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I ask this in all seriousness: should I read the Comics Retcon Universe stories?
So far, I've been rather... reluctant sounds like the right word, but isn't exactly. See, I've read comics off and on over the years, but without a comic store within, oh, two hour's drive of my hometown, I was always limited to either the occasional book I could pick up at the local mom n' pop grocery store or hand me down's from friends and family. As a result, my knowledge of the various heroes and such jumps around from mid-70's to mid-'80's to early '90's, with no real significant concentration in any one hero or even long coherent storylines. For me, reading comics was always more about enjoying the art, because I COULDN'T follow the storylines.
That being said, I know just enough about most of the major heroes' backstories to be able to usually follow along with a conversation about most of the mainstream series...es, and have some minor experience in a number of the other, more B-list heroes. Would this be more of a hindrance, or a help, in trying to follow along with the stories in the Comics Retcon story universe?
With the number of times the various companies have restarted their stories or simply split them off into alternate universes, I doubt there's much risk of me falling into the trap of "you can't do this because it's against blah blah blah" even if I knew what I was talking about, but I also don't want to read something that plays hell with any idea of continuity from the original series. In addition, I tend to be picky about what kind of superhero stories I enjoy, applying not only the same standards that exist in my other preferences, but also a few Hero-centric ones (like the need for joining organizations and such to be by choice -- sorry, but I could never get into The Center partially for that reason, though since I stopped reading early in the first story it might be better by now.)
So, in the readers here's excellent opinions, are the stories, or at least most of them, worth reading? If so, why? If not, why? And also, will we ever get more off the wall heroes (I'd like to read a "Regulators" or "Youngbloods" fanfic finding a fun/interesting reason for TG characters on one of THOSE teams, that would be fun.)
Melanie E.
Take the plunge
I think there is no harm in giving one a try. I do say that as someone who does like superhero stories though! That being said, I do expect the same things from a superhero story as any other story (plot, characterisation, etc.). When it came to the retcon universe I did briefly hesitate slightly before reading the first story because of a 'what if they've done something I don't like to a favourite character' kind of concern. I've not read all the retcon stories, but am happy to say that I have enjoyed all of the ones I have read.
More specifically if you are looking for a recommendation, I'd suggest you try Lilith's excellent Terra story. It doesn't require you to know all the back story to the DC comics character and it's an enjoyable, well written story. Also as it's relatively self-contained it would give you a taste of the universe. And it's my personal favourite of the retcon's.
Alternatively, if you don't enjoy the retcon there are plenty of non-retcon ones on the site you might not yet have read? i.e. Aria Blade, Once the Hero, Urban Renewal, etc.
Hope that helps!
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
Go on!
I think you'll find these stories are a refreshing change from the originals. For a start, they're set in the real world, rather than a fictional city like Metropolis or Gotham. Everyone has weaknesses as well as strengths (and not just the obvious learning to cope with powers AND a gender change). Courtesy of Lynceus, we've got a method of classifying skills / abilities. And last but not least, as they're written in prosaic format rather than graphic, we actually see things from the characters' perspectives - we see what they see, we hear what they hear, we think what they think. We're not just some invisible news crew filming events.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't...
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
Everything both of the previous commenters said and more!
I was never a comic fan, don't know much about em at all, and I've really been enjoying the retcons.
The Center is definitely worth another try, it has grown quite a lot.
Abby
There's no reason why you shouldn't.
But I won't be joining you, probably because US comics hardly figured in my 1940/50s childhood at all and I suspect a lot of it is nostalgia. Now if someone were to write a story involving Alf Tupper or the great Wilson I might just have a look :)
I put up with them partly because I know Erin will get upset if I complain ;) and partly because they're presumably in addition to stories I like rather than replacing them.
Robi
I can kind of agree
That's actually one of the reasons I've been avoiding them is because they ARE so dominant right now. I like superhero stories but... DAMN. The Center, Comics Retcon, and so on are all getting massive postings every week, while other genres are getting little to no screen time not so much because they aren't being written, but because they're getting drowned out by all the superhero stories.
I'm writing a couple of different superhero stories myself, but I'll probably wait to post anything on them until the numbers that are going up right now have calmed back down to a trickle, not just so I don't add to the flood, but also because mine are all in completely self-contained universes, and I don't want anyone to think they're a part of the story universes that are going up right now.
I'm sure eventually the fad will be something else, like teenagers or romance or science fiction, and then we'll be glad to have the superhero stories to fall back on, so I really can't complain. Besides, several of the authors posting in the universes are pretty good, so that makes it a lot easier on the eyes. Any time I see something by Maggie Finson, for instance, even if it's not something that interests me I know it's still something that will be well written.
Melanie E.
The Grass is always Greener
As you pointed out, it's a fad. It will eventually go away or meld into all the other genres.
As far as being drowned out... they are stories, that stay up for the exact same amount of time as other stories. 7 days on the front page, if I'm not mistaken. The only thing I see here is more stories to read. You still have the same choices as you did last time, just more of them, in two categories Sci/Fi and Superheros.
Maybe I'm not understanding the down side here. Out of 25 entries on the Quicklist, 10 of them are Center or CRU stories. This doesn't include the new "Completed Stores" list above that, which is another six. So 21/10 Still keeping in mind that all stories receive the same amount of front page time... well. I don't see the down side.
Perhaps it's because the higher on the Quick List a story is, the more opportunity you have to be read first. I can see that. And with a large influx of stories a single story doesn't stay up there for long. But even that had gone to the wayside over the last couple of months. The number of stories that has been coming in, even before the CRU and Center started was amazing.
Maybe I just count myself lucky that I can pretty much click on BCTS and find a new story I want to read any time I want, instead of clicking on and see the same story I read that morning and nothing new.
Grass is always greener and all that.
~Lili
Blog: http://lilithlangtree.tglibrary.com/
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/lilith_langtree
~Lili
Write the story that you most desperately want to read.
I see what you're saying
And as I said, I understand all that. You're right, the sheer number of stories that BC receives every day is staggering if you really take the time to think about it.
I might read/write primarily serials or multi-part stories, but even I could see how much of a blessing it was when Miss Erin added the "Recent Standalone Stories" list to the top of the page, because multiple serials going on at once does tend to fill the front page of the site with the same stories over and over. Yes, if they weren't posted the site's influx of new material would be DRASTICALLY lower, but it is something that should be recognized.
The current flow of the superhero stories, as I said, is mostly a GOOD THING, since most of the people writing in them are good writers. However, seeing so much of them at once is like watching TV at night and having a back-to-back block of all three CSI series, or multiple Law And Order series back to back. They might be good, but they don't offer a whole lot of variety if that's all that's on.
BUT, this wasn't a forum topic for arguing, it was to ask why should I or should I not read the Comics Retcon stories? Lillith, you usually have really good ideas for stories and are very creative, so that is automatically a plus, but still doesn't really address the questions I had in my topic. From your point of view, do you think I should read the stories? Or, do you think I might not enjoy them. Honesty, please.
Melanie E.
Judging from your points in
Judging from your points in the OP, a sampling might not be out of order. The idea of this universe was to shake up the comics industry and come up with our own characters using the originals as templates. So, in some instances the character you see from decades ago won't be anywhere near the same as what we've already written.
"Terra: Between a Rock and... Another Rock" was mentioned above. It have absolutely nothing in common with the original Terra from the 1980's Teen Titans fame, except for her powers. That's it. And about 2/3 of it doesn't even deal with that.
However others are superpowers and girlie bodies from the virtual get-go. It differs from story to story, and author to author.
The decision is yours, just like every other story. Is the CRU hyped up at the moment. I would say Hell Yeah. I've seen it spark more crap from people in the last week than I have heard from in a long time. People are leaving nasty comments, rude PM's to the authors, rude blogs, but we just keep writing because that's what we're made to do.
Read it if you want. If you don't then don't. It's that simple. It's just like going to the bookstore. I like Fantasy and Sci-fi, but there's this gigantic section in the middle that's just plain fiction. It's just like that. Read the summary, check out the author, if they both sound interesting, click on the link.
If not, move on.
~Lili
Blog: http://lilithlangtree.tglibrary.com/
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/lilith_langtree
~Lili
Write the story that you most desperately want to read.
the grumpy minority?
ahh, you think what does this mean? For or agin? Okay...I am not a fan of Universes. The whole idea of a Lexmark...sorry Canon thing to follow makes me frown and shake my head in dismay. the whole idea of writing to me is to explore and create, not follow others footsteps.
I know some of the characters, even at the other end of the world I got a bit of Captain America and Thor etc. But, hey I was a little kid. I'm sorta growed up now and don't see the point. I read and liked The centre, I haven't and won't look at any others.
So even if I quietly grumble a bit at the whole Retcon thing, each to their own and all that. I'll just smile indulgently and wait. Then as I'm pretty quiet of late I'm not contributing much either way, by comment or story so really at the moment don't have an oar in... Have fun with it kids, just be home for tea.
Kristina
Regarding the original question
I am a Russian - meaning I've never read any of the comic books the characters came from, and my experience with them is limited to seeing some animated series, like Justice League (not Unlimited). So what? I enjoy these stories a lot, and I don't even feel the need to meticulously hunt down all the differences between the Retcons and the Originals. It means, of course, that I can miss some glaring indications of where the story would go - because I don't know the names - and Superia/Free Spirit intro story is a clear example of that. But it also means I can read as if for the first time. And it's a whole another dimension of enjoyment.
Faraway
Big Closet Top Shelf
Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!
Faraway
Big Closet Top Shelf
Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!
I've found the Retcon
I've found the Retcon stories to be really good on the whole. I haven't read many comics myself, but I've enjoyed them anyway. Most of the characters used so far are familiar from one source or another, but some of them were completely new to me. They're still fun, though.
Now if someone would start Retcon-ing Manga/Anime, that would be really interesting... ;)
Saless
"But it is also tradition that times *must* and always do change, my friend." - Eddie Murphy, Coming To America
Ah, but...
Manga are comics too, and as far as I can tell, perfectly legit for the Comics Retcon Universe. I mean, if I can introduce an obscure group of enemies from the Marvel UK line, stories that were hardly even seen in the US, then it stands to reason one could introduce anime-inspired metahumans.
And I'm a big manga freak, so believe me, I'd have no problems writing for such stories. Unfortunately, as some have pointed out (many for, and some against), I'm already juggling quite the stable of characters, so as much as I'd love to introduce Retcon versions of anime characters (God, just thinking about Retcon-Haruhi Suzumiya!), it may have to wait.
Although you have inspired me, I think I will make my next story a series of vignettes (like my Villains!) piece, showing metahumans from other countries. Including Japan. We hadn't seen that yet, and I always like helping to expand a world.
Now, above, I saw a comment about universes. Do universes constrain imagination?
They do set rules and limits, so one could argue, yes, yes they do. BUT, as a new author, the chance to work with so many other talented people on a shared project is immensely satisfying! With the strengths of so many good storytellers and ideas, I think it's clear that a universe has a lot to offer.
Oh and, not all universes are really that constrained. I recently wrote an SRU story for another site, and let's see. The only constants in SRU are a crotchety old wizard who sells less-than-kosher magical items for his own amusement (and sometimes to educate. Sometimes)!
People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-of-effect...but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly...timey-wimey...stuff.
Not quite a vignette..
But maybe you'll enjoy the story of Japan's first Superhero, The Lightning!
People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-of-effect...but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly...timey-wimey...stuff.
For what it's worth, Melanie
Personally, I don't see the Center stories as being in any way "Superhero" stories. They are firmly grounded in the here and now. Nobody is wearing spandex/latex costumes, no JLA or any BS like that. You have a branch of the U.S. Govt. rounding up the affected kids for more or less benign purposes pitted against one or more branches of the Govt. who have less altrustic motives (think "7 Days In May"), plus several other groups organized by business or criminal interests. It's more like a sanctioned by the president paramilitary group against less-savory paramilitary groups. A black-ops government agency with specialized weapons. Serious writing as opposed to the tongue-firmly-in-cheek superhero stuff.
So I can't advise you on the caped squad stuff, which reminds me of a cornier version of the Whately Universe. The Center stories, however, combine a TG twist and teen angst with good old-fashioned spy thriller stories, with a dash of amazing abilities ala The Matrix.
Look on the bright side, no sparkly vampires. Yet.
I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.
Ooh...
I've been really, really meaning to check out some of the Center stories that have been posted lately (They look really interesting), but between writing and other minor stuff (Nothing major, just a lot of minor :-D) distracting me, I've put it off, but that sounds incredibly enticing :-D
Going to have to sit down this weekend and just put everyting else aside and read like I used to do.
Cheers!
One of my biggest flaws
as far as being a good reader is that I can almost never get into a story if the protagonist is lesbian/likes girls. As strange and limiting as that is, it isn't something I've found easy to get over, and there are very few stories that I've been able to read that had prominent lesbian relationships. When I started reading the first "Center" story, it seemed like that was the way the story was gonna go, and that combined with my dislike of the whole "swept off by the gov'ment for your own good" thing added up to me not being able to get into The Center. That's, of course, another reason I've been hesitant to start reading any of the Comics Retcon stories, as well; all superheroes have had a prominent lady-friend, or several, and if those characters appear in the same role I know I wouldn't be able to enjoy the romance aspects.
Stupid hang-ups.
Melanie E.
Mostly het
The main protagonist (Kris Keys) is now a het girl with a boyfriend. I can think of several other het relationships, even if the girl used to be a boy and the boy used to be a girl they are still boy/girl. I can't think of any gay/lesbian relationships off-hand, although I suspect there are likely some. So it's another example of real life, where any combination is possible, but the het combo is most likely.
Mind you, I'm going by memory here, so I might have some details of the various stories mixed up.
I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.
I do understand it's not for everyone,
and, to date, it does seem that the 'heroines' of the Retcon 'Verse do seem to have preferences you might find questionable. The most egregious examples are:
Big Trouble!: Doris (Giganta) is in a relationship with a girl much younger than her chronological age. This is a source of some issues for Doris early on, despite their physical ages being far closer.
The Succubus Files: Stefani (Purgatori) never wanted to be a girl, and was in a healthy relationship with Alyssa before her transformation. Somehow, they've managed to adapt, and have remained a couple.
Green With Envy/Enter the Copycat: Alison Scott is increasingly flagrant about her attraction to other females (and even attempted to seduce a girl in male guise using her shapeshifting abilities!).
Green With Envy: as a normal teenaged boy before he became a girl, Alena Scott still finds women attractive, and is leery about the idea of being in a relationship with a male. She is, however, not in a relationship.
When Lightning Strikes!: Ayumi was created by the imagination of a teenaged boy (it's complicated), and in her fictional history, had a girlfriend. She is not currently in a relationship.
Out of the Ashes: Megan (formerly Dan) has been forced to restart her life, but her love for Dolores remains, and the two are committed to their relationship.
Books of Magik: in Hunter's POV early on, she is developing an intense attraction for other girls. Illyana spent years as a teenaged boy, and we see, from his POV that she was initially attracted to Hunter. Obviously, their relationship has greatly changed. However, the story prominently features Johanna Constantine, who is a notorious womanizer (but is also an XY female, so...yeah).
Terra: Between a Rock...and another Rock: Terra definitely has an attraction to other girls, even though she has become one herself. This caused her relationship with Kara to fall apart, but there are indications that she may have found someone new...
Granted, that's a large chunk of characters. The rest are not involved in any relationships at this time, and, so far as I can recall, their orientation isn't clear just yet. The two notable standouts are:
A Ghost of a Chance: Maggie's version of The Spectre has a mortal identity as a female prostitute (which may be questionable to some readers, YMMV) with a male clientele. She claims to enjoy herself, and given how scary she is, I'm not going to argue with her!
Freedom: Another Dream/Free Spirit: Cathy hasn't been very clear about her orientation, since up until now, she felt too alienated from others to enter any sort of relationship, but her desire to one day bear a child is what got her into this mess in the first place. As her author, I'm fairly certain she means to have said child in the usual way, so she's certainly open to a relationship with a man.
So far, we have yet to have a major character who was either a gay m-to-f or a f-to-m (of any kind). I really do want to rectify that, to me, the Retcon stories may be about costumed heroes, but these heroes are real people, and I try to infuse deeper issues like sex identity into them. Gender identity and sexual orientation is a huge, complex mess in our society; most humans simplify the problem (or are programmed to do so) by assuming a male is a male and a female is a female, and that's that.
The larger issues of intersexed or TG persons who identify as a member of another gender (or occupy some grey area of gender identity) are not understood, and hotly debated. For example, the question of whether or not a m-to-f character who is sexually attracted to women a lesbian (as would be perceived) or heterosexual, but in a female body?
No one can give you an answer, everyone must reach their own personal conclusions.
Disclaimer: I don't claim to be any expert on any of these topics; I just write about them.
People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-of-effect...but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly...timey-wimey...stuff.
Ironic
I have the opposite problem. I was disappointed when the characters of The Center turned out to be predominantly heterosexual (Still love it though). So the Comic RetCon universe has been great for me because so many of the characters who are in relationships are lesbians or otherwise in a lesbian relationship for one reason or another.
I don't spurn all non-lesbian stories, fortunately, because there are far more straight stories than lesbian ones. But I always prefer the lesbian ones. I can identify much better with those.
Saless
"But it is also tradition that times *must* and always do change, my friend." - Eddie Murphy, Coming To America
I don't spurn them...
I just don't tend to be able to get into them. There have been a few exceptions -- Becoming Robin, Lillith Langtree's story about the boy named Sasha (can't remember the title,) and Changes, among others. It just usually takes something that really grabs me to keep me reading a story if the main character has lesbian or, in a few cases, even bi tendencies. It really is a bad hangup to have, and one that I've tried to get over, but because of the way I tend to read stories (imagining myself experiencing everything from the main character's perspective/within the main character's body) it makes it more difficult since lesbian relationships hold no attraction for me.
Ah, well. It's my loss. I know there are a ton of good, well written stories on this site that I miss out on because of that.
Melanie E.