I edited the LGBT Wikipedia site to emphasise that LGB references were for Sexuality whereas TIQ were primarily for Gender. The amendments lasted nearly 20 minutes before they were removed. I'll try to rephrase it. If it is removed again (and again) perhaps I'll begin to think perhaps there are those who don't like the Sexuality / Gender split to be emphasised.
Comments welcome.
Thanks
Alys P
LGB v TIQ
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Comments
I don't know what
TIQ stands for? Language is a consensus enterprise, no one person can dictate the meaning of words It is why languages evolve.
TIQ....
T - Transgender/Transexual depending on preference!!
I - Intersex
Q - Questioning (although some people use Q for Queer/GenderQueer (whatever that might mean differently than Gay)?!
Q also goes with gender fluid
Q also goes with gender fluid iirc
TIQ....
T could also be transvestite, what we often refer to as crossdressers.
Just because they may not want to change themselves doesn't exclude them entirely from our ranks. Some are only in it for the way the clothing looks and being able to go out and have a bit of fun, with no sexual component present. Some do it for sexual reasons.
As long as the person isn't being an out and out ass, or actually hurting people, how one dresses in public is their choice.
Questioning is what humans do...
...so I guess that means everyone in the world is TIQ.
Who on earth decided that questioning has anything to do with gender definition? They could have used Thoughtful instead, then we’d all be TITs!
No surprise that Wiki threw this out and should continue to do so for such a meaningless acronym. Nothing to do with Gender/Sexuality.
Trouble. My Normal State
A bunch of people got on Facebook, sort of suggesting to me that LGBT is a superior state and everyone else is somehow less than.
As far as I am concerned, Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals, Transexuals, Intersex, Queer, and Heterosexuals are all equal. The firestorm that causes is amazing to me. The LGBT folk got all yelly at me, and one Gay friend, unfriended me. My backup position is that none of it makes two shits. They have not recognized Celibate. Should I be all teary about it?
Almost right, Gwen
Q isn't for Queer, since that is the same as Gay. Q is for Questioning, or so I was led to believe.
Mind you, what they are questioning is yet to be discovered. I question everything. If you don't know, you don't know.
Penny
There Were Two Q's...
...when that group of initials became prominent, at least in San Francisco media.
As I understood it, Q for queer had been repurposed to include (or comprise) those who didn't identify with other descriptions. That included "gender queer", a category for those who don't identify as male or female.
The second Q was for questioning, referring to sexual preference or inclination. Wasn't clear to me whether or not gender presentation was included in that.
Eric
Celibate etc
If one brings in Celibate, then implicitly the other end of that spectrum of Sexual Frequency is Pansexual or maybe Nymphomaniac & Satyriasis.
It entertains me (sometimes) that the LGBTIQZYX? people prevent the completion of the spectrum with both Heterosexual and Cisgender (which are available as unused letters).
Say it if I am wrong.
I've gotten the idea that many/most post op,T folk, since they (me included) actually have no natural sex organs, really have little or no sexual desire. That is one of the most pleasant aspects of my life, to me. Most people, including regular people, somehow think that post op T folk have a sexual orientation. As far as I am concerned this is not true, and maybe not true for most of us. So, I refer to myself as Intentionally Celibate (this has nothing to do with religion).
Most of life is fun, as long as the rels leave me alone.
Not too thrilled
As a trans person, I'm not too thrilled about being lumped in with the LBG folk. That's a whole 'nother spectrum with baggage to be handled. I'm way to busy juggling my variant gender baggage to take time to figure out what to do with variant sexual orientation baggage especially since it doesn't apply to me.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
Trans &/¬ LGB
It may be anecdote or even anecdata but the generally accepted view is that the percentage of L or G or B in the ordinary population ie 3-4-5-6% (depending on source) is much the same in the Trans population.
That is to say 'there is NO relationship in general terms between being T or LGB.
Re: Trans &/& not LGB
I'm going to post a quote from "Size Of The Transgender Population And Why It Matters" by Paul Dirks here.
" "do you consider yourself transgender?” This was precisely the question that many states chose to add as an optional module to the BRFSS (Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System) national survey in the United States.
From this the Williams Institute concluded a prevalence of transgender identity in the United States of 0.6% in 2016."
Paul goes on to state that the number given (0.6%) is very likely to be statistically accurate, based on several similar studies.
He also states the following, and this is I believe where you get your 3/4/5/6% values for T folks. I will quote again:
"those two categories were distinct in the original study the numbers are being pulled from, that of Clark (2014), where the transgender group was 1.2% and those unsure of their gender was 2.5%. I can only surmise that someone has equated “unsure of gender” and “gender diverse”, added this number to the “transgender number”, and then rounded up from 3.7 to 4%."
The whole article is here: http://womanmeanssomething.com/size-of-the-transgender-popul...
The last few paragraphs, though, get into the bathroom debate. Some of it is ewww, some just head-shaking, but it leaves me with the feeling that he wouldn't be averse to denying pre-op or non-op MtFs access to the bathroom of their chosen gender.
He doesn't even touch on the issue of safety with presenting as female and entering male washrooms, which is a far more likely danger to the MtF trans person than the MtF person is likely to be to women while wishing to use a washroom for a few brief minutes.
The last sentence scares me a lot, it brushes aside the rights of the MtF trans person as if we were gutter trash.
Sorry for the rant on the last bit here, but it does worry me.
Many who are in the closet...
...would answer No to that question.
There are no meaningful figures about this. My own belief is that a large proportion of males exhibit some form of T to a greater or lesser degree but most would deny it.
And this is why I try to stay out of "gender politics"....
No matter how supportive you are of the community, no matter what you think, say, or do, you're wrong.
As far as I am concerned
I am a woman. Full stop ... or no, I am a lesbian woman, so LGB and not T?
Thus is all serious BS. Why not include S (for short), O (for overweight) and class T for tall? Then Include D for deaf or dumb? The moment we start categorising ourselves we forget, that every human being is an individual. Classifications are for sheep or other herd animals, which I am not. But maybe that is why I cannot get my head around this discussion.
As it was I went through a (short) Crossdressing period, when I was still too timid to own up to what I really thought: that I was a woman in the wrong body.
I have come to accept, that the body wasn't exactly wrong, as it enables me to do my work still and in the beginnig, gave me the physical strenght, to hold my own in the music industry. I still am stronger than most women I know, especialy at my age. But with the hormones I got another ability enhanced: multitasking. That makes planning RE sytsems so much easier (and I won't lose it due to menopause). Estrogen also makes women better programmers (multitasking helps a lot there). And finally I enjoy sex with a woman more than I ever did with that obsolete appendage between my legs. Have fun classing that, I'll just stay a human individual, admittedly now with breasts and without ....... and definitely still into women.
Monique S
They're Not Like Us!!!!
That's how it starts...
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
I can sorta understand why
I can sorta understand why LGBTI+ is all lumped together, but I never really agreed with the lumping. LGB is about who you have sex with, and TI+ is what you are.
You may need a good reference to back up your comments
In order to get the edit change to stay.
The Wiki people are pretty diligent about scrubbing out statements of opinion.
Gillian Cairns
Wiki Piki
Inconveniently, the references are primarily other wiki articles and even Wiki doesn't like incest!!!
AP