Now that many of us have had a round or two of "votes" added to all or most of our stories I'm left with perplexing questions.
Since it appears this had to have been done mechnically and is not the work of some super-appreciative speed-reader I'm no longer troubled that two of what I consider to be my best stories (An Affair of the Harte and Carl's Eyes) received no votes.
What bothers me is the overall question -- Why?
Why -- when we post a particularly decent new story don't we see an uptick in the number of hits on our older stories. I'm in marketing in real life and if bandwagon marketing didn't work I would have gone out of business two decades ago. It's a technique I've used ad nauseum with great success. I've NEVER experienced reader spillover from a front page story that attracted positive comments and votes to my archived stories. This is counter-intuitive.
Why -- hasn't there been a "story fairy" who gets into our archived stories and reads her way through from top to bottom sprinkling them with comments and votes? In my long stint on BC I've had exactly one such fairy - Sephrena. I do get a rare comment on an old story -- which I cherish like that last unopened Christmas gift. Do readers simply ignore the basic fact that a story comes from an AUTHOR? Is there some sort of disconnect that makes them believe these stories and the characters in them just magically appear? Or, are they so paranoid that they think there is an added risk to making a comment or voting, above the "risk" of reading stories on this site?
To hell with all this whining; let's cut to the chase. Why can't 'enry 'iggins find me and make me into a lady?
Jill / Angela / Eliza
Comments
To Write, or Not to Write. Who we be Kiddin'?
Were I to get hyper over the comparatively few comments some of my renderings are blessed with or be reduced to walking the ramparts of my castle at night, pondering why my stories do no receive more votes, I'd never post here.
Reader do what readers do, just as writers do what writers do. Readers find a story they like, read it, then move on in search of something else that happens to strike their fancy. Tis the way of the world. I wish I did get more feed back from some of the people who read my stuff. It really does help both my writing and my story line. But the fact is, most folks do not feel the need to do so. Which is one of the reasons I personally don't get me knickers all in a twist when some of me verbiage and spellin' isn't quite up to the Queen's standards. I know this is wrong, its bad, its evil, its unprofessional, its blah, blah, blah. Oh well. Such is life.
As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing to see her, folks. Move on.
Nancy Cole
"You may be what you resolve to be."
T.J. Jackson
You Don't Ponder?
I feel very sorry for you. I can't imagine a set of circumstances where I wouldn't strive to get better with each story -- if not each written word. It doesn't seem possible to ignore whatever feedback I get in order to hone my craft in reaching my readers.
I absolutely love getting my knickers in a twist, and also twisting knickers, whichever comes first -- or second.
Knicker twister: It's nice to see a serial writer such as you admitting publicly that your writing uses more words than is required for clarity. Now if a few more of your ilk would kneel and confess their "verbiage" we could get on with the healing.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Becoming who people think you are...
Dear Angela,
I have no doubt that "Carl's Eyes" is an incredibly honest work. The truth (one of many) is that there is so many things being posted daily on this site, and others, sometimes it is difficult to take it all in.
I generally enjoy the tales you spin and have catalogue many for future reading (I either have no life...or too much of one...I'm not sure which it is...yet). :D
Anyway, chocolate can be so much more satisfying then anything else. Of course that does depend on the chocolate...and the anything else. :)
May Your Words Flow Like Water From The Well...
Kelly
Not Bloody Likely
YOU! A lady? We likes you just the way you are.
Joanne
Time is the enemy
Just that, time. There's just not enough hours in the day to read all the goodness here, much though a lot of us would wish to.
If we spent time reading, we wouldn't have any left to write, and that's the big problem. I'm supposed to be doing all kinds of other things than sitting in front of my pc, but my muse refuses to let me.
And... damn! Why did you have to mention chocolate? You sure know how to hit a sensitive spot. Now I've got to go and have a pig out.
Penny
Angela I'm worried ....
... in that I seem to be agreeing with you more and more. Does this mean that we may both be wrong?
I too have a marketing background and it is indeed very odd that there is no spillover factor here. I can't fathom it any more than I can understand why some stories are looked at (I don't know if they are read) more than others. There seems neither rhyme nor reason in it. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking because how does anyone know until one has at least read the first paragraph. Particularly, in my case, as the one that ticks all the right boxes as to what people say they like is the least read and the one that should be least regarded is the most frequently visited.
Mind you market research regarding people's desires is notoriously untrustworthy.
What is equally odd is the fact that there seems to be an unwritten law that comments can only be made within five days of the posting of a story. You mention having a rare comment on an old story. Lucky girl. In my experience they are rare indeed. New readers seem to cling to the belief that authors die within a week of writing and deem correctly that their executors will not be interested in any post mortem judgements.
It's a funny old world.
Comments on Old Stories
I leave them occasionally, but I feel it's a bit like that tree falling in an untenanted forest: no one's likely to hear/read it, so I don't do it very often. Ditto for writing the author, usually -- how much, say, does Jaye Michael really care now that in one of the Rigby Narratives (2004) chapters he switched the names of two of the characters about halfway through? (I posted that one publicly, actually; I assume it's still there, uncorrected. That was the case the last time I looked.)
Same, pretty much, with votes: if I enjoy a story from the period where votes were being recorded, I assume that I probably read and voted for it already unless I can say with reasonable certainty that I didn't look at it the first time around. Even there, I'm not sure I see the point of voting for it now; in effect, the election's already over. Whatever conclusion one might have drawn from the vote count when the story was actively being read isn't going to change now.
That's even truer of stories from before votes were being compiled. I don't really see the point of becoming, for example, the third vote for an old story; the vote count in that context clearly doesn't mean anything different with three votes than it did with two. (If it were to get up to 10 or 12 votes, readers might even conclude wrongly that voting was in force at the time and that practically nobody liked it.)
Eric
Does anyone?
YES! And, believe it or not, not just the authors (Every one I've talked to - okay, 6 is not a large sample - checks their old stories regularly for new comments.) I even check a few other authors' older stories for comments on stuff I've already read.
So, thank you for anyone you post a comment for.
I just love chocolate!
It helps get me through those writers block times that seem to increase with age. All right I lied, I use any excuse to eat chocolate - in fact, Iv'e just consumed two chocolate digestives with my coffee and already crave more.
As regards this votes thingie. I used to get hung up on votes and now I just wonder why anyone would want to vote for my lightweight stuff.
I think that votes are like a fine wine, lovely while you are drinking it, but just a fond memory when the bottle's empty.
Hugs
Sue
Lightweight, Sue?
Not even! Your stories are emotionally engaging and about stuff that's important, at least to me and a lot of other readers here. There's a big difference between being lightweight and avoiding being PONDEROUS, like so many "important" writers are, in a literary world that discounts female sensibilities as being less substantial than the posturing and bloviating of dickwads like Norman Mailer.
~~~hugs, a fan!
What borders on pure insanity?
Canada and Mexico.
.
Sue Brown Is Neither a Dickwad nor a Lightweight
She is one of the best on this site, which is currently teeming with excellent writers.
Now -- if we just had excellent readers to balance the equation.
The vast majority of those who comment are authors. One can expect an 80/20 dynamic, but here we seem to have 5% of the people making nearly all the comments.
That's not right.
Why am I carrying this skull? Something is indeed rotten in Denmark.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I'm also in Marketing ...
... by way of a long career in advertising, (copywriting, graphic design, web design, yadda yadda yadda) and it's one of those pesky marketing facts that you can do the best selling job on the planet, but if you don't have a plain enough call to action (or even a way for a prospect to contact you) clearly displayed, they won't be able to buy your product. Extending the analogy, if they don't have a clear link to a listing of your stories at the end of the story they just read, most won't know how to hunt for your other work -- and some will just be too lazy to try. *grin*
Just a thought.
Randalynn
Randalynn -- That's Brilliant
Could this be done by BC or should each writer direct readers to their author's page?
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Then Again - Randalynn Maybe BC Is Serving Fetish Lit
Many of the marketing techniques you and I use are based on the assumption of an inquisitive mind. This thread starts with the mention of two of my stories that didn't get votes by the vote fairy. There's even a follow up remark about Carl's Eyes.
You would think inquiring minds would want to take a look at that story.
Today's hit total for Carl's Eyes is 1 and for An Affair of the Harte is 0.
A strange thing happened to me a few weeks ago. I ran across a writer on the FM board who needed an editor. That writer turned out to be quite talented - much like you. I worked with him for several weeks on a lengthy story, going back and forth to the point where there were eight chapters in the can on a twelve chapter story.
Then nothing.
Finally I received an explanatory e-mail. He is a recovering sexaholic. He said writing TG literature was a lapse in his recovery and in his mind was feeding his addiction.
Perhaps those of us who are serious about this whole thing misunderstand what some of the readers and some of the authors are actually doing with this site.
I believe this site serves a higher purpose. I think there is much to gain through self-exploration and through examinations of the TG existence. I believe there's too much guilt and shame involved in something that should be as natural as mother's milk.
Others are just looking for a good wank.
To each her own.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I think this site serves readers ...
... whatever reasons they may have, whatever leads them here. If the "prospects" want the stories we write, then we should give them a way to get to them and let them do what they will once they find them. *grin* My guess is that they'll read 'em, if they liked the story that led them there.
As you say, to each her own. *smile*
Randa
Is hitting the thing?
I happened to hit both tales, but why was only one recorded. I know of several other authors who question the 'hitting' register. Hmmm...sounds like a mystery to me.
As for commenting, my personal preference is do to so through private e-mail (due to bad school experiences with public criticism). Both tales certainly are written in a superior style, but "Carl's Eyes" struck an emotional chord deep within me and, I'm such a sucker for that ole' emotional chord...Dminor of course! :)
Ever A Fan and Well Wisher...
Lil Kelly
Superior Style? Kelly Blake
That's me . . . Mutha Superior.
Carl's Eyes now registers three hits for today and An Affair of the Harte shows 1.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
It may not be obvious, but there IS a way
If you scroll to the top of the story you've just read - the "first" category" is the Author's name. Click that - is just like clicking on the author's name on the home page - takes you to a listing of all of the fiction posted by the author in reverse chronological order.
Annette
comment?
What would I possibly say?
If I liked the story, I vote for it, but beyond that, it seems presumptuous of me to offer my opinion. What did I like? What didn't I like? It's not my story. I presume YOU liked it, or you wouldn't have put it out here for us to read. My opinion about your creation isn't as important as your own, and since I'm not especially well-informed about the craft of writing, anything I'd say probably wouldn't be particularly well-informed, either.
I wouldn't dream of telling a proud new mother on the bus that her baby looks like a monkey -- and she already knows it's the most lovely thing in the world, so telling her that would just be redundant, too :)
I Get It Misty Meenor
My children are ages 18 through 35 and I never tire of hearing people tell me how handsome and beautiful they are.
Your mother, like mine, probably told you many times "If you can't say something nice about something, don't say anything at all."
The problem I have as a writer is that when you don't say anything I'm left to think there was nothing good to say -- and then skulk around "pondering".
When a reader tells me they appreciated something I did: characterization, setting, plot twist ... and it happens to be something I spent days trying to get right ... WOW -- what a rush.
That happens. Laika has an eerie ability to pick out just that one thing that I really worked at and make a nice comment about it. Read Liaka's comments and follow that example and you won't go wrong.
Hey -- there's a reason politicians kiss babies.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Give me a chance...
I've been away for a few days and missed several episodes of Bike and VC.
Once I'm up to date I'll add you to the list of authors to check out - then, as I did with both Bike and VC, I'll add a liberal dose of votes and a sprinkling of comments as I start reading the stories. Who cares if it was posted 2 years ago - and reaching the next chapter's just a case of clicking a link rather than waiting a week or two? I don't - besides which, comments serve three purposes:
a) They inform the author the story is still being read
b) They inform readers that they're not the only ones reading it several years late
c) In light of (b), let's them know it's still OK to comment - even though the last comment was made 18 months ago!
I suppose some people may be reluctant to comment on 'old' stories because they're mindful of some fora which discourage 'reopening' old threads. This isn't a forum - and the aforementioned 'rule' absolutely, positively does NOT apply here!
-oOo-
Oh, I'm almost up to date with Whateley Academy over on Crystal Hall - once I'm up to date with that I'll have even more time in the evenings to discover 'new' authors here and give them the shock of their lives by unexpectedly commenting on 'ancient' stories :)
-oOo-
As for the lyrics, how about these (a few lines later?):
"Oh so lovely sitting absolutely still. I would never budge 'till Spring crept over the windowsill!"
If only we could afford to follow that advice - we'd get extra reads on even more historic BCTS stories! :)
--Ben
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
Angela, I certainly don't
Angela,
I certainly don't know the answer to your question, but it is true. When something new posts, you might get a hit on an older story, or maybe even a few, but rarely votes and comments are just about unheard of.
A month or so ago, Joannebarberella had a blog entry similar to this and a number of people, myself included, responded and that led to a bunch of hits, votes and comments on older stories that were mentioned.
I thought about that at the time and wondered if what we need is to have a "Featured Story of the week" spot. My thought was that someone would have to manage this and that certain rules for fairness would have to be used. What I was thinking was something along the lines of.
1. Story had to be at least 1 year old.
2. An Author could not be repeated until ??? (number of weeks, or until all author's had been featured?)
I'm sure there may be other ideas on how to handle it, but in principle the idea is to somehow give front page access to old stories for a limited time, with rules in place to prevent it becoming a popularity contest. The length, whether it is a week or a day is certainly a debatable topic.
Just a thought.
Kristy
Retro BC
Is that not what is being done with the Retro-BC Classics being posted several times a week? Close enough for government work, anyway. ;-)
I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.
Yes, it is sort of, but
Yes, it is sort of, but those are really old BC stories being moved over to Top-Shelf. There are plenty of good stories there as well and this is important work too. But once all of the stories have been reformatted and moved, I don't think it will be continuing.
What I really was initially thinking was that the one thing that does bring people back to an old story, is a comment on that story. So my original thought was that it would be good if we could have a "review" or "comment" put on the front page to highlight the old story, with the link to the story.
That's probably too much work though, and runs the risk of favortism, which I was trying to avoid with my suggestions. I do think that anything we can do to provide a simple mechanism to highlight some of the wonderful stories that have managed to slip into the dark corners of archive status is a good thing.
Again, just throwing out some suggestions.
Kristy
No, They're Not...
Most of them were already on this site. ("You Bet" had two chapters on the old site, but all ten have been on this one since 2005 or so. Last stories on the Classic site were posted in 2004.)
As far as I can tell, "Big Closet Retro Classics" are stories on the current site that are reposted on the front page. (If there's a reason for the specific choices, I haven't found it: some were very popular when first posted, others not so much.) "Migrated from Classic BigCloset" is the category name for the old ones, and they've been much less frequent of late.
Eric
The Retro Classics are
A featured story or serial chapter of the week could be a good idea too, but I am seriously taxed with everything I am doing to really add anything else to what I am doing right now, so an editor that is willing to do it, should try.
=^.^=
BigCloset TopShelf
TGLibrary.com
tis sorta curious
Every now and then I see a whole row of hits and assume some sort of search machine. This time a mess of hits and votes, odd.
Some years back I found TG stories on the net, Tansformations the Other Sex from memory. Then FM, Saphire, Crystals and later here. As I found each I read all sorts to get a feel, some lovely, some fascinating, some disturbing, some downright nasty. I never commented on anything.
Then I thought I'd have a go and posted to FM, later here. That prompted me to also comment sometimes. Do unto others perhaps. This place is unlike any other and is largely free of the darker nastier stuff so relatively safe to read almost anything and a new post will usually bring a few hits on older things and... rarely a comment. Treasured and likely to bring a smile quicker than almost anything. You feel up and good and all Sally Field, you know...they like me. Well someone does anyway. The rest of the time you're sort of torn between pondering your own failings and flaws and inept use of language... nobody loves me, everybody... not sure there's a cure.
Yeah it's a personal thing this writing business. Here has a great collection and time is often a problem. I have this file, 'Quick reads' cough. It's getting... large. All sorts of things I want to read and yet haven't got to including some of the most popular series here. Maybe in my dotage assuming the brain and eyes still work. Sigh...pass the chocky Jill, I'll just get a glass of red. Now...oh yeah chapter 7 of Camp...
Kristina
Chocky??
I would pass it if I knew what it was . . . unless it was a joint, which I would Bogart.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
It's milk of magnesia
No wait, that's chalky.
.
.
Okay that was awful. I must be tired, I'm going to bed...
~~~ni-night, Laika
What borders on pure insanity?
Canada and Mexico.
.
Well, of course not, don't be ridiculous!
Well, of course not, don't be ridiculous!
No wait... That's Balki... never mind... ;-)
oh really dear
Chocky/Chockie/Chocolate, preferably dark... the flavour not the mood. If milk it has to be nutty, umm again that's the choc not the.. oh never mind.
Kristina
Just eu wite
You'll be sorry...
As to those very rare comments on old postings. They are rightfully cherished, as they are so rare.
While I don't question Professor 'iggins ability to teach the English language, I'm a bit surprised at how good a job he was able to do in teaching Ms. Doolittle to be a lady. But then, perhaps Mr. Shaw (being a man) didn't care how hard that might be as it was important to his story that Eliza become that lady. Sorry, I'll stop now. You happened to pick one of my favorites - either in the play or musical variety. Ahhh - thinking back to Uni, where I wrote a course paper on the two.
Some of us, who are less prolific have gotten some bandwagon reads... Though, I never did understand why they bothered with mine. (Every time I look at my first story posted here - I shudder. It really needed help.)
Annette