Well, out of organised religion…
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Comments
O.M.G.
Cripes, YCR do appear to be a bunch of nutters (to put it mildly), and (mericfully) nearly all the commentators agree.
I have nothing against religion per se - after all, the central codes of Judeo-Christian law (10 Commandments, Jesus' three laws [of which two were summaries of the original 10]) were all about tolerance and respect. Jesus himself made a point of hanging out with society's outcasts.
The problems seem to start when religion starts getting organised. Once the initial charismatic leader is long gone, subsequent leaders of faiths feel the need to stamp their own beliefs, attitudes and prejudices on the faith. And in several cases, disagreements over what the original leader intended have resulted in splits - Christianity, in particular, is facing the prospect of its umpteenth breakaway faction from the Anglican church now that the General Synod have approved the ordination of female bishops (about time, too!). A prospect which is making a certain German-born priest, now based in Rome, rub his hands with glee at the prospect of hundreds of new recruits to his more paternalistic (and possibly misogynistic) branch of the faith.
Especially after seeing biblical quotes used to support both sides of the argument, I'm reminded of the truism "You can prove anything you want with statistics." Presumably the same could also be said for religious texts...
EAFOAB Episode Summaries
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
I don't think
there's any doubt about the misogyny of the German priest and his cohorts, he even left Mary Magdalene out of his recent tract on the disciples.
As for proving anything with religious texts; I personally, would have thought the opposite is true, they prove nothing because they are all based on subjective experience, so like Schroedinger's cat they could be true or not at the same time.
I have no problem with personal testament except when we are told we should feel the same, or what we should feel. And those who threaten with religion, are the sickest of the lot, and they all have people who do it, especially the ex-Hitler Youth guy. (Ordaining women is as big a sin as sexually abusing children - get real grandad(oops sorry you don't have kids) this is the C21st.
Angharad.
Angharad
I personally don't like him because:
1. He was and is personally involved in the cover-up of the sexual abuse cases involving priests, insisting that the church has the exclusive authority to judge these matters and concealing evidence of criminal actions behind a obdurate wall of secrecy.
2. Was and is a coward, insisting -- in the face of ample evidence to the contrary -- that it was "impossible" to resist the Nazi regime, ignoring the brave members of the White Rose (die Weiße Rose) and many other German resistance workers, including Claus Graf von Stauffenberg and the other members of the July 20 plot of 1944 in which serving officers and men of the German military attempted to assassinate Adolf Hitler and were executed, including, oddly enough, Colonel General Friedrich Fromm, who betrayed the conspirators through cowardice, and was executed on the personal order of Hitler as a coward. Thousands of Germans were executed by the Nazi regime for their resistance activities; Herr Ratzinger didn't happen to be amongst them, because he did nothing, even when he was assigned to guard a slave labour factory in which human beings were systematically being starved. It's perfectly human to be frightened, but it's cowardly to excuse one's lack of spine by saying, "No one could resist." He's a lying cur, and lacks the figurative balls he insists are literally necessary to be a priest in his church. You shall not stand idly by your brother's blood. (Leviticus 19:16)
The White Rose: A Lesson in Dissent
The White Rose on Wikipedia
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
An example of what you just cited perhaps
...there were many people of faith who resisted the Nazis, including Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer
Bonhoeffer and others paid the ultimate price.
She was born for all the wrong reasons but grew up for all the right ones.
Con grande amore e di affetto, Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
Proving anything...
Of course, in reality, you can't prove anything with religious texts, but give a text to an ardent believer in the text (from either the conservative or liberal wing) and they'll find texts to "prove" their philosophy is "correct".
As for the chap in a snazzy palace in Rome, his organisation is effectively the last remnant of the Roman Empire, and the CDF is the descendent of the Inquisition. Of course, two of the many problems with that organisation is that it is a giant autocracy, and many in upper management have a similar philosophy to their boss. So even if the current boss left the company (so to speak) and by some fluke a liberal got elected, trying to drag the organisation into the 21st century would be like changing the course of a supertanker while the rest of the crew tried to do everything in their power to maintain course. Oh well, perhaps the influx of (usually married) Anglicans will at least allow them to look at the issue of celibacy - some won't be happy that there'll effectively be two different and partially antagonistic sets of rules within the same organisation.
Interestingly, I once heard a theory that one reason for the recent conservative tone is that it allows them to compete against the Evangelicals in places like Africa and Latin America, where membership is apparently rising (unlike the Western world, where IIRC membership is decreasing)
EAFOAB Episode Summaries
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
>> when religion starts getting organised
...it's a cash cow, and the farmers milk it for all it's worth. There's a reason the Pope lives in a palace, along with his entourage, whilst Jesus lived by the wayside and begged for his supper. They're pretty much all the same in this, and diamond pinky rings and vast estates the hallmark of religious leaders almost everywhere.
Cheers,
Puddin'
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
I didn't realise I was a trend setter
only I did it quietly and called it growing up.
Angharad
Angharad
This has been a great discussion
I touch on many of these issues in some of my stories. They reflect some of the characters, but not all.
"I have few (religious) beliefs. Too many beliefs tend to obscure reality."
"In any religious war, both sides are invariably wrong."
Let the spears and arrows fly.
Portia
Portia