professionals in forced femme TG fiction

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one thing that always dumbfounds me in TG fiction is they seem to always have some doctor or nurse willing to perform extremly illegal treatments on unwilling subjects, or children. Where do they come from lol. where do you find such doctors or nurses willing to risk their licenses and their livelyhoods or prison

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There are real-world examples...

Puddintane's picture

Josef Mengele and Eduard Wirths, the Nazi Death Camp doctors come to mind, but there were many more.

Cheers,

Puddin'

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Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

i dont know if they can count

it is disgusting but what those doctors were doing in the camps wasnt considered illegal by the regimes they worked for. there was no danger of being reported and loosing their licenses over it.

Both, actually....

Puddintane's picture

...knew full well that what they were doing was wrong, and that they'd be punished for their actions if fond out. Wirths hanged himself when it looked like he might be captured, and Mengele took great pains to try and hide himself, succeeding so well that he was never found alive, as his friends and relatives conspired to conceal his whereabouts.

Horst Schumann, another of the Nazi doctors, was hidden for many years by Nazi sympathisers in the Middle East and Africa, served a relatively short prison sentence, and was released for "compassionate reasons," dying eleven years later. Carl Clauberg was captured by the Soviets, and imprisoned for a time, but was released in a prisoner exchange and set free by German authorities. Only after protests were lodged did the Germans re-arrest him, but he died in his cell of a heart attack before coming to trial.

Twenty-three other doctors who participated in human experimentation were tried at Nuremberg. Seven received death sentences, the rest were either acquitted or imprisoned.

The one who fell into Allied custody were examined by psychologists and found to be well-adjusted, perfectly normal men who loved their wives and children, were respected members of their communities, culturally literate and kind to small animals.

Hannah Arendt, a German Jew, attended the Nuremberg trials, and was surprised to discover the ordinariness of these "monsters." She coined a phrase, "the banality of evil" to express this feeling. These men, in a very real sense, are "us."

The Yale "Milgram Experiment" conducted by Stanley Milgram and Philip Zimbardo's infamous "Stanford Prison Experiment" essentially proved this, as the "experiments" quickly went out of control, with simulated or real cruelty and abuse appearing very rapidly in a large number of subjects, and acquiescence by many more.

In particular, a third of perfectly well-adjusted male college students in the Stanford study, which required physical contact with real "prisoners," turned out to have a sadistic streak in them just waiting to appear when given "permission" to exercise it. In the Yale study, two thirds of the men were willing to inflict the most painful and dangerous shocks to the simulated subject, despite the fact that the last switch was labelled "Fatal." Only one refused to take the simulated voltage beyond "dangerous" levels, although the victim, a trained actor, was screaming and begging for mercy.

As long as there's an authority figure present who gives a respectable veneer and lends plausibility to even the most dubious undertakings, human beings will "go along," even further what may seem to outsiders like perfectly monstrous purposes, because we're social beings who like to "fit in," to "obey the rules," and to behave like the people around us.

Cheers,

Puddin'

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Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

well when you put it that way

it seems at least inside the relm of probability if the price is high enough, the bad guys or bad girls have enough money to pay that they could find a doctor willing to violate his ethics and take the risk to perform an illegal SRS on an unwilling patient.

I was also thinking back when familes could have their disabled children locked up in assylms, and what being disabled meant back in the day. like being gay or not wanting to marry who the family approved of.

And that they could do the most horrible things in those places, beatings, electro shock treatment in sadistic ways to just cause pain. That wasnt that long ago either

Do not confuse fiction with historical reality

RAMI

Mengele and his associates were historical reality, where pseudo-scientific medical practices were employed by an evil state to obtain what they considered legitimate goals.

The doctors and nurses in TG stories are fictional creations who do not exist in real life. Even those who act in a somewhat normal manner, are not realistic examples.

Comparing the two is giving legitimacy to the evil work Nazi doctors did.

RAMI

RAMI

I don't think so...

Puddintane's picture

The experience of the Germans, a perfectly ordinary people, combined with recent psychological insights, lends credence to Hannah Arendt's early theory that "evil" is a perfectly ordinary thing, and that we're all capable of it.

That ought to frighten us, the notion that so many respectable doctors, dedicated to saving lives, sworn to an ethical code unbroken for thousands of years, could be so easily turned to cruel and hateful practice, whatever their ideals may have been before.

I certainly don't claim that any of these things were legitimate. I had relatives who died in the death camps, so have a personal axe to grind, but fantasising that we, and our friends and acquaintances, are immune to the Siren call of obedience to authority and "mob rule," is simple folly, and guarantees that this sort of cruelty will appear again and again, until we learn that almost everyone is vulnerable, and we must take pains to inoculate our social structures from every such tendency, and root it out whenever it appears.

Cheers,

Puddin'

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Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

Don't forget Butcher Brown

He did a lot of questionable castrations for anyone with the money, as well as implants and SRS. They finally got him for doing a fetish leg amputation (yeah there are some of those out there, do anything for a better parking space)and the amputee later died of an infection. That was not all that long ago.
His distinguished career:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ronald_Brown

The Surgery I wanted

I tried very hard to find someone to do a quick castration on me. I'd seen banding and also real open sack castration. It all seemed so simple to me. It was then that I discovered what Pussies most humans are. We seem to go into shock and die with relatively minor injuries compared to what I had seen farm animals absorb.

I did eventually find a Doc who did my initial Castration for $1000; legally.

Gwendolyn

You are right Gwen

Humans ARE pussies, thank God, it saves lives. We've had a total of six clients who have tried to castrate themselves, they all got one off (or nearly) before panicing, passing out or calling 911, one had both animal husbandry and medic training, managed to get one off and was doing fine, it all would have gone well except she lost the vein before she could tie it off and had to call 911.

I remember a pro football player describing in a column of the Sunday paper how his vasectomy went, big guy, bad-ass too, he said he was doing fine, master of his destiny until it came to tying something off. As he put it "you know when you go to tie anything off it takes a little slack in the rope, well this is the same, that slack has to come from somewhere and when the Dr pulled on mine I passed out" -okay sports fans how far do you think you'd get pulling some slack on your own giblets?
Like girls wanting to do electrology on their own upper lip. There's something in our motor programming that goes into a self preservation loop.
-Christine

Just a TG element

RAMI

They probably do not exist. They are just one of several TG story elements. Remember this is all fiction, and most anything goes.

A few weeks back there was a blog regarding various TG elements and story lines. I do not remember if this one was mentioned, but if not it could be added to the long list of ideas that were discussed.

The "'good' doctor/nurse" could join the "girl's school" or "helpful aunt" on the list.

RAMI

RAMI

your right

This is something that probably wont ever be done, but I assum now if the family is rich enough and put up millions to offer to a unethical doctor to perform an SRS on their son or husband, they probably would find one willing

When I started this blog I would have said no way, the risks were too high but with what Puddintane told me showed me that not all doctors have such high ethics, there are quite a few that are unethical toads. If the price is right they will violate the law and their ethics.

Various Realities

RAMI

Can money buy anything, I guess it can.

So I guess there is the possibility that in real life an unethical doctor who has been paid off would perform SRS surgery on an unwilling person. However, like all good conspiracy theories or situations, the more people involved the less likely that the truth can be hid.

To work, the doctor would either have to act alone, or pay off his staff. Rememeber loose lips sink ships, or illegal activity.

The person being transformed would have to be removed from circulation. A whole new identity would have to be established. The old identity would have to be terminated. The person being transformed would have to be brain washed into accepting the new identity.

While it can happen, it is very unlikely.

RAMI

RAMI

By strange coincidence...

Puddintane's picture

There was a news story tonight on World Focus about human trafficking, which is a slight variation on the forced feminisation stories which supposedly never happen.

You can see it on the Web:

http://worldfocus.org/blog/2009/06/16/global-economic-crisis...

Although most trafficked children are female, there is a large trade in boys as well, many of whom are purchased as sexual slaves as well as "traditional" labourers. One imagines that at least some are castrated, so as to retain a youthful appearance for a longer period, although some are evidently used in "snuff" films.

Cheers,

Puddin'
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/nov/27/childprotection.uk

http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/4825/

It would seem that Julie O's Angel may have a point... --- Puddin'

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Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

Too much ...

... talk about our faults, when there's so much to celebrate about men and women. Each have strengths and weaknesses, but ultimately, each sex is splendid in its own way, and together, we are more than the sum of our parts. Concentrating on the negative, I think, too often leads to rounds of accusation and counter-accusation, which ultimately poisons society and relationships.

Men and women are not the same, and should not be ashamed to be themselves:

Aishwara Rai

Aardvark

"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."

Mahatma Gandhi

"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."

Mahatma Gandhi

Without commenting on the male versus female issue directly...

Puddintane's picture

Discussions of ethics almost inevitably lead to examining differences between typical male and typical female ethical world-views.They are different, and consider differing data sets and definitions.

In short, what a typical woman might consider ethical may differ from what a typical man might, at least in detail.

Cheers,

Puddin'

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Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

Mmm

I think a lot of this blog has been deleted. My response was to the part that went poof, gone! Whatever. As for the subject in the blog, yeah, having nurses and doctors prescribe medications and perform operations that would likely never be done in RL is sort of par for the course in TG fiction. I've seen so much of it, I don't think twice about it anymore. Unscrupulous doctors and nurses are all a part of basic standard devices in TG for getting from guy to girl, like the SRU Wizard, curses, and "nanites." :)

I'm not against the portrayal of it because I doubt that anyone is advocating it -- or at least it hasn't corrupted me, I think. :) It's also pretty hard to write certain types of "realistic" TG fiction without recourse to operations and drugs. I especially sympathize with those who write crossdressing and "the operation" themes because there aren't that many clever ways to get around the usual time-honored plot variations. Sci-fi and fantasy are more open.

Regards,

Aardvark

"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."

Mahatma Gandhi

"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."

Mahatma Gandhi

No deletions

erin's picture

Nothing on this blog, or any other blog or forum, has been deleted by admin or moderators in most of a week. The last deletions were of duplicate posts and one by request of the poster. Some posts here may have been edited by posters before any replies to their posts were made.

There are some comments made on another thread that sort of intersect the subjects of this thread on a tangent. This may have caused some confusion as to which thread was being read. There's also a similar thread to this one on another forum on another website.

But no deletions here. Only three people have comment moderation permissions and I'm the only one of the three who has even read this thread. :)

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Okie-dokey, Erin

I guess I put it in the wrong blog. :(

I've been following both.

Aardvark

"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."

Mahatma Gandhi

"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."

Mahatma Gandhi

It is fiction

Surely the point about fiction is that it rarely deals with the mundane of normal life in which everyone religiously obeys the law.

Here on TV in the UK, we're used to seeing country villages with a murder rate higher than any US city; we're used to seeing old biddies crack crimes that leave experienced detectives bewildered; we're used to having a university town in which most of the dons are homicidal maniacs.

In short, most fiction usually goes beyond the norm of everyday life.

Maybe there aren't many unethical doctors, but they certainly make better fiction stories than the boring everyday ones.

The same people as we.

Probably, on the strength of any archaic holdovers, we consider doctors as the creatures differing from us.At bottom they-same people as well as we. Accordingly among them all spectrum of human characters is presented: from "sacred" to "bastard". Figuratively speaking, colour of their coats varies from white to black with all semitones and shades.
What strict laws would not regulate their activity ALWAYS there will be a person, ready to go on a crime.
More often motive of it is money. Sometimes pseudoscientific interest. Sometimes fanatical faith in rightness of the action.
Of course, in a real life very much and very much it is not a lot of such people. At all events much less, than in ff stories (on which pages they march almost battalions).
If to speak about serious surgical interventions, as for example SRS or breast implants then it is still more difficult. The clinic with the equipment and the personnel Is required.
There is nothing impossible-is possible and it. But "amount involved" increases repeatedly.
Thus it is possible to tell, that quantity of the doctors participating in ff in a real life much less, than it would would be desirable that authors of corresponding stories.
Medical education-very an expensive thing. Five-six years of heavy and difficult study. Then two years of practice. And only after that the-licence for independent practice.
Very few people will dare to risk to lose all it (and freedom of years on 25 in addition) for the sake of participation in someone's delirious plan.
Such is a reality, it is pleasant to someone or not.
P.S. Legions of criminals in the white coats armed with a syringe with an estrogen and a scalpel, with hands on an elbow in blood of victims ff we will leave on conscience of authors of these stories.

It is real

I wont give any information about it, but I have known people who have gone through forced gender changes, some as far as surgery and yes I mean that surgery mew. Believe it or not there are doctors that will perform the surgery for the right price. Money makes the world go round, and not just SRS to boys either, I've seen girls with forced gender changes as well mew. Maybe the surgery below isn't functional, but hormone shots definitely are. I wish I could say it wasn't real mew, but it is. I've seen it with my own two eyes, and I wish I hadn't... it changed me mew...

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I know who I am, I am me, and I like me ^^
Bisexual, transsexual, gamer girl, princess, furry that writes horror stories and proud ^^

I know who I am, I am me, and I like me ^^
Transgender, Gamer, Little, Princess, Therian and proud :D

they do make great villians though

laika's picture

The concept is so chilling, a doctor turning out to be the exact opposite of what a doctor is supposed to be, like a clown coming at you with a chainsaw. In some of these stories they're as twisted and evil as the people they're working for, they seem to do it in part because they LIKE it, and might want to sample the fruit of their modifications. I can't think of anything worse. How prevalent is it in reality? Probably not too prevalent, thank God, but one case would be too many, and if monsters like Mengele and Shiro Ishii (spelling?) exist there are probably are these small-time psycho doctors, last in their class at Podunk Medical University and doped to the gills on morphine. In the t.g. thrillers like The Protector series I'm always glad when these symbols of ultimate evil get their just deserts.
~~~hugs, Laika

.
"Government will only recognize 2 genders, male + female,
as assigned at birth-" (In his own words:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1lugbpMKDU

the doctor who used me as a bounce-toy

was a highly regard "pillar of the community". I wont ever know for sure how he slept at night, but I suspect he had some kind of rationalization ready - based on my memories, it involved me, a 7 year old with gender issues as a seducer who charmed him. There are also other ways a doctor could become involved - everything from being blackmailed to having physical threats against them or their own loved ones.

Dorothycolleen

DogSig.png

Bounce-toy?

What is a bounce-toy?

Doctors are people too... And that is the problem. They're as corruptible and as sadistic as everyone else.

Beyogi

like a sex toy,

but with less dignity and respect for me as a human being.

Dorothycolleen

DogSig.png

Sorry...

Ouch sorry...

I guess you'll only see the evil side of people when they can get away with it.