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It's not cheap if one wishes to be a woman. Besides the cosmetics, the price of feminine attire and that isn't counting the foundations. Priced any bras lately? As I was searching for data completely unrelated the cost of male to female transition popped up in my search. Not one to look a gift horse in the eye, of course I had to read it.
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/transgender-operations-hormo...
This article was written in 2016. Keep in mind prices vary with the doctors and psychiatrists. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but a couple years back when I researched the prices it ran close to a hundred thousand dollars to have it all done in the U.S.
What was I searching for before I was sidetracked? Prices of estradiol valerate. On that note, I hope those who are self administrating are doing under a doctor's care. I also hope your nurse or whoever showed you or told you how, to use two needles. One for drawing the estradiol and switch to the smaller one for the injection. My nurse caught it when my doctor didn't. Why did I switch to injection instead of staying on the pills? My estrogen levels were more than a third lower than the lowest reading for transition. Why wasn't it caught years ago? No one was taking the right test. Where should the numbers be?
Estradiol 100pg/ml is too low. I was way below that. Transitioning ideal is 300pg/ml to 700pg/ml, receptor sat. is maxed around 300pg/ml in vitro, in humans this is theorized to be much higher than 300pg/ml. Keep in mind GG can approach 8000pg/ml in some circumstances. The concept estrogen may cause heart attacks, blood clots, strokes, etc. may or may not be the reason someone who was on estrogen supplement had those problems.
Thirty years ago in my research I found Tgirls were ordering Perlutal from Brazil. It's birth control injection and artificial estrogen. There are several trade names for it but I caution everyone against ordering overseas. Once upon a time one received what they ordered. Now it's a con game. One never knows if they are getting the real deal or floor sweepings. Provided they receive anything in the first place. I've ordered a lot of meds overseas in my time. Now? No way in hell I consider overseas meds the same as bootleg liquor. It can kill you. Also beware of the sites promising prescription meds with no prescription needed. Don't know what they are packaging but I can tell you their prices are twice or more than a thousand percent markup over what ones cost with a Dr. Prescription.
Doctors are beginning to understand despite what politicians and fear mongers are saying, tansgender is not a disease nor is it a mental illness. Some doctors will start HRT if the patient will sign an "Informed Consent" acknowledging they understand all the risks and some changes may not be reversible. One will never know unless they ask.
Hugs People
Barbie
Your life is yours and yours alone. You may give that authority away but no one can take it unless you let them.
Comments
Circumstances
Sometime things can prevent getting a Doctor to give us "permission" to get the meds we need. Besides the issues of bigotry, even among medical professionals, there are a number of reasons why some people go the route of self-medication.
I moved to self-medication when I couldn't get to see my regular doctor due to an issue in their billing, double charging me for an office visit. I refused to pay the bill twice after showing the receipt and credit card statement proving that I paid, and they wouldn't book me a new appointment until I paid. It's not much, but I refuse to be pushed around and bullied into being conned out of a dime I don't actually owe. They knew I was over a barrel because my endocrinologist retired during the lockdown, I was running out of meds, and I needed a new referral... so they thought they could take advantage of my desperation by holding access to my meds for ransom.
That's scummy... especially for a doctor's office that proclaims to be so understanding and sensitive to TG needs.
So in desperation I ordered from inhousepharmacy.vu in September. I had to wait 6 weeks to get it, but what I got was the genuine article. I'm no shill for them... they're expensive... but when you consider the costs of office visits 2-4 times a year on top of the cost of getting the meds from a local pharmacy, my total cost of maintenance medication went down by 10%.
My situation is unique, but there are a million variations on it that can explain why someone might go the route of self-medicating. Since pharmacies in the US won't sell meds without a doctor giving us "permission" to be women, it's a viable alternative and completely legal.
Explain to my why I should need a doctor's permission to buy estradiol in the first place. It's not like you can get high with it... (though having the right hormone balance does make me feel wonderful!) and I can overdose on cold medication or Tylenol... so why do I need some authority telling me what I can and can't buy?
Just another perspective.
Hugs,
Roberta
Don't Give Up
The lest expensive, most understanding, and most willing to write prescriptions was a women's abortion clinic. The most expensive was a clinic that advertised they were gender friendly. One VA washed me out of their system as I aged out. Another VA is bending over backward to keep me in their system. I have ordered from Mexico, Turkey, Brazil, India, Thailand, etc. Have to know the suppliers but I trust a couple of them in India. I just don't need them as I can purchase my hormones cheaper in the U.S. I know, hard to believe.
In Elk City her partner in the clinic is totally against T, he came pretty close to calling me anything but human. She and her staff are some of my favorites I'll be dropping in to see her next week. Hit my share of potholes on this journey. Last week told my counselor, yes even I have one, I wouldn't change a thing if I had this life to do over again. God gave me a double blessing of boy, girl. Of the total population we are the smallest minority.
And I get to converse with some of the greatest people on this space ship we call earth. What more could a person want.
Hugs Roberta
Barbie
Life is meant to be lived, not worn until it's worn out.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
I know how you feel……..
I have several doctors in the family, my father-in-law was a surgeon (he passed several years ago), and two of my brothers-in-law are doctors. The oldest of the two is a bigot, and although he is always nice to me, he and his wife opted not to invite my spouse - his own sister - and me to their daughter’s wedding about a year ago. From what I understand, his wife’s comment was, “Who would want that at their wedding.”
Apparently, she is worse than him and he wouldn’t stand up to her. For understandable reasons, we don’t speak to them anymore.
The younger brother is wonderful to both his sister and me.
However, neither is my doctor. When I decided to transition, I found a doctor who had experience with transgender patients - and who wasn’t a relative. I sat through too many dinners where the topic of conversation was a patient, and I had no desire to be the topic of conversation at the table - at least anymore than was inevitable anyway.
I am lucky enough to live in the Capital District region of New York, which is noted as one of the best areas for transgender care. I have a good primary care physician, and my endocrinologist is the head of department at a very good teaching hospital. If you don’t mind dealing with an occasional Med student, he is wonderful - as is everyone I have dealt with there.
The point is that you have to find the right doctor, and staff.
As to the billing issue, I recently changed dermatologists due to a similar issue. I gave them a credit card to cover my co-pay during my first visit, as well my insurance information. Additionally, I completed the usual information packet that any doctor’s office requires - clearing indicating my legal gender as female. I did make a notation that I was transgender, male to female, as it occasionally has a bearing medically.
I received a call from my health insurance provider sometime later that the dermatologist’s office had submitted incorrectly and that I needed to contact them and have them resubmit. You see, they had indicated my gender as Male - and my health provider needed it corrected. As they are aware of my status due to a conversation I had with them a few years prior as to why a female patient needed a PSA test, they knew enough to let me know what the issue was. So I called the dermatologists office and explained the error they made and asked them to resubmit. Instead of doing so, they simply charged my credit card for over $600.
When my statement came in, I called them to find out what it was for and was told I needed to speak with their billing office. I tried repeatedly to get through to them, and left several messages for the office manager to call me. I even asked them to send me the information so that I could submit for repayment from my insurance, which I never received. I never received a call back - that is until they decided to call me to tell me I needed to make another appointment for my quarterly check. You see, I have melanoma and have to have a full body scan every three months.
I told them I wouldn’t take my dog to see them, and that I had made a formal complaint to New York State regarding their practice and had found another doctor. My new doctor is much nicer, came well recommended, and I did actually complain to the state. You see, in NY it is illegal to refuse treatment to a patient due to gender identity, and what they did is illegal and considered to be highly prejudiced.
You need to find a better doctor.
D. Eden
“Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir.”
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
Lucky I suppose???
Pretty sure I would not take this path again, but then who knows? Had it not been for the DSM and the psych meds, and the egocentric psych "professionals", either I would not have become a woman, or perhaps I would not be alive?
Can't say one way or the other.
Gwen
Survivor
Gwen, it's because you are a survivor. There is a story on here that pretty well runs the way your life seemed to. No support from family, friends, or school. Yet she learned all there is to know about mechanics, built her own motor home, got her educations, and left while her family was supposedly attending her high school graduation ceremony. The song the author included with the story is "I'm Still Standing".
Isn't that you Gwen. I've read your posts and hon you have traveled some hard roads. Lady, you're a survivor and you're still standing.
Hugs Sweety
Barb
Life is a gift, cherish it.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
It's more than monetary cost
In theory, money is a replaceable item, sadly the social cost or career are the factors that make it too expensive for some to take the path we extremists take, by extreme, I mean going the whole hog having your plumbing sorted. When I ran a telephone helpline, many moons ago, I used to ask callers who were considering transitioning, to think about what they would gain, which is all speculative, and what they might lose, which is real. If they were in doubt, not to do it until they were sure.
Unfortunately, gender dysphoria is never a priority with healthcare providers, even though its costs are relatively small compared to someone with a major physical problem eg heart surgery and the majority of cases treated are successful, insofar as the patient goes on with their lives happier than before. In the Uk that can all be on the NHS though it is agonisingly slow and worse since Covid.
The social costs can be huge, you can lose, family, friends, colleagues and it's all fine and well to suggest they weren't real friends and so on, but it still has an effect on the individual. None of us choose to be transgender but the world still sees us as a bizarre and delusional micro-minority. Perhaps we are, but we're still human beings with as much right to life and happiness as anyone else.
Angharad
I sometimes feel I would like
I sometimes feel I would like to, but as you said Angharad, the cost is too high. I am a lot happier when I am presenting as female. I can imagine that if I was to do it for a few months it would seem "ordinary" I would have lost my job and some family and friends.
I suppose it depends on the degree of dysphoria .
Ideally, I could move away for 6 months and live as a woman to see if it was right for me. I'm around 5ft 9" so within the height range of average woman. Even if it was I'm not sure I'd go much further than breast implants.
I did read about a cosmetic vagina, where they do everything except make the hole? Less traumatic and faster recovery, obviously no vaginal sex though.
Leeanna
I can only agree...
Although I wouldn't use the term extremist for myself. Yes, I "went the whole hog" but that was a necessity to have my outside match my chemistry. I really like your thinking and the questions you asked. I am lucky in having gotten to know you personally, and you once said very profound words, which still stay with me to this day. I've also been asking myself, am I willing to age as woman?
Yes, I've lost family, some of them I cared about. I lost very few friends, though.
As for the NHS... well, I try to keep my past away from any data stored by the NHS. With their track record, I wouldn't trust them not to sell or 'losing' that data to some nefarious entitity, doing god knows what with it.
Anyway, enough ranting.
Saphira
--
>> There is not one single truth out there. <<
What is the cost NOT to be a Woman
I wonder if anyone has put a cost on the opposite. . .living in the world as trans without doing the necessary to meet the needs of their gender dysphoria.
I'm sure those costs would far exceed $100,000.
The average cost of a suicide is over $1.3M. https://www.sprc.org/about-suicide/costs
Our government is not cost-efficient and probably never will be given how much easier it is t be a demagogue.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Data Asserts Both Outcomes
I've read information that indicates the suicide rate both goes up and goes down, depending upon the bias of the source publishers. It is disappointing to find such bias, even outright lies from "The Heritage Organization". They claim to be a Faith based group, yet their lies are obvious. Finally, suicidal Ideation is gone for me, and it is unsettling to read material like that.
Sorry
The tendendcy toward discounting the prevelamcy of suicides in our community is strictly coming from the myriad of disinformation provided by organizations like the Famiily Research Council and such.
Of course 'our' perspective is biased - it's nearly impossible to be objective when I daresay our community is inhabited by folks who know someone and/or have thought about it seriously ourselves. We might be biased because more and more of us find ourselves increasingly with tragically diminished hope as ideologues are being elected that would be happy to see us go, or to paraphrase Goldfinger, "No. Ms. DMaggio. I expect you to die."
I thought about it throughout college.
I had three internet friends succeed.
While not transgender, my own sister tried without success thankfully. Her life was filled withh arsh criticism and worse by our father. Both of us were sexually assaulted by him and an uncle - a commonality that many of us share as well; an under-reported result of punitive abuse to trans girls and even trans boys.
The information from 'our' side might be biased, but it's understandably fueled by an increasing sense of self-preservation. "Their" side is fueled almost entirely by hatred itself fueled by unflinching loyalty to their faith. Sorry, but there's NO duality here. We succeed and they become uncomfortable, They succeed and we either succumb to hiding or death!
Love, Andrea Lena
If Only They Were Loyal to Their Faith
Every "faith" has a form of the Golden Rule - the second great commandment. Yet. . ..
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
The Golden Rule
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
They rationalize it by saying, "If I were sinning, I would want you to make me stop." Of course, they never sin.
The true hypocrisy is that their faith teaches to first see to your own sin before bothering about your neighbor's... but they won't see their own sin of pride. They think themselves sinless and thus free to condemn others, which isn't what their faith teach at all.
This before even addressing whether or not being TG is a sin in any faith... which it isn't. They use excuses like "pretending to be a woman" when the fact is that we were pretending to be men... and thus were sinning before transition... going against God's intent.
God doesn't make mistakes. He made us this way for a purpose. Failing to follow it is the sin. (but then, you won't see me condemning anyone for still being closeted... because that would make me the hypocrite)
Hugs,
Roberta
I thought it was...
...do unto others but get it in first. Sorry, I am sceptical of all religions as they've caused more wars and suffering than great plagues and while I respect the right of others to deceive themselves if it pleases them, I find it insulting that so many still impose their rules and values on others without providing a shred of evidence of the existence of their gods. Religions are 99% political and 1% spiritual.
Angharad
Your Beliefs Are Noted
But. . .can you prove that God doesn't exist?
We would be lost without rules and values. It's too bad that many use those needs as a basis to assume power.
I would go a bit further than you and state that religions are 99.99% political and .01% spiritual.
I wonder if when you were on that helpline if you realized how spiritual you were acting. Thank you for that.
JIll
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
God Loves You
Is the last thing anyone who is suffering wants to hear. If God loved them they wouldn't be suffering. Thus it is the thing I never bring up when listening to those who are thinking of suicide. Sadly I need to be a lot closer than emails, telephone, and messengers to get a feeling when they have stopped thinking of suicide and started contemplating suicide. My best advantage is I give them something they normally have never had in their life, I care.
Was I the one responsible when they finally get a grip on life? Not even in the smallest measure. Without a doubt it was God or the Angels but then each one is allowed to believe or not believe. It's faith and believing in what one can't hold in their hand. I know God is real, I couldn't stop believing if I tried or if I was told I would die if I didn't renounce "Her". Do I believe in religion? Not a drop but it's a tool to teach them faith and come to know God. Both Jill and Angharad are right, it's a political tool designed from the very beginning to enslave and control the masses. No one has to succumb to it.
Why do I switch genders at times when addressing God? Because He, She is both and neither and "I Am" is not going to be understood by the masses. I wonder if God allows transgender to be because they are a more complete likeness of Him, Her? I'll ask next time I talk with Him, Her and He is talking back rather than giving me hints to my questions.
Believe, don't believe, we are allowed that choice.
Barbie
Life is a precious gift.
Think humans are the pinnacle of life? Not even close. We are good at ending life but can't create it.
https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-just-captured-the-ac...
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
One Last Comment
Before this completely disappears, what would be the cost to allow those who know they have the wrong body to begin transition before puberty? Hormones for life? But a lot of surgery would not be needed. Possibly no facial, no breast augmentation. Not all know but some of us did. How many suicides would be prevented if they didn't need to suffer growing up as male and then switching?
First the attitude of society has to change and that's a long way off. Sadly hundreds will die every year while waiting. Isn't that what society is wanting? One less abomination.
Hugs people
Barb
Life is a gift, don't waste it.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Adolescent Transition
The subject of transitioning as teens is fraught with a lot of emotion. Many people believe that children, even up to age 17, cannot know what is best for them. Even in places like California where progressive policies rule a 17-year-old isn't considered able to consent to sex. In many ways, as a mother myself, I can agree with that. My boys are wonderful, but when they were still in school they made very poor decisions and couldn't see 'the big picture' of the rest of their lives and how their actions then would affect their lives now. Even at 18 and 20 they still have difficulty seeing that their immediate decisions have long-term ramifications, and they're pretty intelligent young men.
Transition is huge. It has life-altering effects that cannot be foreseen. Many people believe that letting kids make that big of a decision is neglect, no different than letting them decide to do drugs, smoke, or drink. Are they right? It is letting them take drugs... just under a doctor's care.
Personally, as a mother, if either of my boys had wanted to transition as a child, I and my co-wives would have to weigh their decision carefully, knowing that if we made the wrong choice it would be our fault that they would suffer because of it. (because as their mother its my job, not anyone else's, to see to it that they're kept safe and guided to become happy and healthy adults... and no one can take that responsibility away from me... not even them) In the end, it would have come down to my and my co-wives' judgement if they were doing what was really what they needed to be happy or if someone else was pushing them to it... possibly even me without realizing it.
It's a very personal situation... and every one is unique. That's why I believe it inevitably comes down to a personal decision that the parents and child must make with very careful consideration. Authorities should have no say in the issue... one way or the other. (either forcing the parents to let their child transition against the parent's wishes or preventing it) Parents have a right to raise their children how they see fit, so long as it's not physically abusive. Many people might think that how I was raised was cruel... my own parents making me grow up male... but if I'd had my way, my sons wouldn't exist... and I'd rather die than lose them.
Sadly, many people commit suicide every day... and only a fraction of those are TG. My own nephew, a young man of 22 who by all rights had everything going for him, (healthy, attractive, good career, loving family, a girlfriend who was as close as a sister to his siblings) took his own life 6 weeks ago... and we'll never know why. Yes, TG suicide is higher per capita than with other groups, but in the end we're not a group... we're individuals. Every death is a loss and every suicide is a tragedy. Any that are preventable should be... but how do you know which ones are like me... someone that needs to grow up male (or female) so they can have a family... and which ones are those that won't grow up at all because the pain is unbearable and take their own lives?
Unfortunately, it's a big and messy situation and no one solution is perfect or always what it right. We cannot see all ends.
Hugs,
Roberta
Everyday of our life is a choice
Would I have been happier if I started transition at age five? It's an impossible question to answer because I didn't take that path, Not because I didn't want to but the choice wasn't there no matter how much I wanted it. Would I have taken it if I had that choice? In a heartbeat.
Should children under eighteen be denied the choice because they are too young and not mature enough to make a lifetime decision? As was put forth they are individuals. There is no one size fits all. There are people sixty years old who aren't mature enough to make decisions of life changing events. Life doesn't have a right and wrong answer to every question. The question would I regret not having children, marrying the most intelligent, beautiful, sweetest, loving girl in the world made a difference? If I had taken the other path I wouldn't have ever known.
I believe I am the most blessed person on this earth. Growing up on a farm, marrying the girl I grew up with and played with, loving parents..., the list is endless. I've seen and experienced things most would find impossible to believe, miracles if one must.
Would the other choice in life been as good? Again, impossible question.
No all kids aren't mature enough to decide but there are those who are. So we deny them because we are afraid. Afraid of making a mistake. I've made more than my fair share and I'll make some more before I'm allowed to go home. I own nothing of this earthly plain. Want to know who really owns everything? Stop paying taxes and one will find who the real owners are. I digress.
Hugs Roberta
Barb
Life is meant to be lived not worn until it's worn out.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
...if one wishes to be a
...if one wishes to be a woman ???
really ? like some sort of a hobby?
why not just wish to be something cheaper like a train spotter or a blogger
アンその他
No one "Wishes" to be trans
In all my years never have I ever heard any trans say, "I wish there were more like us." Nor do we ourselves wish to be the opposite gender on our birth certificate. We were born with the brain, drive, emotions opposite of what is on that BC. What we wish is balance in mind and body the same as the majority of the population
Yes I wish I was a GG the same as most other girls since I was five years old. It's not like wishing for a Barbie Doll, or a new dress, things that will pass with time. I was born a female, unfortunately Dr. Shadid didn't agree so he marked M.
If someone wishes they were a dog, cat, airplane, or Wonder Woman, rich, that is wishing.
Unless one is trans they will never truly understand what it is to have the mind and thoughts of one gender and be flagged as the other gender. I dare say even most trans don't truly grasp the situation. They only know it's wrong and they want it right. If our wishes are just wishes, why are so many ostracized and why do so many kill themselves?
Hugs Ann
Barb
Life is a gift. Suicide is tossing it back in God's face telling Her it wasn't good enough.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl