Forums:
This appears to be a touchy subject for many within the community, with the general consensus divided into two main camps. The first assumes that underaged characters are acceptable because the scenario is purely fictional; no real person is being harmed. The opposing camp maintains that underaged characters should never be employed in transgendered fiction, as it might encourage the abuse of real life children. Needless to say, the issue isn't strictly black and white, there are numerous viewpoints between the two positions.
Speaking for myself, I lean toward the former, particularly since forced feminization is a classic theme in TG literature. The reader understands that the situation is pure fantasy and that the author does not advocate coercion in the real world. The same rationale could be applied to Aesop's Fables, Grimm's Fairy Tales or Greek Mythology. All of them depict horrendous acts, such as cannibalism, mutilation and even child murder, but we don't ban them because they're just stories at the end of the day.
Absurd Title?
Putting all TG stories in the category of forced-femme and the like seems outrageous to me. Coming-of-age stories seem to me to be more common -- perhaps even far more common -- for that age group, and since so many readers want to read about transitions at a time when one's body is more resilient to such physical changes, it'd be a real loss to throw out the baby with the bathwater here.
And I think it needs to be noted that TG seems to have limited relevance to the picture and title ("From the Spanking Files") that you showed. Graphically depicting punishment to children, whatever their gender status, would seem to be a separate issue.
Eric
The character's name is Justin
The character's name is Justin and the caption "His spanking was completely undeserved..." makes it clear that the image depicts a boy dressed in lingerie.
As you've pointed out, not all transgendered fiction can be classified under forced-fem or femdom, but a significant number of TG stories feature some form of coercion. There's considerable overlap into the coming-of-age sub-genre, as the protagonists are often depicted as being older juveniles.
From my perspective, a forced-fem story is more believable if the protagonist is an adolescent, as logically, an adult would be more difficult to manipulate.
I think you framed the question wrong.
TG Fiction does not mean, fiction about sex, nor does it mean, fiction about abuse. It can however include both, either or neither. TG Fiction is not Sexual Fantasy Fiction, that is only one sub category of TG Fiction. The question the way you worded it is too sweeping.
I take your point
...however, transgender fiction usually involves a cross-dressing/cross gendered character in the main role. Some people both inside and outside of this community consider it inappropriate to depict a minor in any transgendered scenario, regardless of whether the situation involves sex, coercion, physical/mental abuse etc.
Minor Point
For me, at least, what the children are being put through is where I would draw the line. For instance, there was a story several years ago about a women with a young boy that has started a relationship with an older man. Now there may be a bit of lolita in that relationship, both mother and child are of quite small stature. One of the reasons mom was interested in the man was that he was a plastic surgeon and was going to give her breast implants. That calls to my mind some of the anime and manga I've seen with young-looking Japanese girls with huge tits, certainly a strong fetish subcurrent.
But the plot of the story is that mom and boyfriend are going off to Vegas to do the surgery and they leave the boy with the man's older children. The boy, Kelly I believe, is also very small for his age. Being below puberty and having small and delicate features, along with his name being a bit vague as to sex, leads the older sons to believe he is a young girl. There are various subplots about broken glasses and Kelly's father having just got out of prison, but you get the idea. It is all nice and innocent, with lots of misunderstandings but nothing of a forced or sexual nature. Certainly there isn't anything to object to.
On the other hand, anytime "preteen" is accompanied by forced fem, dominance, diapers, and several other keywords, then it triggers a reaction in the reader. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, but those keywords are going to provoke a reaction. It is these stories that many of us don't want to see. For me personally, I just hit the ignore button and go on. One of the reasons my ignore file is so big.
Others, however, feel that these stories are "wrong" and should not be posted. There is kind of a cold war going there, that occasionally flares up and gets mighty warm.
Thing is, you can't please everybody. Erin and her minions do a pretty good job of keeping things under control here. It is the classic "free speech" argument, popular speech doesn't need protecting. I know I don't like certain types of stories and there are authors I completely ignore. But there are readers for every type of story, so as long as those stories are okay by Erin's pretty easygoing rules, I just put up and shut up. And yes, that can be hard to do sometimes.
I figure we all just have to agree to turn our heads sometimes and pretend we didn't see something. That's part of the price we pay for having BC and other sites. Getting people to be 100% happy just isn't going to happen.
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Good point
I think it also depends on what light the situation is presented in. For instance, is the story making any strides to show that a situation is abuse, or that the abuse is wrong? Does it clearly define a moral stance; either by the author, or through the characters? Or is it a complete glorification of the abuse; going so far as to sexualize it?
I honestly don't feel stories featuring underage children are fundamentally wrong. Look at some of the stories out there that have nothing to do with TG fiction. Lord of the Flies is a good classical example. Thematic elements of that story are horrific. It all serves to teach a point, but the abuse they render upon each other is appalling.
Stories begin where stories begin. If there is a clear reason as to why the character is younger than the age of consent, then why shouldn't the character be that age? I too, feel the OP's question is rather ambiguous.
I will concede that the author has a moral obligation to at least weigh this line of thought, as does the reader. But, it's the same argument as to whether guns kill people, or people kill people by sometimes using guns. If someone has it within themselves to abuse others, than they're already abusive in nature.
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
You make some interesting
You make some interesting points regarding the violent undertones pervading Lord of the Flies. We could also speculate on some of the more graphic scenes found in Stephen King's work (especially It, Pet Sematary and The Library Policeman).
I notice the question has ben reworded.
"Forced Fem rather then, any TG Fiction."
That is a more specific topic with clearer more defined moral questions.
However even with Forced Fem, there is a world of difference between stories about sexual exploitation vs other motivations, and stories that condone it or show it as wrong. Also forced gender change by acts of God, side step those questions and become purely about coping with the change, so are something else entirely, more of a "suddenly you are transgender" way of peeking at the whole wrong gender concept.
As for those who would apply it to any TG fiction, I say they are falling into the trap(or falsehood) of the idea that, Transgender Equals Sexual Pervert, or that Gender is all about having sex. Doing so just perpetuates the problem.
You could use the same
You could use the same argument to argue that you should never use underage characters in ANY fiction. I've written four stories where the main characters at the very least started out as under the age of 16. None of these characters are portrayed as being forced or abused with regard to their transition, because that's not the type of story I want to write, and isn't the type of story I want to read either. If that sort of story floats your boat, well, fine. But that sort of story doesn't define what TG fiction is, and never will.
Debs xxxx
Myself I do not like forced
Myself I do not like forced fem without repercussions on the perpetrators, that is just me. I really do not like harm coming from those who are weak. It was hard for me to write a story where a 17 year old woke up finding himself a girl.
I do not think that people should be against stories with underage forced fem as their theme. They can feel that they are sick and not like them one bit. They can make comments about how sick they think the stories are, but they should not try to ban them.
The forced fem could be an allegory. It could be a way a person finds the inner strength to be who they are. I know what we are writing is literature, not high literature in my case, but one cannot should not always take a story literally.
Some confusion here?
I did write a story where a 17-year-old wakes up as a girl. It is Somewhere Else Entirely and nobody in their right mind would call that forced fem.
Just because somebody might be underage, and just because somebody might not want to become a female, doesn't make what happens to them forced fem. Accidents happen, you know? Judging by some of the stories at this site, some really weird stuff happens to some of the hero/ines but that still doesn't make the story forced fem.
Forced fem, I think, can be rightly described as a story where the protagonist is changed from male to female by another person who deliberately forces the change on them and actively desires the result. I have written stories like that but not many. It is more interesting to me to consider other ways in which any change might happen.
Forced fem stories by themselves are not necessarily bad. It has been discussed here previously that, since many of us desire to be that which fate has decreed we are not, stories which provide ways which we can be made what we desire to be but without our consent have a certain appeal. Having the decision taken out of our hands allows us not to take responsibility for what needs to happen. I'll not say more than that, I'm no psychologist and there are better arguments elsewhere on the site.
What is bad is when those stories border on child abuse. In various jurisdictions reading such material can be considered illegal, though I note the examples above from classical literature. A judge might not make the same distinction.
Penny
A bit of digression
If a person is biologically male, not intersexed or any of the myriad other forms the human body might take, then changing that body is by definition forced fem because the body is being forced into a form that it is not natural.
As to the reason for the change I have always considered them to be either internal or external but always forced. If my mind is that of a female and my body is male then I am forcibly changing my own body to become female. If some form of accident occurs that changes my body I am forced by circumstances to become feminine. And finally if someone else changes my body I am forced by the power they have over me to make such changes. All of these can happen to children or adults but the last when it involves children is just one kind of abuse out of many that children endure.
Is it right? It depends on the the circumstance. After all any story about child abuse and there are many, think about episodes of Law and Order SVU, describe such happenings but in general most readers (but not all) prefer that the perpetrators get caught and punished. They get the thrill of the forced change but none of the guilt.
Just my thoughts
Commentator
Visit my Caption Blog: Dawn's Girly Site
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Re: Some confusion here
Well said, Penny. I couldn't say it any better than this.
Like Penny, I'm writing a story that involves a young man being turned into a female and finding herself in a new world. That story isn't forced femme, it is more accurately a story of transformation and transposition. The protagonist isn't harmed or abused by the change, perhaps somewhat shocked, but she will be moving through a new world, seeing things through the eyes of a young woman there.
I must state, though, that I am also writing a story that DOES involve forced femme, and I clearly state that in each piece. I've only managed to post two parts of that so far; I'm currently working on the next part, as well as three or four other stories/chapters.
The targets for that story are boys who are all minors, many of them somewhat small and cute if not pretty, although some of the boys will have a more physically male appearance. Although the story is about children being forced to present and live as females, I don't intend to have them come to serious physical harm, with the exception noted in the paragraph below this; there will be some physical punishments that take place, largely to ensure the child in question will obey the adults to avoid further punishment.
I do intend that the story will have one death of a child, perhaps two, but those will not be due to any physical actions taken by the adults. In the one instance, the death will be due to a medical occurrence arising from the medical history of the child or child's family.
I fully intend that story to end with the adults involved being charged with a long list of crimes related to their actions. To be honest, though, the story is only beginning, there is much, much more to be told before the children will be rescued from that place.
I suppose I could please some people and not write this, but when a story gets into my head, I have to set it down somewhere. This site allows us to post these stories, even stories like that one that involve physical, mental and emotional abuse of a minor.
To be honest, though, compared to some stuff I've seen on Fictionmania and elsewhere, I think my story will be pretty tame.
If this is not something that floats one's boat, one doesn't have to read the story at all. There are plenty of other stories here.
Hmmm... I'd say that forced femme isn't particularly liked here on BCTS, the two parts of that story have my lowest kudo counts. That won't stop me from posting other parts as my muse brings them to my attention, as I've said, I can't NOT tell the stories.
Yeah, yeah, I know I shouldn't use a double negative, but sometimes doing that is needed to make a point. LOL
What is forced fem?
I wrote a story call "Dumb Bet". It was about a boy who kind of had a crush on his sisters friend who lived next door, but she was a tomboy type and he wanted to see her in more feminine clothes. An ongoing discussion led to a contest, instigated by the neighbor girl with the stakes being that the loser would wear what ever the winner wanted for a week. Needless to say, the boy loses the contest.
His dad told him that as a man he should live up to his word.
The winner goes a little to far. Because he derided her hairstyle in his comments she insists that hair is included in the deal and give him a permanent. Mom who over saw the contest stepped in to mitigate the situation.
Mom help the boy show the girls that being girly isn't difficult or objectionable.
Of course to make it a story, circumstances extended the week. I didn't consider it forced fem, since the boy got himself into the situation and could have walked away at any time, but that would have gone against his personal code of honor.
One of the reader commented, "Anyone wanting to write a forced femme story should read this first, this was such a wonderful example of how to do it right."
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
Semantics
I think we are starting to have problems with how "forced" is defined. As Commentator pointed out, there are a myriad of ways a change may be forced. We reach the point where we trip over someone else's definition conflicting with ours. It truly becomes an eye of the beholder situation.
This is why we need sites like BC. Each of us is free to use whatever definition we prefer to write and read stories. Human nature dictates that not all of us are going to agree. One person's art is another person's porn. So we are back to reading and writing what we like and ignoring what we don't. You don't want my preferences deciding what is right (or good) vs what is wrong (or bad). Likewise I don't your choices deciding that either. Really, we all need to agree to disagree.
In the immortal words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Semantics
I loved her transgender sister Serena
Love, Andrea Lena
Hmmm
So I guess I should stop writing? Most of my stories seem to center around mid-to-late teens who either agree, maybe reluctantly to change or are changed by some event beyond their control. I like to write about this age group because it's a fun, awkward time for most people and it requires dealing with school and other social elements. Is that bad?
Melanie
no its not
teens like time growth and Wonder time for them. keep writing . seen others in what have try pin down topic of forced fem end of topic
my more along line party relating childed placed in harm way elder type explicit them for sexual gratification harm or gore on few ways some be thinking of it. then thare is those think light as hint of crossdress blastmiss well those do fail into few mindset shuond step away form that for sec. most how handel one safe. form its i bases for story writering limitless. even cartoonist and writer's seen this question pop up lot more and then.