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So, here I am a Woman at last; a year since the surgery; finally having worked up the courage to put my self on the block. Sometimes the way men treat me makes me feel like they think they are buying a slave at the cost of dinner or a cup of coffee. It makes me feel degraded, indignant, and sometimes frightened because I know that if I let myself get into an unsafe place, I could easily be forced.
One man asked me "why I would go to the trouble of getting the operation and then not want to fuck." What does he think I am? One thing I know for sure now is that I want to be valued, talked to, form a pleasant relationship, held tenderly for a period of time before I even want to think about sex.
Another man actually laughed at me for being a Virgin, as if he expected that I would want to be jumping his bones or something. I just don't know how to be with men. Tonight a man I know came over bearing a wonderful steak, and baked beans. We cooked together in my Kitchen, and then sat quietly and ate as we watched a Louis L'Amour movie. It was pleasant company. There was no lightning from heaven; he didn't make me feel weak. He did stop smoking; was it because I told him I am alergic to the smoke? Where is this going; anywhere?
Still, I wondered what we should be talking about. He told me of his time on an Oil rig, his time of being married and his bar brawls. I really did not care about those things but decided to allow him to talk because perhaps he needed to talk.
He tried to draw me into a conversation about what the best gun might be. Mine is strictly to protect me, and certainly not a phalic symbol at all. To me it is a tool just like a skillet or a mixer. I tried to avoid much conversation about it.
I am really needing another woman to help me find my center here; help me figure it out; encourage me to stand by my values. It is not just as simple as some man walking into my life and making me feel dizzy with his pherimones. This process I am in is more disconcerting than coming out was...
Comments
blind leading the...
I mean really Gwen, You're asking us for dating tips. That's a laugh or cry opener if ever I've heard one. I guess having looked at this in my own extremely tentative and slow and steady situation with the non op wrinkle just to, ah, complicate things...
Take it easy, don't rush and be careful with who and where. Only do what you are comfortable with being honest and open with whoever. I will say anyone tries to back me into a corner will suddenly front a feral cat with PMS. Nasty and I'd go down spitting and fighting. Pick a gentleman I think, easier that way and said Gentleman can be an oil worker or a mechanic or a... well anything really. Take care and choose wisely... hah listen to me.
Kristina
At the risk of sounding like a stereotype...
I'm a postop too, married now for some years. But I spent more time than I'd like to think about dating. I'm no expert, but I've been through a few interesting times.
It does occur to me that maybe this is something you should be discussing with women who've had a bit more experience than the one's here.
But if we're what you've got...
The thing is, you don't need to talk. Most guys are happy just to have you listen. If he wants to talk about life on an oil rig, I'd listen - chances are it's been an important experience.
Years ago I knew a guy who had worked on rigs - it really shaped his life. Those are scary social environments. Did you know if you get thrown into the North Sea in winter you have about 3 minutes to live? Unpopular guys don't get found by the rescue divers...
I'm sure rigs in the US are just as dangerous.
But the crucial thing is, are you bored when you're with him, if you're not talking? If so, that's a problem. If not, then no drama. He'll talk when he wants to (or maybe only rarely even then, if he's like my beau).
From what you've said, it sounds like you were bored. So in that case, if you want to see him again, you need to ensure he knows what pleases you.
It's possible he's talking about "guy" things (like guns) because he doesn't know what you're interested in. So be honest. Change the subject. Tell him your feelings about guns. If he wants to keep seeing you, it will be because he's interested in you, not because you are or aren't interested in guns.
Anyway - I'm not exactly an expert. But men aren't really all that complicated. A good ear, a reassuring smile, and a warm body are all most of them want. Many of them are threatened by much more than that.
Hang on to what's important for you. Good luck!
Dot's right!
This is sound advice. Guys like to talk about their experiences, particularly if it reinforces their male self-image. But if he is interested, he'll take some conversational guidence if you supply it. If he runs right over you and goes back to talking about himself, well, then you know, right? It sounds as if this guy was at least making an effort.
He came over to your house? Then was there anything out that could give him a clue about your interests? Travel pictures on the wall, magazines on the coffee table, etc? I've seen so many women who keep a 'sterile' living room, then wonder why the guy doesn't talk about anything she is interested in. I have some selected personal photos of Norway on my wall, a couple of coffee table books on various subjects I'm interested in, plus current magazines I'm reading scattered around. At least a half-dozen possible conversation starters in plain view.
Dot, my father and brother worked on the North Sea rigs. It's more like two minutes max in the winter. In fact, the actual man-overboard plan stated that in the winter a search was to be mounted for the "body" of the victim. It was assumed that there was no way he'd survive, hypothermia sets in just a few seconds after immersion. :-(
Karen J.
"Being a girl is wonderful and to torture someone into that would be like the exact opposite of what it's like. I don’t know how anyone could act that way." College Girl - poetheather
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
I have to agree
Men have 'gut feelings', females have 'woman's intuition.' If something a man does or says makes you feel uncomfortable, most likely he's out for one thing only. On the other hand, if what a man does or says makes you comfortable and easy going, then most likely you'll be all right.
Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself and what you think is right. This is your life and your body. Don't let anyone take advantage of it. I have seen too many friends, as well as myself, hurt because we thought we could only be loved if they had a man in our life. All I can say, is I'm glad I waited for the right one to come along. Waiting isn't such a bad thing when it means you are learning about yourself and what you want in a relationship.
My sister gave me some great advice. She said to make a list of characteristics you want in a soul mate, then start developing those characteristics in you. There will come a time when the person who has those traits will show up, and you will be ready for him as well.
Maybe it all sounds cliche', but it seemed to work for me.
Smooches,
Paula
Paula Young
A life lived in fear is a life half-lived
Dating
Ah, how I dream of my first date. We hold hands, talk for hours, a pleasant walk in the park...
If I may piggyback on your question Gwen, it might make you feel a bit better to know that in my entire 21 years of life I have never been on a single date, kissed, even held hands with someone I wasn't related to over the age of 6 of either gender. I've always been too scared to try, among other things. Does going on dates as the 'wrong' sex provide any useful experience for once you transition?
Melanie E.
Out of the mouth of babes
I had thought you were older. Hmmm. Please read my "Pray happy for you" in my stories.
Dating as the "wrong sex?" That is interesting. It is a feeling that I have never had, and I have only been "out" in the conventional sense for 4 years. I am a very youthful and imature 61 though no one ever estimates my age over in my 40's. I am making up for lost time since in a sense, my other life was lost time. Maybe I had more of that feeling when dating as a male, giggle!
I have a friend who frequents BC, and I certainly want to hear from her, but I also know that lots of the folk who come here can give fatherly, brotherly, and sisterly advice.
You can all laugh at me if you want, (it is good for the soul) but I never really dated, even as a man. I took two girls out in High School, one date each; no kissing, no necking; neither were impressed with me. I married the next girl and we stayed together for 39 years.
So, I really do have very little experience dating as a Woman. :)
Gwendolyn
Older?
I often have people tell me I look seventeen but talk like I'm closer to thirty.
I read the story? Verse? You recommended. Thank you.
I say 'wrong' sex because of the play between sex, gender, and people's interpretations of them. I'm physically male- if I'm dating a guy, is that a gay relationship? Am I comfortable being seen as a gay male? What does my partner see our relationship as? I'm a girl, and honestly find the idea of being with a gay guy highly unattractive. Gah, confused!
Melanie E.
You will find, dear Gwen ...
... that the adage "you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince" is one of the most useful pieces of dating advice I ever received. There are a lot of men out there looking. Not many of them will make your heart race, and fewer still will be worthy of your love even when every part of you wants to give it without restraint.
I didn't date very much in high school. I was too small -- not fit competition for the taller, more popular girls. I had a brief romance with a boy named Dan, but he wanted more than i wanted to give at that point in my life, and he broke it off when he saw he wouldn't get it. I dated more in college, and the results were much like you experienced. Many men are totally clueless about how a woman thinks or feels, and this lack of knowledge either scares them or makes them arrogant and overconfident. Some were sweet, and gentle, and funny, but the magic wasn't there.
Not that all of the trouble lies with men. I met my future husband at a party neither of us wanted to go to. He had been played with and dumped on emotionally by every woman he'd met before me, and I spent the better part of two years getting him to believe not just that i loved him, but that he was worthy of being loved.
I think the man that shared the evening with you was honestly trying to connect with you. He talked of his past because it was his, and wanted to share it with you as a way of showing you who he was and how he came to be the man you shared an evening with that night. He talked about guns with you because he knew you had one, and thought it might be a topic of interest to you. I'm just speculating here, hon, but i think he was just trying to find something for both of you to share. Did you open up to him at all? Did you share the things that do interest you inside -- the things that make you the woman you are?
I guess the best advice I have to offer is to approach every date as a possible friendship. Learn about this person, and share yourself with them. If a man can't share time with you as a person, then he's not really seeing YOU -- just a woman and what she might represent. If you can connect with him as people, then a time will come when you can share yourself with him as a woman, and know that he's there for you -- just you, Gwen Brown.
*soft hug* It's hard, hon, and men don't ever make it easier. But when it works, it's so worth it. My husband has been my best friend and my dearest love for more than twenty years, and even though he drives me crazy sometimes, he is my life and my world, and i wouldn't have it any other way.
Much love and hopes for happiness,
Randa