religious folks forget what God wants, ALL religions,. HE/SHE is about love, forgivness, and compassion.
Most folks today wish to catagorise people so that they fit into there places THEY were taught. Most seem to forget the basic tenants of the scriptures, Bible or Koran, and tend to judge ones sins agianst the one God.
If you are concerned for religious reasons than go back to your Book with out instruction. If you are concerned for moral reasons than go back to your Book with out instruction.
God is easy, stop listening and start reading. Live with love and forgiveness!
Gay or or not who cares? God DOES NOT!
You live as woman but you fear male love. You live as a woman but you fear female love.
LOVE. True love. I shall DIE for you love. LOVE. It's what's Gods talking about.. Always has been Always will be.
NO MAN of Flesh can Judge your heart, sins, only God. Last I checked He wanted Peace, Love, and forgiveness, and the THOUGHT was the sin! If the thought counts than we ALL have committed most if not ALL of breaches, sins, the 10 comandments.
Go live in Love and Peace. Those that can not grasp such simple ways well...God LOVES ME :)
Muslim, Jew, Hindi, Christian, Native american, Budist. All have the same teachings. Forgiveness and Love. All One God. Different ways and means. Mine is not better. Yours is not wrong. With Forgiveness and love ALL are equal, as ALL TEACH!!!!!
Remember that God ( The Book ) is ALWAYS corrupted by those whose blood flows. Man will always slant the book to his pocket book or power base.
James
PS: Get out of yer house and meet people. Shag Whome You wish, do it with love.
P.P.S. Organized religion sucks. It is just to simple for the simple minded to follow.
Shed your fears Gwen God ONLY will Judge, and not by our standards.
Just be yourself
In my honest opinion most people automatically connect any thing that is not relative to a hetero sexual reationship as they know it must be gay.
Its taken me a long time to get across to people that I was born intersexed, I did not choose it and my feelings are that of a genetic female.
I can do the simple engine wrok on a car and can if need to with a manual go beyond the basics. I don't see being a mechanic as a male position.
As I grew up I volunteered for things that were extremely dangerous, I was suicidal but did not even know it.
I'm at the point that if someone doesn't understand Intersexed I will tell them if they would like I'll explain it as it pertains to me. They can ask all the questions they want and when I think they are getting too personal I will let them know.
You are not gay, you psyche and hormones dictate female, ergo you are a female.
Jill Micayla
Be kinder than necessary,Because everyone you meet
Is fighting some kind of battle.
Jill Micayla
Be kinder than necessary,Because everyone you meet
Is fighting some kind of battle.