Something I would like to ask. The only real novel length work I have written is The Surgeon's Lodger.
I am in the process of re-writing it and tidying it up. Should I cut the sex scenes and just make a reference to making love, but not include detail?
It is a trans romance. When I wrote it, a year ago, I still had the idea that everything I wrote had to have sex in it. I though people wouldn't read it otherwise.
Comments
A little advice
Are sex scenes needed? No.
'made love' is OK.
It depends on two things:
1. How necessary is the sex scene
2. How well do you write sex scenes?
Red MacDonald
Exactly
Are such scenes necessary? Do they advance the plot? If removed, does that leave a narrative hole?
Explicicity
Word I made up...
Amplifying my comment, now that I have more time.
I write love stories, in the main (under 'Cyclist' as well as 'Steph C') and I usually try to make them as real as I can. The process I use in my writing starts with building a character, and then following what that character's personality tells me. Someone else here (I didn't note the name) made the vital observation that characters' actions should be consistent with their personality.
My books are full of sex, but it is implied rather than graphically 'insert tab B into slot A' depicted. As one commenter put it, I tend to leave the audience at the bedroom door, but I make it very, very clear what is going on. As an example, when one character finally goes all the way, post surgery, and she and her man screw like weasels on the hallway floor, I simply say "... as I discovered exactly how good Dr Syllables was at his craft"
In another book, when a similar occasion takes place, the action is revisited by comments from a house guest as to how vocal the central character got:
" 'Make me come' could be explained away, but not 'Fuck me, fuck my brains out'!"
In simple terms, my books are full of sex, but I personally don't feel the need to describe it in detail unless that is essential. Three contrasting examples:
In 'Playtime', the act of sexual intercourse, specifically penetration, is essential to the plot.
In 'Hard Memory;, the attitude of the characters to sex is part of making them all come across as extremely unpleasant people.
In 'Sweat and Tears', and possibly to a lesser extent in 'Lifeline', I had to describe rape. I kept it as simple as possible, but what I did go into were the after effects.
In the end, I prefer to describe how people are feeling, especially about each other, rather than what their anatomy is engaged in.
Sex scenes are hard to write
Capturing the spontaneity of the act in words is hard. Do what you think is right but in many cases just setting the scene is enough for the reader to fill in the blanks.
TBH, reading about the physical act bores me to tears just like pron movies but that is just me.
If you are happy with the scenes then leave them in. It is your choce.
Samantha
Sex is up to the author and the readers
I'm with Sam on this one. I seldom leave a comment for stories buried in explicit sex. I know a lot of readers like it just as voyeurs enjoy pics of naked women and porn. I'm not going to say there is a yes or no answer to this one as so many enjoy writing about bondage, sex, porn, just as others write about heroes and heroines and overcoming everyday life problems with a twist. There are writers to provide and readers to read every type of story. I'm not into bondage any more than I am gratuitous sex scenes. Yet, Sam wrote a beautiful bondage story that captured my imagination all the way through. A year back I started a bondage story yet to be finished and it's damn graphic. Sometimes we writers have the wrong ghost writer visit us and we are compelled to write something we normally wouldn't touch.
Leeanna, what you write and how you write is your choice and up to your readers. No matter what you write you will have readers. The best advice I can give is write what you feel. You'll have one very loyal reader. Yourself and when it comes down to it, life is too short to worry what others think. If they like you or hate you that's their problem not yours. Can't please everyone, don't even try.
Love you Leeanna
Barb
Life is meant to be lived, not worn until it's worn out.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Is it erotica or not?
I agree with Red on this. Except for explicit erotica, sex scenes are usually not needed. And most of the time they either feel gratuitous, crass, revolting or like they are inflating the word count.
On the other hand, using the phrase "make love" as a synonym for "intercourse" or "having sex", to me personally, feels like rape of the term "love". Because for me, at least, "love" is something that starts with respect, appreciation, affection and selflessness, but also includes looking out for the other, putting the well-being of the other above one self, helping even in adversity and having the loved-ones back. True love is more a decision that goes way beyond a feeling that generally is only fleeting and prone to the whim of the moment.
Having sex is one aspect of expressing love. Though, more often than not (unfortunately), having sex seem to be more about lust, self-gratification, power, control, lack of self-discipline, vengeance and/or pure sadism.
And from a story perspective, I find that "innuendo" and keeping it wage is far more stimulating and satisfying than a long and explicit description of the mechanics of intercourse. Some foreplay to set the mood is OK, but then pull a gauzy veil over the very personal and intimate act itself.
Remember, a woman in a dress with a deep decollete and a high slit skirt is usually far more erotic and enticing that one who is completely naked. The human imagination, more often than not, is revved far more by careful cover-ups than by blatant revelations.
for me personally
sex scenes are a big turn off!
I've been there, done that, got the offspring to prove it, i don't need pages of 'sex education' to know the mechanics. As others have said, innuendo is more than enough, as soon as you start writing a manual on the subject i either skip forward or stop reading completely. But its your story, at the end of the day only you can decide what you want in there.
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Erotic???
I have been thinking about this lately as I have joined a group on Patreon called "Erotic Creators" because LGBTQ fiction is erotic.
But is it? Why? I write transgender romances, so what makes them erotic? It is the word "transgender".
Most of my characters fall in love and want nothing more than a life with love in it - who doesn't want that?
But I do include sex scenes where the story takes me into detail. Sex at its best is an expression of love.
If it is too hard to write then maybe you shouldn't bother, but if the story needs it, try to write it as well as you can.
In my view you should not change "They fucked like there was no tomorrow" to "they made love as if the universe did not exist" just to make it sound less visceral. Sometimes a story calls for a good fuck. People understand that I value brevity and there is nothing wrong with those Chaucerian monosyllables.
In some ways I object to the fact that even a kiss between me and a man is erotic because it is LGBTQ, but sometimes I want it to be.
Maryanne
Thank you for the advice. The
Thank you for the advice. The way I write stories is influenced by what I used to read. The sites with trans stories are mostly sex stories. I often wrote a plot just to achieve a sex scene.
I used to think that no one would read a story without a semi-graphic sexual encounter. While I have no problem writing sex scenes, I realise not everybody is looking for that. On this site, my stories usually do better without them. On some of the other sites, the ones without sex are enjoyed, I get some nice comments, but they are hardly read.
I have gone through the first four chapters again and seen other parts that I didn't like. This is mostly due to writing "one off's". I extended the story if it gets a good reception. This one just went on and on. It got so I tried to end each chapter on a dramatic note.
I am learning as I go. I have only been writing for 2 years. I think the people that enjoy my stories, enjoy the ideas for the plots I have rather than the sex scenes. I do honestly think it is a little boring describing the mechanics of sex. I think I now enjoy trying to write a semi believable plot, rather than a sex scenario.
This site is fairly unique in a way, as many of the stories don't have sex in every chapter, or sex at all.
Leeanna
Sex is a part of life - it ought to be a part of fiction as well
I've read quite a few stories *because* of the sex scenes, and I've written stories explicitly as frames for sex scenes.
Sex is a part of life; it ought to be a part of our stories as well.
Are sex scenes boring? If so, it's not because they are about sex. It's because they weren't written well.
If we have a purely functional approach to story writing, in which every element must "advance the plot," then we'll have to leave out all humor, leave out all descriptive prose -- no landscapes, no buildings, no weather, no feeling -- unless those things "advance the plot." Now, THAT sounds like a recipe for boredom.
News flash: there is more to a story than plot.
- io
Full Disclosure
I'll show you an example of how I handled that question for my second attempt at Tran Romance. "Full Disclosure", which as it happens is a was a second place winner in Big Closet Top Shelf February 2022 "Magic of the Heart" 2022 contest.
There's no doubt that the protagonist is having sex with at least one woman and hinted that he's had or is having sex with two or three others. Yet not once did I mention a body part or sexual act.
I'm not the only one. I'm reading "Retiree" by enduringshades over on Fictionmania. An excerpt when they went on a cruse and checked into their cabin: "'We have a couple of hours to spare. Do you want to check if this so-called super king size bed will be large enough for our forced share?' I asked grinning." Nothing more is said about it before going on with the narrative of what they wore to dinner. That is the typical way sex is handled in that story
I work really hard when writing to dispel the myth that Transgender fiction it Erotica. That's one reason most of my work is rated YA.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin ein femininer Mann
Your erotic passages in this one
seem like they're an organic part of telling what happened and clearly aren't the REASON for The Surgeon's Lodger to exist, so they don't seem gratuitous. To me, anyway, and I'm not a big fan of porn. I'm not offended by it, but I prefer the typical Bigcloset story to the more risque fare at other sites. But as Ive said before, sex scenes actually can contribute to character development (everybody approaches + reacts to sex slightly different) + advance the plot (where they're at in their relationship) if done right, which I believe you do in this story.
But since I seem to be in the minority among the commenters you have to ask yourself do YOU think the story needs it, and whether the story or receiving hits, kudos, comments + accolades are more important to you (comments especially dry up in correlation to erotic content, at least here at BCTS, as if nobody wants to admit to reading erotic fare by signing their name underneath). Or maybe a compromise could be attained by compiling all the juicy, sweaty, grunting & screaming parts ("Unghod YES! FUCK ME, FUCK ME you big manly surgeon-man, you!!") into a separate story or two- The Surgeons Honeymoon, or if you're really going for it: The Surgeon's Tool. Anyway that's my brilliant idea for the day from my remaining few brain cells...
And here's a little sumthin' from blues legend Big Bill Broonzy to set the mood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjJoOy-dJkg
Hugs, Nurse Veronica
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Veronica, you cracked me up.
Veronica, you cracked me up. I read that comment at work on my phone. Couldn't tell them what I was laughing at.
The Adventures of the Surgeon's Implement, Sounds like a carry on. "Oh matron!!"
Leeanna
Need
I'm currently reading a 10yr old story written by an extremely talanted author, possibly one of the top five on BC. At over a hundred chapters, it has a lot of description in it. Sorry to say, most of the sex is superfluous to the story. I estimate the story length could be cut by a third if all the extraneous sex was removed. I've taken to skipping over the sex scenes, they are just not needed.
My suggestion is to keep the graphic sex scenes out of a story unless needed to further the plot. That is actually true of anything in a story. If, for example, the protagonist is a seamstress, we don't generally need to know the particulars of the thread and needle selection. Nor do we need to get into threading the machine.
Everything that goes into a story should be examined with a critical eye: is this needed to advance the story? If not, consider removing it. You can always put it back in if needed.
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
I think part of the problem
I think part of the problem is when read together there is more sex than I intended. I wrote it over 2 months. I think I will tone it down and remove the ones close together.
Thank you all for your help. It seemed to be a provocative subject.
Leeanna
The Story Question
So far the story question appears to be -- Are the surgeon's predilections perverse? As such, the scene you included directly answers the primary question. Seems required.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Thanks Jill. I may tone down
Thanks Jill. I may tone down the more graphic stuff later. It was never like the one I am currently writing though.
Leeanna
SDT
There's always the advice, "Show, don't tell."
On the other hand, it seems as if most readers here wouldn't care for my more disreputable stories. (I don't know if "The Blind Date" qualifies.)
-- Daphne Xu
Can we take the same approach to humor?
Humor in stories is often gratuitous, and rarely advances the plot. Can we please stop larding our stories with unnecessary comic elements? How many times have readers complained about ruining their screens or keyboards by spitting their beverage -- each time provoked by unwanted "humor".
If a reader is hell-bent on finding "funny" stories, aren't there other websites, devoted to that?
If a scene does nothing more than make the reader chuckle, but does nothing to bring us from point A to point B, clearly that scene serves no useful purpose, and should be cut.
Oblique references to humor are fine; the "knowing smile" is quite enough in most cases.
Yours faithfully,
Iolanthe Portmanteaux
Fortunately
my parents shielded my eyes from gratuitous humor whenever anything prurient, objectionable and laugh-inducing appeared on screen. One time they weren't quite quick enough and my innocent eyes caught the beginning of a comic interlude in an otherwise straightforward narrative. I can still remember how dirty I felt. Uggghhh. Mom said these writers get some sort of perverse thrill in making readers laugh out loud and projectile spit coffee. There ought to be a law!
Sammy
Those depraved authors should be banned!!!!
Just imagine, peddling stories with comic content in easy grasp of innocents!!!
And often without warning texts.
Cautionary Keyphrases
There are various cautionary key-phrases available under "Other Keywords":
-- Daphne Xu
One tag I'm always hesitant to add...
I'm always hesitant to add the tag "Humor" to my stories, because -- even though I often laugh like an idiot as I'm writing -- I'm afraid that a reader will look up at some point and wonder when the funny part starts.
- io
Funny cat videos- You'll laff so hard your head will EXPLODE!!!!
...are never as funny to me after a build-up like that. Whether it's a Youtube pet antics compilation, a water cooler anecdote or a work of trans fiction, telling people they're gonna laugh can seriously backfire. It's better to let the reader discover the comedy for theirself; being caught by surprise is half the fun (or I suppose half the disappointment since what's funny or even if "funny" is something you want is a matter of taste) and I definitely have my favorite humorous authors here. And when they're not aiming for the funny-bone these same authors' stuff can be surprisingly moving; and that's a nice surprise too...
~waka waka! V.
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
If I can't put humor in my stories...
.
I'm fucked.
.
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Only if you're a lucky girl!
Only if you're a lucky girl!
Leeanna
Combining the Forbidden Elements
I am presently composing a hilarious sex scene for inclusion in my next story. With giving too much away it involves octopi.
I love breaking all the rules.
Maryanne
Funny sex
Sex is easy. Humor is hard.
Melanie
It All Depends
I am personally lousy at writing sex scenes but if you read a Michele Nylons story (and Michele this is a compliment if you are reading this) then hot steamy pornographic sexual scenes are an integral part of her stories and you have no right to complain if you read them. They do advance the story but I'm sure they don't appeal to the majority of readers here. Either that or they are too ashamed to declare that they like them. I declare that I'm a fan. How they appeal to "the general public" I have no idea. The point is that everything must be taken in context.
I read your original "The Surgeon's Lodger" and the sex scenes neither disgusted me nor particularly had me masturbating as I read them. I did think that they formed an integral part of the story but for a wider audience you may feel that you want to lighten them up, if only to assist in sales. That's for you to decide. Don't let the prejudices of the BC audience influence your decision.
Thanks Joanne "neither
Thanks Joanne "neither disgusted me nor particularly had me masturbating as I read them." I'll try harder next tie I promise. LOL
I have been reading Michele's stories for years. They do well on FM, but she is a goddess on Literotica. Nearly 3200 followers and almost every story "HOT" rated. I have been chatting with her lately. I love the way she handles sex in her stories.
Leeanna
Characters
Before any consideration, do the acts portrayed fit who your characters are? Then, do the acts align with the overall themes and portrayals of your story? What do you want to say about your characters, and will any depiction of sexual acts fit with that?
Love, Andrea Lena
The story in question is
The story in question is about a trans woman coming to term's that it is ok to be who she is. She had a gay relationship before. She feels the need to satisfy her boyfriend. She feels it justifies her femininity .
Leeanna
Sex scenes
I only really write sex scenes if it works in the flow of the story and feels right for the characters. I use the term sex scenes loosely because when I write them I don't usually don't focus on the act of sex so much as the connection and emotions between the participants. I have written a raunchy scene or two when it was story appropriate but most often I focus on the emotions and the thoughts of my characters and it's more about making love than having sex. If I feel that such a scene is appropriate for the characters and story but that it would break the flow of the story, then I merely refer to it or fade to black. While some of my stories have sexual scenes, I don't like to shoehorn any type of scene in just to try to get readers, I think that my stories should stand on their own, whatever the content.
What you should include depends largely on your personal style, the story you want to tell, the flow of that story, and whether it fits with the characters. That goes for any kind of content. Don't include scenes just because you think it's what readers would like to see, but don't exclude them for that reason either. It's your story and you should write it how you feel it should be written. To hell with whatever others might think.
*big hugs*
Amethyst
Don't take me too seriously. I'm just kitten around. :3
like garlic
Sex scenes are like garlic in cooking. Sometimes you don't need any. Sometimes you need just a pinch. Sometimes it should dominate. It depends on what your cooking or the story you're telling. Like garlic, not everyone agrees on how much is too much.
Literotica is waiting
I'm not looking it up but I doubt that any of my stories have explicit sex. If I get horny well there are other sites waiting.
My stories do well on that
My stories do well on that site Gwen, but that's why people go there. I have had good ratings for my non sex stories, but not many reads.
Leeanna
Sex in stories
I don't know how many of you feel about urban fantasy horror stories. But if you really want to see how sex scenes in a story can be both good and bad. Read stories by Laurell k hamilton, especially her anita blake series and the Star Trek novel she wrote as well. Some of her stories are heavy in sex scenes and what they are doing.
If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it.”
― Toni Morrison